The Student Room Group

Rankings dilemma - advice please

Hi :smile:

I'm currently in year 12, going to be applying for joint hons philosophy and politics next year. Super excited!!!

I've been to four open days recently (Bristol, Warwick, York, Nottingham, with Southampton to follow this weekend), and I've loved all of them.

However, Nottingham was by far my favourite - taster sessions were really engaging, loved the campus, general vibe, etc. Bristol would be a close second, too.

The problem is, it's ranked far lower than all of the others (bar Southampton) for my courses and the Russell Group overall.

I've heard that courses ranking between 10th-25th don't really have much difference between them, but I've had a big focus on 'prestige' in the past.
My Dad in particular puts a lot of emphasis on rankings (it's all he asks when I bring up the courses) - the only one he really approves of me applying to is Warwick as it's 5th and 6th. Idk if I'm just sensitive but it feels like wherever I'm applying isn't good enough for him.

However, while I loved Warwick academically, I don't like the campus one bit - what I like about Nottingham is that it's campus, but right on the city, not the middle of nowhere (and I don't fancy living in the surrounding area of Warwick after first year).
I also don't like how purpose-built and 'fake' Warwick felt, plus the idea of the 'Warwick bubble' sounds like I'd go stir-crazy.

I can really see myself at and love Nottingham (might be going back for a 2nd open day with my twin in the autumn), but would I be stupid or wasting my potential to go to the lowest ranked out of my options if I end up getting offers from all of them?
(For reference, Warwick and Bristol want AAA, Nottingham AAB, got three A*s in mocks so will probably be predicted A*AA to account for coursework)

I feel like I know the answer already, but I would appreciate some advice, especially as I'm really being pushed towards Warwick.

Thank you!

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Rankings are totally meaningless and change every year and different tables give differet results. Which one does your father use.

Also UK rankings are totally different to international ones which tend to favour older universities in bigger cities.

Here we go
Complete University Guide Bristol 16 Warwick 10
Guardian Bristol 17 Warwick 9
QS international Bristol 54 Warwick 69
THE world Bristol 81 Warwick106

Show these to your father and ask him which is right. This is why they are total nonsense. They look at different things.
Hi @aqalover

Great choice of course btw. I study Philosophy, Politics and Economics at the University of Southampton and I've enjoyed it. They are very interesting subjects.

As the previous poster has mentioned, rankings are different depending on what ranking you look at. Likewise, they all take different factors into account. Ultimately, the most important thing is where you will enjoy studying and be able to reach your potential.

If you have any questions regarding University of Southampton and/or studying Philosophy and Politics, I would be more than happy to answer them. You can just reply to my message.

Best Wishes,
Gulcin
University of Southampton
How does your dad feel about the footage of Warwick students singing nazi songs?
Reply 4
As above - rankings are a daft way to choose a Uni for all the reasons given.
No 'lists' can ever tell you if you will like being at that Uni, or enjoy studying that course.
Go to Open Days, look around, ask questions about the course - and decide if its the right place for you.

Warwick is weird. Its in the middle of nowhere, and is like living in a concrete new town.
Nottingham is fab - both city and the Uni - watch - University Park Campus tour | University of Nottingham (youtube.com)
So is Birmingham - watch - University of Birmingham campus tour (youtube.com)
Original post by aqalover
Hi :smile:
I'm currently in year 12, going to be applying for joint hons philosophy and politics next year. Super excited!!!
I've been to four open days recently (Bristol, Warwick, York, Nottingham, with Southampton to follow this weekend), and I've loved all of them.
However, Nottingham was by far my favourite - taster sessions were really engaging, loved the campus, general vibe, etc. Bristol would be a close second, too.
The problem is, it's ranked far lower than all of the others (bar Southampton) for my courses and the Russell Group overall.
I've heard that courses ranking between 10th-25th don't really have much difference between them, but I've had a big focus on 'prestige' in the past.
My Dad in particular puts a lot of emphasis on rankings (it's all he asks when I bring up the courses) - the only one he really approves of me applying to is Warwick as it's 5th and 6th. Idk if I'm just sensitive but it feels like wherever I'm applying isn't good enough for him.
However, while I loved Warwick academically, I don't like the campus one bit - what I like about Nottingham is that it's campus, but right on the city, not the middle of nowhere (and I don't fancy living in the surrounding area of Warwick after first year).
I also don't like how purpose-built and 'fake' Warwick felt, plus the idea of the 'Warwick bubble' sounds like I'd go stir-crazy.
I can really see myself at and love Nottingham (might be going back for a 2nd open day with my twin in the autumn), but would I be stupid or wasting my potential to go to the lowest ranked out of my options if I end up getting offers from all of them?
(For reference, Warwick and Bristol want AAA, Nottingham AAB, got three A*s in mocks so will probably be predicted A*AA to account for coursework)
I feel like I know the answer already, but I would appreciate some advice, especially as I'm really being pushed towards Warwick.
Thank you!

I did my BSc at Nottingham a good while ago. I also did my MSc at UCL. And then my PhD at another RG uni. What l learned was that prestige matters, but only up to a point. As long as the uni is good (i.e. RG or similar standard uni like St Andrews, Bath etc.), the extra prestige doesn't really matter in the competitive job market. As long as it is a good uni, other factors should be your priority, such as how much you like the campus and the city, and the course. If you are keen on prestige refer to the THES World rankings, and the QS World rankings. The former is looked at more by elite firms, although the latter is perhaps more relevant to academia, if that is your aim going forward. Use the UK rankings with a pinch of salt, as they aren't good at measuring prestige, and they are a bit wild in how they change from year to year, as they are geared more towards the student experience.

Nottingham has great relations with the big 4 accountancy firms, magic circle law firms and investment banks. UCL is much more prestigious, but the student experience was really lacking, and l quickly got bored there, and l was kind of glad l didn't go there for my BSc.

My advice would be to go for Bristol, then Nottingham as a back up. Bristol is a bit more elite, and students are generally of a higher calibre there. Bristol is also a much nicer city than Nottingham.
(edited 7 months ago)
Reply 6
What matters is what you want to do after the degree.
If you want to go into a field that’s not philosophy and politics, then the university as a whole, in terms of ranking, may play a factor. This factor usually only applies to ‘old school’ top tier firms (finance firms, law firms, etc). Nonetheless, this is a strong maybe.
However, if not/you’re unsure of what you want to do after uni, then I’d suggest you go with what you feel is right, and by the looks of it it’s Nottingham. You’re going to be there for the next few years of your life, not your dad. It’s better to say you made a wrong decision, than you regret a decision that was made for you (assuming the worst).
Besides, after uni you’ll find your dad won’t even remember the rank of whatever uni you go to.
Reply 7
How does your dad feel about the footage of Warwick students singing nazi songs?

Kind of a pointless comment don't you think? Why should a few, admittedly weird students, define an institution?
Original post by ytared123
Kind of a pointless comment don't you think? Why should a few, admittedly weird students, define an institution?

I wouldn’t have posted it if I thought it was pointless.

OP wants to study politics so is likely to be studying alongside members of the conservative society at any university AND they’re looking for ways to help their father see beyond rankings. So in both cases something worth considering and talking to their father about.

I would be wary of joining any community that tolerates nazis personally.
I wouldn’t have posted it if I thought it was pointless.
OP wants to study politics so is likely to be studying alongside members of the conservative society at any university AND they’re looking for ways to help their father see beyond rankings. So in both cases something worth considering and talking to their father about.
I would be wary of joining any community that tolerates nazis personally.

That is just a few idiots. When l was at Nottingham a student who was part of the Karni charity tried to order 200 pizzas over a microphone infront of a hundred freshers in hall. Idiots exist at every uni, no matter how prestigious. Medical students in their fifth year at Birmingham were found to have posted about raping female students online, and the uni had to fast track an investigation as students were about to finish.
I agree that all of the ranking tables are meaningless. Just take a look at the daft way they are compiled. Apply to universities that you like and have a good chance of being accepted by.
Original post by Physician
That is just a few idiots. When l was at Nottingham a student who was part of the Karni charity tried to order 200 pizzas over a microphone infront of a hundred freshers in hall. Idiots exist at every uni, no matter how prestigious. Medical students in their fifth year at Birmingham were found to have posted about raping female students online, and the uni had to fast track an investigation as students were about to finish.


I wouldn’t equate this with someone ordering a lot of pizzas.
Reply 12
I wouldn’t have posted it if I thought it was pointless.
OP wants to study politics so is likely to be studying alongside members of the conservative society at any university AND they’re looking for ways to help their father see beyond rankings. So in both cases something worth considering and talking to their father about.
I would be wary of joining any community that tolerates nazis personally.

There was a BBC article that came out today stating that the University had suspended the Conservative Society - does not sound like a community that "tolerates" that behaviour. Secondly, the society itself has suspended the members involved following the incident - once again, does not seem like a community that "tolerates" that behaviour. If I were you, I would consider knowing all the facts before launching an accusation against an ENTIRE university.
Original post by ytared123
There was a BBC article that came out today stating that the University had suspended the Conservative Society - does not sound like a community that "tolerates" that behaviour. Secondly, the society itself has suspended the members involved following the incident - once again, does not seem like a community that "tolerates" that behaviour. If I were you, I would consider knowing all the facts before launching an accusation against an ENTIRE university.

So the club lost recognition and the students were kicked out of the club. No actual sanctions or disciplinary action so far (and none of that published at the time I posted about it).

Instead of defending a university where Nazis felt comfortable singing nazi songs maybe you should be asking what actual sanctions are going to happen for this sort of gross misconduct. A slap on the wrist really doesn’t cut it when you’re dealing with nazis
Reply 14
So the club lost recognition and the students were kicked out of the club. No actual sanctions or disciplinary action so far (and none of that published at the time I posted about it).
Instead of defending a university where Nazis felt comfortable singing nazi songs maybe you should be asking what actual sanctions are going to happen for this sort of gross misconduct. A slap on the wrist really doesn’t cut it when you’re dealing with nazis

Like someone else mentioned, these sort of scandals have happened at a lot of different universities. I am sure Warwick will take decisive action, as this kind of behaviour should of course not be supported in any way. However, these kinds of issues are not the preserve of Warwick - Oxford's conservative society for instance has been involved in scandals where members have done similar things and have later been removed from the society. I would, thus, once again advise you to rethink slandering AN ENTIRE institution based on the actions of a few bad apples. This will be the last response from my end, don't really want to waste more time having this pointless debate
Original post by ytared123
Like someone else mentioned, these sort of scandals have happened at a lot of different universities. I am sure Warwick will take decisive action, as this kind of behaviour should of course not be supported in any way. However, these kinds of issues are not the preserve of Warwick - Oxford's conservative society for instance has been involved in scandals where members have done similar things and have later been removed from the society. I would, thus, once again advise you to rethink slandering AN ENTIRE institution based on the actions of a few bad apples. This will be the last response from my end, don't really want to waste more time having this pointless debate


OP isn’t interested in Oxford. They’re dealing with a parent pushing them to apply to Warwick against their preferences.

Universities have a duty to report extremism like this under their prevent duties and should be referring the matter to the police as prevent states and not conducting a 90 day investigation
(edited 7 months ago)
Reply 16
Original post by Uni of Southampton Students
Hi @aqalover
Great choice of course btw. I study Philosophy, Politics and Economics at the University of Southampton and I've enjoyed it. They are very interesting subjects.
As the previous poster has mentioned, rankings are different depending on what ranking you look at. Likewise, they all take different factors into account. Ultimately, the most important thing is where you will enjoy studying and be able to reach your potential.
If you have any questions regarding University of Southampton and/or studying Philosophy and Politics, I would be more than happy to answer them. You can just reply to my message.
Best Wishes,
Gulcin
University of Southampton

Thank you so much!!
OP, you must of course apply to universities that you wish to study at. Your father is mistaken. I add that your predicted grades might make you a competitive candidate for Oxford, Cambridge, and the leading London universities, but, I reiterate, only apply to places you would like to go to and don't worry about perceived prestige, rankings etc.
Personally, I think prestige (or perceived prestige) is important. Your uni may be looked at as a factor when applying for jobs. But perceived prestige is more accurate, prestigious in what grounds? RG/research, target uni, age of institution, international rankings, what element of prestige. They all give slightly different rankings, and unis only crow about which ever format / survey gives them the highest ranking!

What is far more likely to be important to sifting for jobs will be the classification of your degree. Your A level predictions infer that you would be capable at all of them, but where will you thrive? Which uni will support you and teach you in the best way to help you do the best you can in your degree? Which course structure and content fires your enthusiasm? Which one has highest teaching standards? Which one gets the results for course administration, teachers explaining course content, reflecting on student voice, depth and quality and importantly speed of feedback? These are the rankings that would matter to me.

Look them all up and compare. All rankings are based on the information received, so the GIGO principle applies, but by doing this you may find that the stats / feedback shows a marked difference in the educational/ lived experience of students between the courses.

What other things matter to you? Resources, well-being / pastoral care, ease of accommodation (don’t disregard this - look at the position / availability /cost for year 2 onwards, halls situations may be very different). Look at the accommodation guarantees. Bristol for example has an accommodation guarantee for those that firm only, insurance candidates have a much tougher time. Others may have accomm guarantees for those that firm, but research will show that actually those that insure are also accommodated, or at least there is accommodation available for them. What are the sports / recreational / societies available.

There are a lot of comparators. Prestige is one, and it matters to your dad, but, which matters to you the most? Consider prestige too but have your evidence ready for other factors.

And lastly, sometimes when you visit a place, you just know if you can see yourself being there.

Good luck with your application.
(edited 7 months ago)
University can be about much more than job prospects. In any even, employers in some sectors, such as commercial law, now assess applicants university-blind.

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