Online nonsense about the Trump shootingg

Original post

by mqb2766

As stated at the start, he has been extreme. A couple of quotes in case you didnt read the links
"Commentators and fact-checkers have described the scale of Trump's mendacity as "unprecedented" in American politics,[13] and the consistency of falsehoods a distinctive part of his business and political identities"
"Trump uses rhetoric that political scientists have deemed to be both dehumanizing and connected to physical violence by his followers"
One of his main campaign promises was to repeal the affordable care act, yet he couldnt do it even with a republican majority. It was his failure as a politician that was the reason
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5415398/
"The list of critics was long, diverse and crossed political lines. Even hardcore conservative commentators expressed dismay, including Ann Coulter, who tweeted, “Who wrote this piece of crap Obamacare replacement bill?”"
So its incredible that you think it shouldnt be used to assess his (lack of) ability.
For north korea
https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/why-trump-s-north-korea-missile-and-nuclear-diplomacy-failed/
and it was widely recognised as failed before trump got voted out in 2020, as trump went back to his usual "rocket man" twitter insults.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/04/asia/north-korea-kim-jong-un-intl-hnk/index.html
There was nothing for biden to shelve. Its incredulous that you make such a statement.
As usual, you fail to provide any evidence to back up your view of the world.

I don't think it is unprecedented or extreme. It is simply the lying media exploding the comments to make simple minds think they are unprecedented.

He wanted to repeal the affordable care act but was advised against it. You cannot attack him for doing things and not doing things. The argument then was that it would impact the working class voters that supported him, so he let it be. Surely, that’s a positive for him. If he had removed it, you would have been gung-ho about how he destroyed the healthcare access for millions of Americans.

For north korea, that’s an incredibly stupid position for the media to take. Did you follow the discourse then? I did. The media started off with that Chairman Kim wont want to meet Trump as he is a dictator who does not care, he did. Then it moved to, NK wont want to engage in meaningful discourse as they are aligned to China, they did. Then it moved to, Trump should not be engaging with NK because it is against decades of US Isolationist policy against NK, he did and even stepped foot in NK. Then it went to NK and US can never have a good MoU, they did and signed the first steps. Trump then lost the election and Biden shelved it.

What evidence do you want me to provide? I watch nonsense like a normal human being on the tv. I listen to the debates and opinions. I am then asked to show evidence. How tf can i show evidence that on 21.06.2022, person X came on the BBC and said XYZ.

Reply 62

Original post

by Wired_1800

I don't think it is unprecedented or extreme. It is simply the lying media exploding the comments to make simple minds think they are unprecedented.
He wanted to repeal the affordable care act but was advised against it. You cannot attack him for doing things and not doing things. The argument then was that it would impact the working class voters that supported him, so he let it be. Surely, that’s a positive for him. If he had removed it, you would have been gung-ho about how he destroyed the healthcare access for millions of Americans.
For north korea, that’s an incredibly stupid position for the media to take. Did you follow the discourse then? I did. The media started off with that Chairman Kim wont want to meet Trump as he is a dictator who does not care, he did. Then it moved to, NK wont want to engage in meaningful discourse as they are aligned to China, they did. Then it moved to, Trump should not be engaging with NK because it is against decades of US Isolationist policy against NK, he did and even stepped foot in NK. Then it went to NK and US can never have a good MoU, they did and signed the first steps. Trump then lost the election and Biden shelved it.
What evidence do you want me to provide? I watch nonsense like a normal human being on the tv. I listen to the debates and opinions. I am then asked to show evidence. How tf can i show evidence that on 21.06.2022, person X came on the BBC and said XYZ.

To use your phrase, though I dont agree with it, saying Biden shelved the north korea diplomacy would be the same as saying hed buried the dead parrot. It had failed, as expected by most commentators.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/donald-trumps-north-korea-gambit-what-worked-what-didnt-and-whats-next
"By the end of Trump’s term, the talks had petered out and he had little more to show for his efforts than a drawer full of flattering lletters", amongst many other similar quotes. Blaming the media is a common trump tactic.

Trumps failure to repeal the affordable care act is well documented in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_repeal_the_Affordable_Care_Act
See the 2017 section. The quote in the previous post pretty much sums it up. Again, you keep refering to what the other poster thinks/would do. Im simply highlighting his political incompetence.

Its not hard to provide evidence, though you repeatedly say it is.

Reply 63

Original post

by mqb2766

To use your phrase, though I dont agree with it, saying Biden shelved the north korea diplomacy would be the same as saying hed buried the dead parrot. It had failed, as expected by most commentators.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/donald-trumps-north-korea-gambit-what-worked-what-didnt-and-whats-next
"By the end of Trump’s term, the talks had petered out and he had little more to show for his efforts than a drawer full of flattering lletters", amongst many other similar quotes. Blaming the media is a common trump tactic.
Trumps failure to repeal the affordable care act is well documented in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_repeal_the_Affordable_Care_Act
See the 2017 section. The quote in the previous post pretty much sums it up. Again, you keep refering to what the other poster thinks/would do. Im simply highlighting his political incompetence.
Its not hard to provide evidence, though you repeatedly say it is.

The NK question could not be answered in 4 years under the President. It was a good sign that Chairman Kim wanted to engage with the Americans. If President Biden wanted to engage with the North Koreans, he would have figured out what went wrong and adapted the approach.

I am not sure what you are arguing anymore.

according to your link, these were the events

“On January 12, 2017, the Senate voted 51 to 48 to pass an FY2017 budget resolution, S.Con.Res. 3, that contained language allowing the repeal of the Affordable Care Act through the budget reconciliation process, which disallows a filibuster in the Senate. In spite of efforts during the vote-a-rama (a proceeding in which each amendment was considered and voted upon for about 10 minutes each until all 160 were completed) that continued into the early hours of the morning, Democrats could not prevent "the GOP from following through on its repeal plans."

On January 20, 2017, Donald Trump was sworn in as President of the United States. Trump and many Republicans have vowed to repeal and replace Obamacare. President Trump signed an executive order on January 20, 2017, his first day in office, that according to then White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer would "ease the burden of Obamacare as we transition from repeal and replace". Spicer would not elaborate further when asked for more details.

On March 6, 2017, House Republicans announced their replacement for the ACA, the American Health Care Act. The bill was withdrawn on March 24, 2017 after it was certain that the House would fail to garner enough votes to pass it. The result was in-fighting within the Republican Party.

On May 4, 2017, the United States House of Representatives voted to pass the American Health Care Act (and thereby repeal most of the Affordable Care Act) by a narrow margin of 217 to 213, sending the bill to the Senate for deliberation. The Senate indicated they would write their own version of the bill, instead of voting on the House version. On June 22, the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017 was unveiled.

On July 25, 2017, the United States Senate voted to proceed to debate on the American Health Care Act. The Senate voted 50–50, largely along party lines with the Republicans for and the Democrats against proceeding, requiring Vice President Pence to cast the tie-breaking vote. Republican Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska crossed the aisle to vote against the motion.

On July 27, 2017, the Health Care Freedom Act, also known as the skinny repeal, was introduced. This bill was defeated 49–51, with Republican senators Susan Collins, John McCain, and Lisa Murkowski voting against it along with all the Democrats and independents.

On September 13, 2017, an amendment to the American Health Care Act, commonly known as Graham-Cassidy, was submitted. The bill was sponsored by Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, with Bill Cassidy of Louisiana as a co-sponsor. A spokesman for the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said that a vote was planned to occur before September 30, which was the deadline to pass bills under budget reconciliation. Rand Paul and John McCain indicated that they would vote against the bill. Ultimately, McConnell announced on September 26 that the Senate would not vote on the Graham-Cassidy bill.

On October 12, 2017, President Donald Trump enacted the end to government subsidies provided to health insurance companies intended to assist with affordability. The Congressional Budget Office estimated by 2018, this loss would result in approximately a 20 percent increase in individual insurance premiums to maintain and extend insurance coverage to lower-income groups as well as result in a lower prevalence of insured individuals. The move for this action had mixed outlook from both Democrats and Republicans with its more instantaneous implementation, however opponents to the Affordable Care Act had supported the gradual implementation of this move since the introduction under the Obama administration in order to minimise responsibility for the policy.

On November 2, 2017, a bill later known as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was introduced by Representative Kevin Brady of Texas. Included in the bill was the move to strike the basis of individual mandate taxation to zero percent, which exacted a tax penalty onto individuals who did not have “minimum essential health coverage” under the Affordable Care Act. While this was not a direct effort to repeal the ACA, economists deemed the loss of the individual mandate was associated with lower incentives and interest in obtaining health insurance coverage. The law was signed into effect on December 22, 2017 by Donald Trump, with the loss of individual mandate taxation being set to take effect January 1, 2019.”

Reply 64

Original post

by Wired_1800

The NK question could not be answered in 4 years under the President. It was a good sign that Chairman Kim wanted to engage with the Americans. If President Biden wanted to engage with the North Koreans, he would have figured out what went wrong and adapted the approach.
I am not sure what you are arguing anymore.
according to your link, these were the events
“On January 12, 2017, the Senate voted 51 to 48 to pass an FY2017 budget resolution, S.Con.Res. 3, that contained language allowing the repeal of the Affordable Care Act through the budget reconciliation process, which disallows a filibuster in the Senate. In spite of efforts during the vote-a-rama (a proceeding in which each amendment was considered and voted upon for about 10 minutes each until all 160 were completed) that continued into the early hours of the morning, Democrats could not prevent "the GOP from following through on its repeal plans."
On January 20, 2017, Donald Trump was sworn in as President of the United States. Trump and many Republicans have vowed to repeal and replace Obamacare. President Trump signed an executive order on January 20, 2017, his first day in office, that according to then White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer would "ease the burden of Obamacare as we transition from repeal and replace". Spicer would not elaborate further when asked for more details.
On March 6, 2017, House Republicans announced their replacement for the ACA, the American Health Care Act. The bill was withdrawn on March 24, 2017 after it was certain that the House would fail to garner enough votes to pass it. The result was in-fighting within the Republican Party.
On May 4, 2017, the United States House of Representatives voted to pass the American Health Care Act (and thereby repeal most of the Affordable Care Act) by a narrow margin of 217 to 213, sending the bill to the Senate for deliberation. The Senate indicated they would write their own version of the bill, instead of voting on the House version. On June 22, the Better Care Reconciliation Act of 2017 was unveiled.
On July 25, 2017, the United States Senate voted to proceed to debate on the American Health Care Act. The Senate voted 50–50, largely along party lines with the Republicans for and the Democrats against proceeding, requiring Vice President Pence to cast the tie-breaking vote. Republican Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska crossed the aisle to vote against the motion.
On July 27, 2017, the Health Care Freedom Act, also known as the skinny repeal, was introduced. This bill was defeated 49–51, with Republican senators Susan Collins, John McCain, and Lisa Murkowski voting against it along with all the Democrats and independents.
On September 13, 2017, an amendment to the American Health Care Act, commonly known as Graham-Cassidy, was submitted. The bill was sponsored by Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, with Bill Cassidy of Louisiana as a co-sponsor. A spokesman for the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said that a vote was planned to occur before September 30, which was the deadline to pass bills under budget reconciliation. Rand Paul and John McCain indicated that they would vote against the bill. Ultimately, McConnell announced on September 26 that the Senate would not vote on the Graham-Cassidy bill.
On October 12, 2017, President Donald Trump enacted the end to government subsidies provided to health insurance companies intended to assist with affordability. The Congressional Budget Office estimated by 2018, this loss would result in approximately a 20 percent increase in individual insurance premiums to maintain and extend insurance coverage to lower-income groups as well as result in a lower prevalence of insured individuals. The move for this action had mixed outlook from both Democrats and Republicans with its more instantaneous implementation, however opponents to the Affordable Care Act had supported the gradual implementation of this move since the introduction under the Obama administration in order to minimise responsibility for the policy.
On November 2, 2017, a bill later known as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was introduced by Representative Kevin Brady of Texas. Included in the bill was the move to strike the basis of individual mandate taxation to zero percent, which exacted a tax penalty onto individuals who did not have “minimum essential health coverage” under the Affordable Care Act. While this was not a direct effort to repeal the ACA, economists deemed the loss of the individual mandate was associated with lower incentives and interest in obtaining health insurance coverage. The law was signed into effect on December 22, 2017 by Donald Trump, with the loss of individual mandate taxation being set to take effect January 1, 2019.”

There was little/no chance of north korea diplomacy ever working and giving kim a presidental meeting without any agreements/.. being in place (which would be the normal state) was again incredibly naive/incompetent on trumps part. The displomacy started to fall apart pretty much straight away, which isnt surprising as kims rule is based on an iron grip on the country and portraying america as the great enemy. The visit was a propaganda coup for north korea. As it had failed by the time he was voted out, stating trump would need more than 4 years is strange.

The previous two posts have tried to make my position on trumps failed efforts to repeal obamacare pretty clear. To use your language, maybe try reading them. The answer to “Who wrote this piece of crap Obamacare replacement bill?” was trump (just to be clear), which was why the bill was withdrawn in march. From the previous link

•

"Obamacare “is one of the greatest threats our country faces. It is unsustainable and will lead American into complete insolvency,” Trump said" - it didnt,

•

"one pundit dubbed a “magical mystery Obamacare alternative” failed to find enough support. It was “cruel magic thinking,” said another observer"

•

"Facing an inevitable “stinging defeat” in the House of Representatives, Trump eventually pulled the bil"

•

"Critics claimed that Trump was adhering to the “free-lunch fallacy” — promising that people could pay less yet get more. Even The Wall Street Journal referred to the proposed health care bill as a “gamble,” suggesting that Trump’s plan basically boiled down to hoping fellow Republicans “won’t dare block it.”"

Political incompetence is a pretty apt description. Should be clear.

Reply 65

Original post

by Driving_Mad

Her main role as vice-president was to address illegal immigration from down south. Under her ruling there were record numbers of immigrants crossing the border illegally. I'm looking forward to Trump confronting her about this when they debate.
She can't even speak properly either despite her history as an attorney. Her only tactic to gain support is talking about how she is black, a minority, and a woman.
Typical victim behaviour.

She took on several specific issues as VP. Souther border immigration was just one. Numbers of migrants also increased under Trump, so hardly the "gotcha" moment you were hoping for. Some might say that rolling back Trump's inhumane border policies is actually a win for Harris. Depends on how you view migrants (as "criminals and rapists poisoning the blood of our country", or as people with human rights and needs looking for a better life).
Additionally, she raised billions in investment for over-border programmes to alleviate the issue. So another win.

On the issues of abortion rights and voter rights protections she made great strides.

Trump will never agree to debate her. 🤣

"She can't even speak properly"
What are you on about? Have you listened to her speeches? Clear, understandable and most importantly - rational.
Compared to Trump's incoherent ramblings she is the epitome of eloquence.

Reply 66

Original post

by mqb2766

There was little/no chance of north korea diplomacy ever working and giving kim a presidental meeting without any agreements/.. being in place (which would be the normal state) was again incredibly naive/incompetent on trumps part. The displomacy started to fall apart pretty much straight away, which isnt surprising as kims rule is based on an iron grip on the country and portraying america as the great enemy. The visit was a propaganda coup for north korea. As it had failed by the time he was voted out, stating trump would need more than 4 years is strange.
The previous two posts have tried to make my position on trumps failed efforts to repeal obamacare pretty clear. To use your language, maybe try reading them. The answer to “Who wrote this piece of crap Obamacare replacement bill?” was trump (just to be clear), which was why the bill was withdrawn in march. From the previous link

•

"Obamacare “is one of the greatest threats our country faces. It is unsustainable and will lead American into complete insolvency,” Trump said" - it didnt,

•

"one pundit dubbed a “magical mystery Obamacare alternative” failed to find enough support. It was “cruel magic thinking,” said another observer"

•

"Facing an inevitable “stinging defeat” in the House of Representatives, Trump eventually pulled the bil"

•

Political incompetence is a pretty apt description. Should be clear.

That’s BS to me. I don't believe that a hostile state of affairs that had lasted decades could have suddenly went to perfect normality in 4 years. I respect that the President at least tried to engage diplomatically.

Reply 67

Original post

by Wired_1800

You claim Trump and Biden are as bad as each other.
Is Biden a convicted felon?
Has Biden been found legally responsible for sexual assault?
Has Biden called political opponents "vermin" or anything similar?
Has Biden accused immigrants of "poisoning the blood of our country", or similar?
Has Biden referred to white supremacists as "very fine people"?

There is literally no comparison between the two.

Reply 68

Original post

by Wired_1800

Its hardly bs that trumps efforts failed and kim was seen to be the winner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44484322
Time was not a problem with trumps attempt.

Reply 69

Original post

by 2WheelGod

We will know whether these are true when Trump comes to power and his justice department investigates the Bidens.

Reply 70

Original post

by mqb2766

Its hardly bs that trumps efforts failed and kim was seen to be the winner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44484322
Time was not a problem with trumps attempt.

This is not about being a winner. When the West sought to engage with the Soviet Union, there were many individuals who claimed that it would fail and it did fail at the time. Now, no idiot would still hold that position

Reply 71

Original post

by Wired_1800

Little / nothing happened afterwards, so it "failed". The only benefit was the suspension of military exercises in south korea so kim "won". North korea had a propaganda victory in bringing the great enemy to their backyard. Call it what you will, but trump got nothing out of the diplomatic effort and saying that something might happen in the (near) future is crystal ball gazing and it seems extremely unlikely under kims regime which shows no signs of wanting to reform as happened under gorbachev.

"She could not believe that after two visits by the US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to Pyongyang and all the negotiations surrounding the on, off, on again' summit, the Trump team was able to emerge with quite so little."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44484322

Reply 72

Original post

by mqb2766

Little / nothing happened afterwards, so it "failed". The only benefit was the suspension of military exercises in south korea so kim "won". North korea had a propaganda victory in bringing the great enemy to their backyard. Call it what you will, but trump got nothing out of the diplomatic effort and saying that something might happen in the (near) future is crystal ball gazing and it seems extremely unlikely under kims regime which shows no signs of wanting to reform as happened under gorbachev.
"She could not believe that after two visits by the US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to Pyongyang and all the negotiations surrounding the on, off, on again' summit, the Trump team was able to emerge with quite so little."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44484322

WTF. Nothing happened because Trump lost the election.

Reply 73

Original post

by Wired_1800

WTF. Nothing happened because Trump lost the election.

There was about 2.5 years between trumps visit in june 2018 and trump losing the election in nov 2020. Little/nothing happened in that time. It was widely regarded to have failed as in the posts/quotes above.

Tbh, Im kinda sick of the wtf, idiot, bs, ... in your replies.

Reply 74

Original post

by mqb2766

There was about 2.5 years between trumps visit in june 2018 and trump losing the election in nov 2020. Little/nothing happened in that time.
Tbh, Im kinda sick of the wtf, idiot, bs, ... in your replies.

Did you sleep through President Trump’s presidency? Did you forget that Trump had to fight multiple impeachments including the Russian hoax. You seem to be a stand up guy, surely you can acknowledge that Trump had his hands full with loads of internal problems.

I am not using those words at you but a general response. I will reduce the use of those words.

Reply 75

Original post

by Wired_1800

Did you sleep through President Trump’s presidency? Did you forget that Trump had to fight multiple impeachments including the Russian hoax. You seem to be a stand up guy, surely you can acknowledge that Trump had his hands full with loads of internal problems.
I am not using those words at you but a general response. I will reduce the use of those words.

"sleep through"? I guess youre being ironic in that your language will improve.

There were no real efforts on either side in those 2.5 years, and it was all to predictable on kims side as its how he rules north korea. Trump went back to his twitter insults etc.

But no, I didnt sleep through that time.

Reply 76

Original post

by mqb2766

"sleep through"? I guess youre being ironic in that your language will improve.
There were no real efforts on either side in those 2.5 years, and it was all to predictable on kims side as its how he rules north korea. Trump went back to his twitter insults etc.
But no, I didnt sleep through that time.

The President had several issues at home as the Dems made it almost ungovernable for him. I would still respect President Trump’s desire to engage.

Reply 77

Original post

by Wired_1800

I don't think it is unprecedented or extreme. It is simply the lying media exploding the comments to make simple minds think they are unprecedented.
He wanted to repeal the affordable care act but was advised against it. You cannot attack him for doing things and not doing things. The argument then was that it would impact the working class voters that supported him, so he let it be. Surely, that’s a positive for him. If he had removed it, you would have been gung-ho about how he destroyed the healthcare access for millions of Americans.
For north korea, that’s an incredibly stupid position for the media to take. Did you follow the discourse then? I did. The media started off with that Chairman Kim wont want to meet Trump as he is a dictator who does not care, he did. Then it moved to, NK wont want to engage in meaningful discourse as they are aligned to China, they did. Then it moved to, Trump should not be engaging with NK because it is against decades of US Isolationist policy against NK, he did and even stepped foot in NK. Then it went to NK and US can never have a good MoU, they did and signed the first steps. Trump then lost the election and Biden shelved it.
What evidence do you want me to provide? I watch nonsense like a normal human being on the tv. I listen to the debates and opinions. I am then asked to show evidence. How tf can i show evidence that on 21.06.2022, person X came on the BBC and said XYZ.

Just to be clear, is everything said about all politicians "simply the lying media", or is it only when they comment on right wing politicians?

Reply 78

Original post

by Wired_1800

The President had several issues at home as the Dems made it almost ungovernable for him. I would still respect President Trump’s desire to engage.

He was 1.5 years into his term in june 2018. Trumps first impeachment started in Dec 2019, 1.5 years after the meeting with north korea. There is a huge difference between engaging at a diplomatic level and having a presidental visit with an isolated nation, especially when there is little/no outcome.

(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 79