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Joint honours history and english at oxford

My daughter wants to apply for joint honours history and english at oxford as I she loves both. We have heard that it's harder to get into joint honours because of the small number of applicants and that there is more workload - any views on this? Thanks.

Reply 2

Add the four candidates who applied to read History and English who were offered places to read History to the nineteen candidates offered places to read History and English and the overall success rate in the applicant pool becomes approximately 22 %.
(edited 8 months ago)

Reply 3

Reply 4

Original post by Daltuba
My daughter wants to apply for joint honours history and english at oxford as I she loves both. We have heard that it's harder to get into joint honours because of the small number of applicants and that there is more workload - any views on this? Thanks.

My daughter is also considering this. I'm stressed already!

Reply 5

Original post by TheWord
My daughter is also considering this. I'm stressed already!

I wish both of the daughters mentioned here luck. My daughter applied to Oxford last year after finishing the IB. She matriculates at St Peter's to read Jurisprudence in October. Hang tough!

I read Modern History at Wadham (1981-84), but spent much of my first year thinking of transferring to English. In those days, joint honours History and English was not available. In the event, I stayed with History and did not regret that.

As inspiration, I recommend the attached article from Oxford's academic history journal Past And Present. It's about the first and greatest book written by the World's greatest living historian, Sir Keith Thomas, but it also contains much information about the history of the study of history at Oxford since the 1950s, and the Oxford history culture in general.

https://academic.oup.com/past/article/261/1/259/7246025?login=false

I am not sure if there is an equivalent of this for English. To get a sense of the Oxford Faculty of English, read John Carey, Terry Eagleton, and Ros Ballaster, and there's also an interesting piece in a book of essays called Tolkien's Gown.

I suppose that if there is one college which epitomises Oxford History, it's one of Balliol, St John's, or Oriel, and if there's one college which epitomises English it's Merton, but of course both subjects flourish at every college. Ros Ballaster (St Hilda's 1981-84) is still very active as a Fellow of Mansfield and Professor of Eighteenth Century Studies. John Carey and Terry Eagleton are retired, but still active. Oxford, a city of eternal youth, can promote longevity. Wadham's wonderful Germanist Ray Ockenden is still as lively as ever in his mid 80s, Emeritus Fellow and Dean of Degrees.
(edited 8 months ago)

Reply 7

Original post by Stiffy Byng
I wish both of the daughters mentioned here luck. My daughter applied to Oxford last year after finishing the IB. She matriculates at St Peter's to read Jurisprudence in October. Hang tough!
I read Modern History at Wadham (1981-84), but spent much of my first year thinking of transferring to English. In those days, joint honours History and English was not available. In the event, I stayed with History and did not regret that.
As inspiration, I recommend the attached article from Oxford's academic history journal Past And Present. It's about the first and greatest book written by the World's greatest living historian, Sir Keith Thomas, but it also contains much information about the history of the study of history at Oxford since the 1950s, and the Oxford history culture in general.
https://academic.oup.com/past/article/261/1/259/7246025?login=false
I am not sure if there is an equivalent of this for English. To get a sense of the Oxford Faculty of English, read John Carey, Terry Eagleton, and Ros Ballaster, and there's also an interesting piece in a book of essays called Tolkien's Gown.
I suppose that if there is one college which epitomises Oxford History, it's one of Balliol, St John's, or Oriel, and if there's one college which epitomises English it's Merton, but of course both subjects flourish at every college. Ros Ballaster (St Hilda's 1981-84) is still very active as a Fellow of Mansfield and Professor of Eighteenth Century Studies. John Carey and Terry Eagleton are retired, but still active. Oxford, a city of eternal youth, can promote longevity. Wadham's wonderful Germanist Ray Ockenden is still as lively as ever in his mid 80s, Emeritus Fellow and Dean of Degrees.

That's very kind and helpful of you, thanks very much. I have one question for you: my Goddaughter read English at Cambridge and did very well, won some best-of-year award when she graduated. But she worked ALL THE TIME and I'm not sure she had the more rounded experience that university should or could be about. It could be that's just her personality. Love to hear your opinion on that.

Reply 8

Original post by TheWord
That's very kind and helpful of you, thanks very much. I have one question for you: my Goddaughter read English at Cambridge and did very well, won some best-of-year award when she graduated. But she worked ALL THE TIME and I'm not sure she had the more rounded experience that university should or could be about. It could be that's just her personality. Love to hear your opinion on that.

I and almost everyone I know who studied at Oxford and Cambridge had a fabulous time there. Two of my Oxford friends did not enjoy Oxford. The rest of my Oxford friendship group cherish our time as undergraduates. I work in a profession densely populated by Oxbridge graduates and most of those I meet professionally had a great time when studying.

My lot worked hard, but we liked to work hard. We loved our subjects and were thrilled to be learning at the feet of some of the greatest scholars in the World. We learned by discussion. Those who complain that at Oxbridge you don't get taught have perhaps failed to click with the tutorial/supervision systems.

We had lots of time to drink, play sports, put on plays, do politics, fall in love, fall out of punts, and talk, talk, talk. My daughter will, I am sure, work hard but also have fun. I have told her that as soon as fresher's week is over it's full on. Essay, tutorial, essay, tutorial, no slacking, but also party party, and anyway who needs sleep when you are nineteen?

I fear that some aspects of modern teenage life and modern schools have instilled into some students the idea that, if they go to Oxford or Cambridge, they are not allowed to have fun. That isn't the case. Most of the Dons were once undergraduates at one or other of those universities, and most of them want the students to have fun as well as work hard. Some students are unprepared for the pace and/or teaching methods, and maybe feel adrift because they are not told what to do and what to think.

The Neoliberal monetisation of the university experience has been a disaster. Many now see university simply as a transaction, and/or as part of a grinding process of getting a good job, which requires drone-like performance in order to obtain a job as a drone in a huge law firm or an investment bank. Also, there is some evidence that Gen Zed is more anxious than previous generations, for reasons to do with many aspects of modern life. All of this may induce some people to work too hard and to miss the non-academic delights of student life. At some (not all) other universities, people do not work at all and either party 24/7, or mope around. That's no good either.

University done right is great, but, like anything else, you have to work at it.

Reply 9

Original post by Stiffy Byng
I and almost everyone I know who studied at Oxford and Cambridge had a fabulous time there. Two of my Oxford friends did not enjoy Oxford. The rest of my Oxford friendship group cherish our time as undergraduates. I work in a profession densely populated by Oxbridge graduates and most of those I meet professionally had a great time when studying.
My lot worked hard, but we liked to work hard. We loved our subjects and were thrilled to be learning at the feet of some of the greatest scholars in the World. We learned by discussion. Those who complain that at Oxbridge you don't get taught have perhaps failed to click with the tutorial/supervision systems.
We had lots of time to drink, play sports, put on plays, do politics, fall in love, fall out of punts, and talk, talk, talk. My daughter will, I am sure, work hard but also have fun. I have told her that as soon as fresher's week is over it's full on. Essay, tutorial, essay, tutorial, no slacking, but also party party, and anyway who needs sleep when you are nineteen?
I fear that some aspects of modern teenage life and modern schools have instilled into some students the idea that, if they go to Oxford or Cambridge, they are not allowed to have fun. That isn't the case. Most of the Dons were once undergraduates at one or other of those universities, and most of them want the students to have fun as well as work hard. Some students are unprepared for the pace and/or teaching methods, and maybe feel adrift because they are not told what to do and what to think.
The Neoliberal monetisation of the university experience has been a disaster. Many now see university simply as a transaction, and/or as part of a grinding process of getting a good job, which requires drone-like performance in order to obtain a job as a drone in a huge law firm or an investment bank. Also, there is some evidence that Gen Zed is more anxious than previous generations, for reasons to do with many aspects of modern life. All of this may induce some people to work too hard and to miss the non-academic delights of student life. At some (not all) other universities, people do not work at all and either party 24/7, or mope around. That's no good either.
University done right is great, but, like anything else, you have to work at it.

Thank you again for this. I hear you about the monetisation of the university experience. I'm sure it was done with the best of intentions but it has definitely compromised the education system. I have friends' kids who struggled at A Level but who easily got Firsts at university, a grade inflation that does nobody any good. A First was like a hen's tooth when I was at university in the 1980s!

Reply 10

Original post by TheWord
Thank you again for this. I hear you about the monetisation of the university experience. I'm sure it was done with the best of intentions but it has definitely compromised the education system. I have friends' kids who struggled at A Level but who easily got Firsts at university, a grade inflation that does nobody any good. A First was like a hen's tooth when I was at university in the 1980s!

It used to be one in ten who took a First, now it is three or four in ten at some places.

Reply 11

I briefly taught law at a very rubbish university. The students were with one exception lazy and useless, and their work was appalling. Many openly copied and pasted from the internet. I was pressured by the Head of the Department to push marks up. In one assessment, there was only one student who, applying the marking scheme, warranted a First, and none who warranted a 2,1. The rest were Desmonds, Richards, and outright fails. But the marking scheme went into the bin during moderation, and the whole lot got 2.1 and 2.2s, mostly underserved.

Maybe I am a bad teacher, but I observe that every single one of my many pupils at the Bar has taken Silk (two of them are now the joint Heads of Blackstone Chambers, the number one set of barristers' chambers in the Common Law World).

The one good student was a Muslim woman who wore a hijab. She had obtained a place to read law at Cambridge but her family would not let her go there. She was bored and frustrated. At Cambridge, she might have got a 2.1, and maybe even a First. She was on for a First at the duff university. I urged her to do postgrad at UCL, KCL, or the LSE, and to tell her parents that she could commute daily.

I recently met online a bloke who teaches a variant of Grievance Studies at a very dire university. He has a BA, an MA, and a PhD from that university, now has a Chair, and has spent his whole career writing utter nonsense, some of which is published in laughable journals. He can barely write a comprehensible sentence. Oh well, it's a job.

Oxford, Cambridge, and a number of other UK universities maintain and defend real scholarship. They set exacting standards for their undergraduates. They are not really in the same industry as the degree mills.
(edited 7 months ago)

Reply 12

Getting into the nitty gritty of the personal statement, I think the last time they will have to do it in this form. HAT all booked. Dickens being read. Russian revolution being re-remembered. My daughter left school a year ago so already knows her A Level results, so at least she doesn't have to prove herself in that sense. Just in every other sense!

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