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Taking Microsoft to small claims court

Has anyone been denied a refund by Microsoft for digital games that they paid for online but never played, and asked for a refund within the 14 day cooling period? I am thinking of taking them to a small claims court, as they are breaking UK consumer law.

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If it's this straightforward, what reason have they gave for the refund refusal? Was this from a person or an automated response?

How much money are we talking about here? Bearing in mind you're looking at least at £35ish in fees + your own time.
Reply 2
This was for a few digital games on the Xbox. They said l had reached their limit for refunds this year. My argument is that l hadn't played any of the games l had asked for a refund, and the reason for their limit on refunds is to stop people from playing the games and then asking for a refund. I didn't abuse my position, so l should be given a refund. If l take them to court, they will be liable for fees plus interest if l win. As long as l follow the strict advice of the Citizens Advice Bureau, l should win the case. I have taken a much, much smaller firm to court in this way before and won.

It appears as though the person who replied to my messages was a real person.
(edited 2 months ago)
Well you sound pretty sure about winning. I don't know either way but it sounds like they may have an argument if there has been a history of it.
Reply 4
Original post by StriderHort
Well you sound pretty sure about winning. I don't know either way but it sounds like they may have an argument if there has been a history of it.

The issue is that they are responding from the US, so they wont be familiar with consumer laws from outside their jurisdiction. They do say in their returns policy that they will comply with the law, namely if the game was not played, and a refund was requested within 14 days.
Reply 5
It is standard practice of online companies to limit the number of refunds they’ll give you.

If you go ahead with this, you’ll likely be banned from purchasing Microsoft products again.
(edited 2 months ago)
Reply 6
Original post by Gazpacho.
It is standard practice of online companies to limit the number of refunds they’ll give you.
If you go ahead with this, you’ll likely be banned from purchasing Microsoft products again.

Microsoft have a policy for arbitration, so that cases like mine don't go to court.
Original post by Gazpacho.
It is standard practice of online companies to limit the number of refunds they’ll give you.
If you go ahead with this, you’ll likely be banned from purchasing Microsoft products again.


Then how are people meant to hold up their rights in situations like that considering the massive amounts of lawbreaking from these companies already?

Original post by Physician
Microsoft have a policy for arbitration, so that cases like mine don't go to court.

I don't think arbitration is something they can force on UK users.
Reply 8
Original post by TheStupidMoon
Then how are people meant to hold up their rights in situations like that considering the massive amounts of lawbreaking from these companies already?
I don't think arbitration is something they can force on UK users.

People can dispute individual sales. However, a company is under no obligation to do business with you. If you start disputing things all the time or taking them to small claims court, they’ll simple refuse to sell you products in the future.

Amazon is a classic example. Abuse the return system and they’ll ban you.
MS have tried to cover themselves a bit in their T&C's. I've underlined a few bits but the section in bold is key.

https://support.xbox.com/en-GB/help/subscriptions-billing/buy-games-apps/refund-orders

Spoiler


Most of the guidance is to speak to Citizen's Advice or relevant ombudsman, as I suspect small claims is a lot of faff for little benefit.


https://www.gov.uk/consumer-protection-rights

NB. Of course the simplest solution would be to not buy multiple games that you don't play.
Original post by Admit-One
MS have tried to cover themselves a bit in their T&C's. I've underlined a few bits but the section in bold is key.
https://support.xbox.com/en-GB/help/subscriptions-billing/buy-games-apps/refund-orders

Spoiler


Most of the guidance is to speak to Citizen's Advice or relevant ombudsman, as I suspect small claims is a lot of faff for little benefit.
https://www.gov.uk/consumer-protection-rights
NB. Of course the simplest solution would be to not buy multiple games that you don't play.

But terms and conditions aren't law and they are often used as an excuse to confuse the public and let these companys get away with it especially with smartphones and apps and everything being on the internet.

Original post by Gazpacho.
People can dispute individual sales. However, a company is under no obligation to do business with you. If you start disputing things all the time or taking them to small claims court, they’ll simple refuse to sell you products in the future.
Amazon is a classic example. Abuse the return system and they’ll ban you.


I'm sure you can see how that is a massive problem for customers when a company can commit crimes against the public and then ban them for holding them to account when that company holds monopoly power.
Amazon itself is filled with dodgy goods and false advertising.
Original post by TheStupidMoon
But terms and conditions aren't law and they are often used as an excuse to confuse the public and let these companys get away with it especially with smartphones and apps and everything being on the internet.


Yes, that's why I said the bit I highlighted in bold was key and encouraged them to seek further advice.
Original post by TheStupidMoon
But terms and conditions aren't law and they are often used as an excuse to confuse the public and let these companys get away with it especially with smartphones and apps and everything being on the internet.
I'm sure you can see how that is a massive problem for customers when a company can commit crimes against the public and then ban them for holding them to account when that company holds monopoly power.
Amazon itself is filled with dodgy goods and false advertising.

Actually this has been the the case long before digital purchases - clothes/tech stores etc will often ban persistent refunders where there is no actual complaint because they're just trying to take the urine at the stores expense and 'borrow' stock from them/waste their time. Past a point its obvious to them it's better to not trade with you at all.

I wonder how long you would tolerate such behaviour if it was your business, the same people constantly backing out of purchases and demanding refunds at your expense for no reason beyond a whim and if you object they start going off on rants about amazon and crimes etc.
Original post by TheStupidMoon
But terms and conditions aren't law and they are often used as an excuse to confuse the public and let these companys get away with it especially with smartphones and apps and everything being on the internet.
I'm sure you can see how that is a massive problem for customers when a company can commit crimes against the public and then ban them for holding them to account when that company holds monopoly power.
Amazon itself is filled with dodgy goods and false advertising.

A company saying you are abusing our refunds policy is not a crime. In fact it is a perfectly reasonable business response.
Reply 14
Original post by Gazpacho.
A company saying you are abusing our refunds policy is not a crime. In fact it is a perfectly reasonable business response.

In my case l bought a dozen games that l kept, and a dozen more that l returned after a few days without ever playing them. That is not abusing their returns policy as l never played the games. They refunded me for 8 games, and refused to refund me for the other 4.
(edited 2 months ago)
Original post by Gazpacho.
A company saying you are abusing our refunds policy is not a crime. In fact it is a perfectly reasonable business response.


Original post by StriderHort
Actually this has been the the case long before digital purchases - clothes/tech stores etc will often ban persistent refunders where there is no actual complaint because they're just trying to take the urine at the stores expense and 'borrow' stock from them/waste their time. Past a point its obvious to them it's better to not trade with you at all.



In this example we are discussing customers who are holding crooked company to account. Vexatious customers or conmen are a completely different matter.
The way some people have responded it's as if they are running a business ripping off customers.
Original post by Physician
In my case l bought a dozen games that l kept, and a dozen more that l returned after a few days without ever playing them. They is not abusing their returns policy as l never played the games.

Returning 50% of the games you've purchased is clearly taking the mick.

Returns, even if they are digital, cost companies money. Admin costs, server costs, costs associated with the financial transaction, etc. That is why companies have refund policies to prevent this kind of abuse.
(edited 2 months ago)
Reply 17
Original post by Gazpacho.
Returning 50% of the games you've purchased is clearly taking the mick.
Returns, even if they are digital, cost companies money. Admin costs, server costs, costs associated with the financial transaction, etc. That is why companies have refund policies to prevent this kind of abuse.

If you read their terms and conditions, they say they make exceptions where applicable to comply with the laws of that country. They also state that items that were unused and within the 14 days from initial purchase may be returned. Their limits on refunds per year were aimed at stopping people from buying games just to try them out for more than 2 hours and then ask for a refund if they didn't like them. I didn't play those games that l wanted a refund for. So l didn't abuse their refund terms and conditions, so l should be given an exemption in this case. A blanket limit on refunds would break UK consumer law in my case.
(edited 2 months ago)
Original post by TheStupidMoon
In this example we are discussing customers who are holding crooked company to account. Vexatious customers or conmen are a completely different matter.
The way some people have responded it's as if they are running a business ripping off customers.

What's being 'crooked' got to do with anything beyond a personal axe to grind? Its basically whataboutery. Considering there was no defect or issue with the product or service most retailers would prob take action over a dozen refund requests.
Original post by Physician
If you read their terms and conditions, they say they make exceptions where applicable to comply with the laws of that country. They also state that items that were unused and within the 14 days from initial purchase may be returned. Their limits on refunds per year were aimed at stopping people from buying games just to try them out for more than 2 hours and then ask for a refund if they didn't like them. I didn't play those games that l wanted a refund for. So l didn't abuse their refund terms and conditions, so l should be given an exemption in this case. A blanket limit on refunds would break UK consumer law in my case.

Just curious, if you bought a dozen games every day and refunded them the next day before doing the exact same for days on end, never playing any of them. At what point do you think it's appropriate to ban you from causing further losses? or do you feel entitled to just do this forever? I'm just curious where you feel the line is.

I don't really know how a claim would go, but I suspect the number of refunds requests would likely be an issue and apparently 8 refunds is your limit.
(edited 2 months ago)

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