The Student Room Group

Physics at top uni doable without further maths a level?

I'm in year 12 doing Physics, Maths, Further maths and English a level, and recently received my predicted grades which were 3A*s and a B in Further Maths. My teachers say they can't change my further maths grade but I might be able to change it to an A by January if I dedicate lots of time to it. I'm thinking of applying to UCL, Imperial and Edinburgh for Physics, and was wondering how much of a disadvantage it would be applying without further maths if i choose to drop it, with the schools knowing I come from a private school that offers further maths. I just don't want to jeopardise my other three a levels.

Reply 1

Edinburgh have no mention of further maths in their subject entry requirements. They want high grades in 3 subjects including maths and physics, which is more achievable if you drop fm.
Imperial want Maths and Physics and a third subject (preferably fm but its not essential) so you can still get an offer based on this with top grades in Maths, Physics and English. The content of fm will mean you may already have covered some of the maths content in the degree (not sure) but there may be others in your position although many will have taken fm
UCL also do not mention FM in their requirements, just specify that an A* and an A are needed in Physics and Maths in any order. So dropping FM should be fine for applying there also.

Reply 2

I got an offer from Imperial without further maths. I don’t think any university in the UK requires FM as they typically teach you the math you need to know in first year anyway

Reply 3

really?? your school wont let you change your further maths grade?? People that got Cs were told that their grades could go up to As in further maths as long as they performed very well in september - your school is weird.

Reply 4

Bath - Physics courses (bath.ac.uk) - just needs Mathematics and Physics
Loughborough - Undergraduate | Physics | Loughborough University (lboro.ac.uk) - just Maths and Physics
Bristol - Undergraduate | School of Physics | University of Bristol - just Mathematics and Physics
Etc.

Reply 5

Original post by idkyasin
I got an offer from Imperial without further maths. I don’t think any university in the UK requires FM as they typically teach you the math you need to know in first year anyway


This is true, although having further maths will make things a bit easier at the start. But if I were given the choice between having done further maths and having learned a lot of Python before my degree, I'd have chosen the latter.

Reply 6

Yes it’s doable - ik loads of ppl in Uni without further - though it will make things easier

Reply 7

Original post by sonigreendress
Yes it’s doable - ik loads of ppl in Uni without further - though it will make things easier

what uni is this,?

Reply 8

You don't need FM trust me, it doesn't even help with university even if you do that kind of maths later on it's all taught. Do what is best for you! I've graduated with a master's in physics and no further maths. I don't know anything about private schools, what do your teachers there say? It's a bit odd to judge from which school you came from but i'm not fully aware of the admissions process. You can definately get into a good physics programme / university with those grades o_O much better than mine and I still got into a top 10 uni.

Just remember university is a clean slate, once you get into university your past doesn't matter as much and for most jobs/careers it's about what you do there, achieve and hopefully job experience/placements.

Reply 9

Original post by kitkatya789
You don't need FM trust me, it doesn't even help with university even if you do that kind of maths later on it's all taught. Do what is best for you! I've graduated with a master's in physics and no further maths. I don't know anything about private schools, what do your teachers there say? It's a bit odd to judge from which school you came from but i'm not fully aware of the admissions process. You can definately get into a good physics programme / university with those grades o_O much better than mine and I still got into a top 10 uni.
Just remember university is a clean slate, once you get into university your past doesn't matter as much and for most jobs/careers it's about what you do there, achieve and hopefully job experience/placements.

This is really a relief to hear, may i ask what alevels you did?
I’m taking Physics, Maths and geography alevels and want to apply for a physics/astro degree. I was originally going to take further maths than geography but felt discouraged and now i can’t really switch, i thought id get a better grade in geography therefore meet entry requirements for unis and thought further would draw my attention back from other subjects but im honestly not sure anymore, i still enjoy geography however. With 988887777 at gcse i was still asked why i didn’t pick further as i was ‘capable’.

I’ve been told by so many people so far that id be put at a huge disadvantage and not regret doing it later on especially at university when other people have done it, honestly makes me feel bad as i’ve just started year 12. I’ve also read someone say to not bother doing a physics degree if i didn’t bother doing further maths at alevel as physics is ofcourse a very maths intense degree. I feel like a lot of people are over exaggerating but i can’t tell. Anyways.. i’m thinking of self teaching some fm the summer before uni to ease the transition, do you recommend this? Also, how have you found your physics degree? I honestly can’t wait to start mine.

Reply 10

Original post by maryam!!
what uni is this,?


well the people ik - Nottingham, Oxford, Cambridge, can’t remember the rest

Reply 11

Original post by maryam!!
This is really a relief to hear, may i ask what alevels you did?
I’m taking Physics, Maths and geography alevels and want to apply for a physics/astro degree. I was originally going to take further maths than geography but felt discouraged and now i can’t really switch, i thought id get a better grade in geography therefore meet entry requirements for unis and thought further would draw my attention back from other subjects but im honestly not sure anymore, i still enjoy geography however. With 988887777 at gcse i was still asked why i didn’t pick further as i was ‘capable’.
I’ve been told by so many people so far that id be put at a huge disadvantage and not regret doing it later on especially at university when other people have done it, honestly makes me feel bad as i’ve just started year 12. I’ve also read someone say to not bother doing a physics degree if i didn’t bother doing further maths at alevel as physics is ofcourse a very maths intense degree. I feel like a lot of people are over exaggerating but i can’t tell. Anyways.. i’m thinking of self teaching some fm the summer before uni to ease the transition, do you recommend this? Also, how have you found your physics degree? I honestly can’t wait to start mine.

I did physics, chemistry and design&tech lol, I had to do a foundation year at a top10 uni though thats a caveat, the reason I didn't do a-level maths was because I just struggled in school and I had undiagnosed ADHD but I was good at physics and also maths however I just didn't realise it yet for maths as i had personal problems at home/school and for my maths education in secondary school was awful so i was a little behind so it stunted my learning (i also didnt have a plethora of internet resources like you do now).

^ thats the 'caveats' out of the way

As for your situation please DO NOT think you cannot do physics because you don't have further maths it's actual insanity (who is saying this), yes I did need to learn the necessary maths required which i did in my foundation year but it was not as extensive or difficult as a-level maths which i self taught myself some of it anyway to support myself further.

From the sounds of your GCSE grades you clearly are intelligent, the most important thing right now is to translate that success you have into a-levles (also figure out how you learn best if you haven't already as you probably already know with a-levels you do need to understand not memorise). So focus on your a-levels, you have physics and maths and that's all you need to get into physics obviously you'll need a third a-level too so don't flunk that haha.

If I can graduate from a top10 university with no a-level in maths (yes i did a foundation year) you can! In first year they know many students come from different backgrounds so they try to teach everyone to get them on the same page until it gets much harder in second year. I promise you won't be at a disadvantage perhaps speak to physics students at the universities you're interested (i'd hope they say the same thing). Physics can get very maths heavy dependant on what you do, I have a more stronger background in material science and quantum physics and ofc there is maths haha but it's not that bad and you will be taught.

I found my physics degree hard but I made it through and I did have to work harder than my peers to 'catch up' and battle my learning difficulty with ADHD and figure out how I learn but I got through it, and employability wise I've done two placements with 2 different companies (and hope to start a grad role in sep 2025 im on a gapish year atm haha but i get interviews very fast). You genuinely sound intelligent and most people on my course we all graduated. That being said it is a little harder to find employment as a physicist (despite being able to enter more fields) as engineering is much better job-wise and i'd argue easier than physics (concept wise). You may also realise that academia is not for you, before I started I wanted to be a fancy academic either in astrophysics like yourself or something quantum related and now i dont want to at all. Not writing it off but many students after university are so done with academics haha.

As for teaching yourself, it's a waste of time in my opinion enjoy your summer however, if you are keen you can maybe contact your uni? and ask them if there's anything over summer you can do however again theres plenty of resources on youtube. I doubt you'll be able to access module specifications but if it's available online look at that and just get a textbook or youtube (all first year stuff will be on youtube haha). I doubt many uni's will say much they'll ask you to enjoy your summer break I know my lecturers would say that (unprofessionally lol).

But yeh key takeaway.

Get good a-levels grades, get into any university with a decent physics programme tbh most/all UK uni's will be good for physics just check the modules and see if it's what you like. Just remember like what I said in my old message university is a clean slate it's about what you do there that matters. You do not need further maths and you will be taught what you need to know as you go through the programme, I didn't do a-level maths at all lol (well i did but i had to drop it so only did it to AS level). Whilst at university do try to rackup internships such as working as a lab assistant at the uni or something and try your best to secure summer internships and a placement because the job market is hard and this will make it a lot easier.

Finally I can't remember when school/college starts however you will take your a-levels in like 2 years, I assume you have just started kind of, if you really want to do further maths than just beg your college i genuinely think they would if you cry hard enough ahaha but you don't really need it. I just looked at a random university for example nottingham all it says is you need 3-alevels lol it doesn't even list physics (although you will need that haha it'll be somewhere on the course catalogue or ucas lol) and that's a top uni is it not? idk but it most likely has a solid physics programme 🙂

theres also quite a few jobs in nuclear now so that might be something you want to look at your university and if they offer a few nuclear modules.

But yeh sorry i've written too much and it's probably got a lot of typos as i don't go back to check but please don't be discouraged, you will be fine without further maths, just focus on getting the best a-levels you can and you will be fine wherever you end up studying physics.
(edited 8 months ago)

Reply 12

Original post by kitkatya789
I did physics, chemistry and design&tech lol, I had to do a foundation year at a top10 uni though thats a caveat, the reason I didn't do a-level maths was because I just struggled in school and I had undiagnosed ADHD but I was good at physics and also maths however I just didn't realise it yet for maths as i had personal problems at home/school and for my maths education in secondary school was awful so i was a little behind so it stunted my learning (i also didnt have a plethora of internet resources like you do now).
^ thats the 'caveats' out of the way
As for your situation please DO NOT think you cannot do physics because you don't have further maths it's actual insanity (who is saying this), yes I did need to learn the necessary maths required which i did in my foundation year but it was not as extensive or difficult as a-level maths which i self taught myself some of it anyway to support myself further.
From the sounds of your GCSE grades you clearly are intelligent, the most important thing right now is to translate that success you have into a-levles (also figure out how you learn best if you haven't already as you probably already know with a-levels you do need to understand not memorise). So focus on your a-levels, you have physics and maths and that's all you need to get into physics obviously you'll need a third a-level too so don't flunk that haha.
If I can graduate from a top10 university with no a-level in maths (yes i did a foundation year) you can! In first year they know many students come from different backgrounds so they try to teach everyone to get them on the same page until it gets much harder in second year. I promise you won't be at a disadvantage perhaps speak to physics students at the universities you're interested (i'd hope they say the same thing). Physics can get very maths heavy dependant on what you do, I have a more stronger background in material science and quantum physics and ofc there is maths haha but it's not that bad and you will be taught.
I found my physics degree hard but I made it through and I did have to work harder than my peers to 'catch up' and battle my learning difficulty with ADHD and figure out how I learn but I got through it, and employability wise I've done two placements with 2 different companies (and hope to start a grad role in sep 2025 im on a gapish year atm haha but i get interviews very fast). You genuinely sound intelligent and most people on my course we all graduated. That being said it is a little harder to find employment as a physicist (despite being able to enter more fields) as engineering is much better job-wise and i'd argue easier than physics (concept wise). You may also realise that academia is not for you, before I started I wanted to be a fancy academic either in astrophysics like yourself or something quantum related and now i dont want to at all. Not writing it off but many students after university are so done with academics haha.
As for teaching yourself, it's a waste of time in my opinion enjoy your summer however, if you are keen you can maybe contact your uni? and ask them if there's anything over summer you can do however again theres plenty of resources on youtube. I doubt you'll be able to access module specifications but if it's available online look at that and just get a textbook or youtube (all first year stuff will be on youtube haha). I doubt many uni's will say much they'll ask you to enjoy your summer break I know my lecturers would say that (unprofessionally lol).
But yeh key takeaway.
Get good a-levels grades, get into any university with a decent physics programme tbh most/all UK uni's will be good for physics just check the modules and see if it's what you like. Just remember like what I said in my old message university is a clean slate it's about what you do there that matters. You do not need further maths and you will be taught what you need to know as you go through the programme, I didn't do a-level maths at all lol (well i did but i had to drop it so only did it to AS level). Whilst at university do try to rackup internships such as working as a lab assistant at the uni or something and try your best to secure summer internships and a placement because the job market is hard and this will make it a lot easier.
Finally I can't remember when school/college starts however you will take your a-levels in like 2 years, I assume you have just started kind of, if you really want to do further maths than just beg your college i genuinely think they would if you cry hard enough ahaha but you don't really need it. I just looked at a random university for example nottingham all it says is you need 3-alevels lol it doesn't even list physics (although you will need that haha it'll be somewhere on the course catalogue or ucas lol) and that's a top uni is it not? idk but it most likely has a solid physics programme 🙂
theres also quite a few jobs in nuclear now so that might be something you want to look at your university and if they offer a few nuclear modules.
But yeh sorry i've written too much and it's probably got a lot of typos as i don't go back to check but please don't be discouraged, you will be fine without further maths, just focus on getting the best a-levels you can and you will be fine wherever you end up studying physics.

Thankyou, it’s much better hearing this from someone who actually did a physics degree thanrandompeople who didn’t who discouraged me.Yes I have emailed many universities (like nottingham as you mentioned.. also leicester,manchester, birmingham etc) because i panicked and they all said i did not need it as it’s taught in the first year due to different backgrounds so i didn’t need to worry.
I didn’t take it as i thought yes it would help in the first semester alot.. but i didn’t want to put myself into a position of stress for two years with doing it at alevel and end upgetting a bad grade where i won't meet entry requirements as i know it’s a demanding alevel even though they teach it later on from scratch anyways if that makes sense. I guess the people saying this thought i’d apply to somewhere like oxbridge/imperial lol (i’m not!).
And Yes! Thankyou i’ve already started revising ,making notes etc to prepare myself later on so it’s not too stressful. But wow congrats on your degree and employment’s, you worked really hard i can tell. . Yes i’ve heard that it’s quite hard to find a job with physics, i’ve tried looking at engineering too but perhaps ill change my mind in a year time before i apply, who knows.
But anyways thankyou so much for the advice, ireally appreciate it this helps a lot!!!

Reply 13

Original post by maryam!!
Thankyou, it’s much better hearing this from someone who actually did a physics degree thanrandompeople who didn’t who discouraged me.Yes I have emailed many universities (like nottingham as you mentioned.. also leicester,manchester, birmingham etc) because i panicked and they all said i did not need it as it’s taught in the first year due to different backgrounds so i didn’t need to worry.
I didn’t take it as i thought yes it would help in the first semester alot.. but i didn’t want to put myself into a position of stress for two years with doing it at alevel and end upgetting a bad grade where i won't meet entry requirements as i know it’s a demanding alevel even though they teach it later on from scratch anyways if that makes sense. I guess the people saying this thought i’d apply to somewhere like oxbridge/imperial lol (i’m not!).
And Yes! Thankyou i’ve already started revising ,making notes etc to prepare myself later on so it’s not too stressful. But wow congrats on your degree and employment’s, you worked really hard i can tell. . Yes i’ve heard that it’s quite hard to find a job with physics, i’ve tried looking at engineering too but perhaps ill change my mind in a year time before i apply, who knows.
But anyways thankyou so much for the advice, ireally appreciate it this helps a lot!!!

No problem! Tbh even some top uni's well maybe oxbridge but minus those two i don't think even other top uni's require further maths it's quite bizarre and even if they say that they always end up taking many students without FM but yeah any decent university for physics will be fine.

I wouldn't say it's hard to find a job in physics well i can let you know next year xD, but it is more harder than engineering, don't let that put you off either but the earlier you figure out what you want to do the better you can tailor physics modules and uni's to it but unfortunately for most people this changes and i found out until way into my degree what i wanted to do.

But yeah main thing is just to focus on your a-levels really, good luck.

Reply 14

Original post by maryam!!
This is really a relief to hear, may i ask what alevels you did?
I’m taking Physics, Maths and geography alevels and want to apply for a physics/astro degree. I was originally going to take further maths than geography but felt discouraged and now i can’t really switch, i thought id get a better grade in geography therefore meet entry requirements for unis and thought further would draw my attention back from other subjects but im honestly not sure anymore, i still enjoy geography however. With 988887777 at gcse i was still asked why i didn’t pick further as i was ‘capable’.
I’ve been told by so many people so far that id be put at a huge disadvantage and not regret doing it later on especially at university when other people have done it, honestly makes me feel bad as i’ve just started year 12. I’ve also read someone say to not bother doing a physics degree if i didn’t bother doing further maths at alevel as physics is ofcourse a very maths intense degree. I feel like a lot of people are over exaggerating but i can’t tell. Anyways.. i’m thinking of self teaching some fm the summer before uni to ease the transition, do you recommend this? Also, how have you found your physics degree? I honestly can’t wait to start mine.

girlll(im assuming hopefully..) im in the same space i do maths physics art and spanish(native language kinda? got 8 without lessons at gcse
and got 8777777766 and since starting skl ive decided im rlly into physics and want to study it aswell,have u found more info since posting this?

Reply 15

Original post by kitkatya789
You don't need FM trust me, it doesn't even help with university even if you do that kind of maths later on it's all taught. Do what is best for you! I've graduated with a master's in physics and no further maths. I don't know anything about private schools, what do your teachers there say? It's a bit odd to judge from which school you came from but i'm not fully aware of the admissions process. You can definately get into a good physics programme / university with those grades o_O much better than mine and I still got into a top 10 uni.
Just remember university is a clean slate, once you get into university your past doesn't matter as much and for most jobs/careers it's about what you do there, achieve and hopefully job experience/placements.

Which uni did you go? I made a post on reddit about doing a physics degree without fm and they all told me it's nearly impossible to get into cambridge, imperial etc without it.

Quick Reply