The Student Room Group

Should other subjects follow Medicine as a more linear career model?

Should other subjects, from Pharmaceutical Science or Biochemistry, through to History and Philosophy, follow a more linear career orientated model in a similar fashion to how Medicine is contrived? Each place on selected degrees would lead to a near guaranteed job after graduation in a particular field with a reputable participating employer? The idea behind this would be to reduce the number of graduates in degree subjects that don't significantly increase earnings or boost job prospects in a saturated job market?

The above could be achieved through degree apprenticeships, but on a wider scale than what is currently seen.
(edited 10 months ago)
Original post by Physician
Should other subjects, from Pharmaceutical Science or Biochemistry, through to History and Philosophy, follow a more linear career orientated model in a similar fashion to how Medicine is contrived? Each place on selected degrees would lead to a near guaranteed job after graduation in a particular field with a reputable participating employer? The idea behind this would be to reduce the number of graduates in degree subjects that don't significantly increase earnings or boost job prospects in a saturated job market?
The above could be achieved through degree apprenticeships, but on a wider scale than what is currently seen.

Probably. Most students apply for a degree because of the employment prospects that come with the degree, as opposed to other more appropriate reasons.

I have come across a number of students who upon graduation switched fields, primarily because either:

The fields are too competitive to get a job

The salary in the job is too low to sustain any reasonable living (especially in the current and foreseeable future)

The employment and work isn't as satisfying or meet the initial impression of what they thought it was like

Fostering better relationships between universities and employers would have reduced the likelihood of students getting the wrong expectations of the fields that they thought they want to get into. Students can also get up to date information on the conditions of the current job market (as you have implied).

If you want students to go into academia, for which the degrees were initially designed for, then you would want to give students the certainty that they would be able to secure a place in academia upon finishing the degree. Leaving students to their own devices can kill off a lot of motivation.

Having said that though, a large number of degrees aren't even necessary to enter specific fields, yet students persistently expect to have to complete a degree in order to get a job in said field. The fact that students are oversold on the employment prospects that a degree can bring can be a deterrent to future student enrolment as well as a detriment to the universities' reputations.
I then get annoyed whenever a graduate then wonders why he/she isn't able to get a job, despite getting a 1st class degree in a difficult but useful subject with straight A*s at A Levels and straight 9s at GCSEs. It's not how the world works and it's not how employment works, and they don't seem to have a clue on how things actually work. They have been sold misinformation about education. The more linear career model would straighten a lot of these issues out.

Then you have a minority of students who study a subject for the pure love of the subject, who don't necessarily do it for employment prospects. These students need to be accounted for and what options that should be provided for them.

I am not entirely sure how the economics of higher education would pan out though. My current thoughts would be that:

universities can end up getting less funding in some subjects and throughout the uni overall

more would be uni students would have entered the job market earlier, thereby increasing tax revenues

there would be less burden on student finance, and thereby allow more funding to be channelled into universities (if the government bodies end up doing so) as well as into securing job posts that do require degrees

outstanding student loans that are never expected to be fully repaid (because the jobs that students get with the degrees don't command salaries that even meet minimum requirements to repay the loans) would less likely to be issued to students, which can promote a decline for those subjects being taught at universities

the smaller student population may mean the university facilities would be cut back, which can improve quality of education due to better attention paid to individual students vs less facilities to improve research - particularly relevant in light on current news on university finances, especially after Brexit and the decline of international student populations

less competition for places at uni and into research posts, and attract students who want to do the degree because of their love of the subject, because they want to go into academia, because they need the degree for the specific job that they want, or a combination.

less mobility and movement across countries for academic and job purposes

Possible things that I think people should note with your idea:

Most of the degrees that do require a degree (as opposed to gaining a professional qualification or getting into a degree apprenticeship) tend to be those in the public sector - so quite fitting

Job prospects do not only depend on academic performance (if relevant at all); personality tests and aptitude tests would likely be required prior to enrolling onto degree courses under the above idea - psychometric tests having a number of issues regarding their validity, effectiveness, and measuring what they are supposed to measure

The education sector would drastically shrink along with the public finance that fund the sector

Some academic subjects should still be available to be taught at university, even if they don't produce a positive return in terms of job prospects

The material taught in universities would likely be more tailored to what is required in the job as opposed to what academics want to teach

A number of jobs in the public sector tend to train their staff in house as opposed to requesting job candidates to have degrees, which can imply it's often cheaper and faster for employers to have their own training schemes

Professional qualifications are known to be more useful, applicable, and practical than knowledge in academic degrees. These qualifications are also usually cheaper and require less time to complete than a degree. However, there would also be nuances that need to be noted because the qualifications would sometimes only be relevant for specific roles within a specific sector.

A number of degrees across different universities are already accredited by specific professional bodies for job purposes. Those that aren't tend to be more academic degrees and more suited for academic purposes.

There would be less flexibility and freedom to what academics teach, and how universities administer their qualifications.

Should students decide not to pursue their subject in the appropriate occupation for their degree post qualification, there should be support provided for students to change fields. What should be provided

Under the scheme, students would need to provided appropriate and extensive career information prior to enrolling onto the degree of their choice

Also, where possible, students are likely required to undertake appropriate work experience suitable for their degree of choice prior to their enrolment for their degree. If most of the jobs that require degrees are in the public sector, what steps should the government take to provide work placements for these candidates?

(edited 10 months ago)

Reply 2

Original post by MindMax2000
Probably. Most students apply for a degree because of the employment prospects that come with the degree, as opposed to other more appropriate reasons.
I have come across a number of students who upon graduation switched fields, primarily because either:

The fields are too competitive to get a job

The salary in the job is too low to sustain any reasonable living (especially in the current and foreseeable future)

The employment and work isn't as satisfying or meet the initial impression of what they thought it was like

Fostering better relationships between universities and employers would have reduced the likelihood of students getting the wrong expectations of the fields that they thought they want to get into. Students can also get up to date information on the conditions of the current job market (as you have implied).
If you want students to go into academia, for which the degrees were initially designed for, then you would want to give students the certainty that they would be able to secure a place in academia upon finishing the degree. Leaving students to their own devices can kill off a lot of motivation.
Having said that though, a large number of degrees aren't even necessary to enter specific fields, yet students persistently expect to have to complete a degree in order to get a job in said field. The fact that students are oversold on the employment prospects that a degree can bring can be a deterrent to future student enrolment as well as a detriment to the universities' reputations.
I then get annoyed whenever a graduate then wonders why he/she isn't able to get a job, despite getting a 1st class degree in a difficult but useful subject with straight A*s at A Levels and straight 9s at GCSEs. It's not how the world works and it's not how employment works, and they don't seem to have a clue on how things actually work. They have been sold misinformation about education. The more linear career model would straighten a lot of these issues out.
Then you have a minority of students who study a subject for the pure love of the subject, who don't necessarily do it for employment prospects. These students need to be accounted for and what options that should be provided for them.
I am not entirely sure how the economics of higher education would pan out though. My current thoughts would be that:

universities can end up getting less funding in some subjects and throughout the uni overall

more would be uni students would have entered the job market earlier, thereby increasing tax revenues

there would be less burden on student finance, and thereby allow more funding to be channelled into universities (if the government bodies end up doing so) as well as into securing job posts that do require degrees

outstanding student loans that are never expected to be fully repaid (because the jobs that students get with the degrees don't command salaries that even meet minimum requirements to repay the loans) would less likely to be issued to students, which can promote a decline for those subjects being taught at universities

the smaller student population may mean the university facilities would be cut back, which can improve quality of education due to better attention paid to individual students vs less facilities to improve research - particularly relevant in light on current news on university finances, especially after Brexit and the decline of international student populations

less competition for places at uni and into research posts, and attract students who want to do the degree because of their love of the subject, because they want to go into academia, because they need the degree for the specific job that they want, or a combination.

less mobility and movement across countries for academic and job purposes

Possible things that I think people should note with your idea:

Most of the degrees that do require a degree (as opposed to gaining a professional qualification or getting into a degree apprenticeship) tend to be those in the public sector - so quite fitting

Job prospects do not only depend on academic performance (if relevant at all); personality tests and aptitude tests would likely be required prior to enrolling onto degree courses under the above idea - psychometric tests having a number of issues regarding their validity, effectiveness, and measuring what they are supposed to measure

The education sector would drastically shrink along with the public finance that fund the sector

Some academic subjects should still be available to be taught at university, even if they don't produce a positive return in terms of job prospects

The material taught in universities would likely be more tailored to what is required in the job as opposed to what academics want to teach

A number of jobs in the public sector tend to train their staff in house as opposed to requesting job candidates to have degrees, which can imply it's often cheaper and faster for employers to have their own training schemes

Professional qualifications are known to be more useful, applicable, and practical than knowledge in academic degrees. These qualifications are also usually cheaper and require less time to complete than a degree. However, there would also be nuances that need to be noted because the qualifications would sometimes only be relevant for specific roles within a specific sector.

A number of degrees across different universities are already accredited by specific professional bodies for job purposes. Those that aren't tend to be more academic degrees and more suited for academic purposes.

There would be less flexibility and freedom to what academics teach, and how universities administer their qualifications.

Should students decide not to pursue their subject in the appropriate occupation for their degree post qualification, there should be support provided for students to change fields. What should be provided

Under the scheme, students would need to provided appropriate and extensive career information prior to enrolling onto the degree of their choice

Also, where possible, students are likely required to undertake appropriate work experience suitable for their degree of choice prior to their enrolment for their degree. If most of the jobs that require degrees are in the public sector, what steps should the government take to provide work placements for these candidates?


This is a response worthy of distinction.

I think the most realistic way for universities to proceed is to offer many more apprenticeships, and select the best students for them. The rest would have to follow the current model, and get work experience through interns or summer jobs as they currently do.
(edited 10 months ago)
Original post by Physician
This is a response worthy of distinction.
I think the most realistic way for universities to proceed is to offer many more apprenticeships, and select the best students for them. The rest would have to follow the current model, and get work experience through interns or summer jobs as they currently do.

This is a response worthy of distinction.
Thanks.

I think the most realistic way for universities to proceed is to offer many more apprenticeships, and select the best students for them. The rest would have to follow the current model, and get work experience through interns or summer jobs as they currently do.
In which case, I think it's more appropriate to ask what it the purpose of the change and who it's for precisely.

If you are just catering to a handful of students who would be most likely to get a job, then you haven't addressed the more prevalent and widespread issue i.e. graduates not getting the jobs that they studied for, if they get a job at all.

The limiting constraint currently (in my opinion) is that there is unlikely to be enough graduate level jobs to go around, especially for those who want to go into the same field that they studied for. The amount of work experience and number of internships currently don't even meet the current number of students studying the courses suited for the line of work.

Even if you max out on the number of apprenticeships that you can get employers to take on, you are still unlikely going to meet the number of uni students studying for their respective subjects.

A typical accounting role in one of the biggest firms in the world has 1000 applicants for one role. A reputable investment bank has an acceptance rate of 2%. The acceptance rates for some companies are higher, but they aren't that much better than universities' acceptance rates for students. I unfortunately have difficulty finding the data to support the above. However, according to the following, there is a 12% unemployment rate for graduates in 2021:
https://standout-cv.com/uk-graduate-statistics#unemployed-graduates-uk

More than 1/10 graduates don't get jobs (be it graduate level jobs or lower) and are not looking for further education (which a number can default in going into when they can't find any employment).

If you want to address the issue that is prevailing amongst the masses, then I think we need an alternative solution. If you want to address the issue that is more in line with employment expectations and job requirements then your solution would be suitable, but it would only help a selection of students as opposed to the whole.

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