Is medicine a bad career to go into?
I've heard people online say that medicine is no longer a good job. Incredibly high competition ratios, poor working conditions, and many doctors are like struggling to find a job or something? The thing is, I can't picture myself going into jobs related to computer science, like being a software engineer, etc. I've already committed so much time to my uni application for medicine, but I don't want to regret my degree in 5 years' time. I want to become a doctor and spend my time surrounded by biology, learn about anatomy, use medical technology etc, but how can I do all this without being sleep deprived and also have good pay? And computer science is really competitive too, so I doubt I'll make it to a good university considering my lack of achievements in that field. I just wanted to ask whether medicine is like a sustainable job for the future? I know computer science jobs are going to grow by like 22% by 2030, but will this be the same case for medicine? I know people cannot predict the future, but is there any statistic showing that there'll be more jobs for medicine in the future? I'm just sort of trying to find comfort in statistics now because I don't want to believe my life's worth of work has been for nothing.
Original post by Anonymous
I've heard people online say that medicine is no longer a good job. Incredibly high competition ratios, poor working conditions, and many doctors are like struggling to find a job or something? The thing is, I can't picture myself going into jobs related to computer science, like being a software engineer, etc. I've already committed so much time to my uni application for medicine, but I don't want to regret my degree in 5 years' time. I want to become a doctor and spend my time surrounded by biology, learn about anatomy, use medical technology etc, but how can I do all this without being sleep deprived and also have good pay? And computer science is really competitive too, so I doubt I'll make it to a good university considering my lack of achievements in that field. I just wanted to ask whether medicine is like a sustainable job for the future? I know computer science jobs are going to grow by like 22% by 2030, but will this be the same case for medicine? I know people cannot predict the future, but is there any statistic showing that there'll be more jobs for medicine in the future? I'm just sort of trying to find comfort in statistics now because I don't want to believe my life's worth of work has been for nothing.
I can’t help you with any statistics but I can give you some advice that I was given. When shadowing doctors in general surgery, virtually every doctor and healthcare professional I spoke to told me that if you can imagine doing something other than medicine, don’t do medicine. Ultimately, whether it’s worth it or not really depends on where your interests lie. It’s important to draw a distinction between having a passion for medical science and wanting to become a doctor. You can surround yourself with medical science, technology, biology and anatomy in different ways. If you’re having second thoughts about medicine, look into other degrees that would best suit your interests. Here are a few suggestions based on what you seem to be interested in:
Biomedical Engineering
Biomedical Science
Chemical Engineering
Anatomy, Development and Human Biology
Medical Science
Statistics
Data Science
Biology
Biochemistry
Pharmacology
Neuroscience
Immunology
Genetics
Pharmacy
Population Health Sciences
Global or Public Health
I agree that it is a big decision to make. If you’re going to study medicine at undergraduate level, you need to be 100% committed to studying medicine and becoming a doctor. It is incredibly competitive, but that’s not to say that graduate entry medicine is any less competitive. At least with graduate entry medicine, studying something else may make you more passionate and certain about studying medicine. Have you attended or watched any lectures? Have you gone to subject talks for medicine at open days? If not, this may be a good place to start. I wouldn’t worry about medicine not being a sustainable job - there will always be a demand for doctors in the NHS. The issue is not the lack of sustainability it’s the lack of funding and training opportunities for aspiring medics (competing for either undergraduate or graduate medicine places) and current junior doctors (hoping to become consultants or enter specialist training posts). This is slowly improving with the new Labour government, but the issues with the NHS are systemic unfortunately.
I'm an ICU nurse and prior to that I was a mechanic for 10 years. I have a better life now. More free time, better pay, actual benefits (healthcare, retirement). I even do web development as a hobby.
My friend went to a coding bootcamp back when that when you could still get an entry level job with that 6 month certificate. He makes six figures now as a dev ops engineer. Smart guy and works hard.
I spent two years in nursing school which was hard as hell and the hospital work has been just mentally and physically exhausting. 3 days of taking care of confused and combative people or dealing with angry family or cleaning diarrhea for 12 hours straight just absolutely grinds you down.
I certainly don't make six figures. As for my friends who are nurse practitioners they have a laundry list of complaints. If you got for a medical degree it's going to be long and hard but Drs in the long run seem to have the better work conditions and pay. Just takes a lot of work to get there.
Id I could do it over I'd have gone with computer science but now we have AI to worry about coming for that job while skilled labor is going to be much harder to replace. There isn't any data online or in books to prepare you for stuff that happens in the field for AI to "train" on.
My friend went to a coding bootcamp back when that when you could still get an entry level job with that 6 month certificate. He makes six figures now as a dev ops engineer. Smart guy and works hard.
I spent two years in nursing school which was hard as hell and the hospital work has been just mentally and physically exhausting. 3 days of taking care of confused and combative people or dealing with angry family or cleaning diarrhea for 12 hours straight just absolutely grinds you down.
I certainly don't make six figures. As for my friends who are nurse practitioners they have a laundry list of complaints. If you got for a medical degree it's going to be long and hard but Drs in the long run seem to have the better work conditions and pay. Just takes a lot of work to get there.
Id I could do it over I'd have gone with computer science but now we have AI to worry about coming for that job while skilled labor is going to be much harder to replace. There isn't any data online or in books to prepare you for stuff that happens in the field for AI to "train" on.
People will always be getting sick and always needing treatment by doctors. In fact with an increasingly aging and frail population (which not only requires healthcare for longer, has increasingly complex healthcare needs and will more frequently require healthcare interventions), there's probably going to be more demand in future rather than less...unless you have some other explanation to square away the continual reports of "NHS under strain for demand for services" with your assertion (which I think is taking certain specific matters out of context and generalising it incorrectly) that there aren't enough jobs for doctors (even ignoring the fact that it is in a number of specialties possible to move to other countries to continue practicing if you decide the situation in the UK really is bad).
As I understand the issues around medics getting jobs for the most part have in most cases much less to do with the demand side of what is required to meet the healthcare needs of the country - it's from the supply side of the NHS (or rather the government via the NHS) funding those services and creating posts sufficient to provide them. Outside of a couple of anomalous outliers (neurosurgery and cardiac surgery being the major ones, for various reasons), there is certainly demand for most medical specialties at the consultant level, but poor funding models for GPs, lack of training posts being created for areas in need of consultants like radiology and neurology, and issues with bottlenecks in training for areas like anaesthetics contribute to the challenges in pursuing the career.
Outside of those handful of areas, there is definitely a need for more consultants in most specialties - some may be a bit more competitive in certain regions but if you're able to move to some extent I imagine for most specialties it's probable you could find a consultant post. GP is probably a more complex picture, and the aforementioned cardiac and neurosurgery have more trainees than consultant posts.
Also worth noting that while competition ratios are often high for many specialties, many of those specialties still routinely have unfilled posts in the end - this is due in part to medics applying to multiple specialties at once which drives up the competition ratio i.e. applicants per post, but ultimately they will only accept one post. So the actual picture for recruitment in some specialties may be less gloomy than competition ratios suggest. Of course some have high competition ratios and fill most if not all posts routinely and so genuinely are competitive.
Pay is a bit of a complicated one I think, but it's worth looking at things in context. While yes, doctors (particularly junior doctors) have seen a real pay cut over the last ~14 years or so of austerity and inflation (which is why junior doctors are striking for pay restoration to equivalent levels), and relative to the length of their academic training and their responsibilities the pay especially for e.g. foundation doctors is quite low compared to what you might expect. But due consider this against the bigger picture: medicine currently (just about, unlike pretty much any sector, guarantees a job on graduation, and that job has guaranteed pay progression each year if you continue progressing through training directly (which granted, does not always happen like that!). The salaries for consultants are also more than enough to live comfortably on in most areas of the UK outside of very expensive cities like London, Cambridge, Bristol and the like. No, you probably aren't going to be living in a mcmansion and driving a sportscar most likely - but that's true of the vast majority of graduates.
It's also worth grounding this against the reality of employment in the computing sector - it's very competitive now, simply having a CS degree absolutely will not guarantee you a job in the sector at all on graduation, much less an extremely high paying one, and many roles do not pay eye watering google level salaries. Plenty of CS grads are going to go into much more "routine" roles at lower pay points, and due to the continued myth of CS having great job prospects (when in reality they were so bad for so long, the government commissioned two inquiries into the matter), the market for graduates who could go into those roles is very saturated.
Realistically if you want to go into medicine for other reasons, it also still offers a relatively secure job plan with good long term pay and benefits (the latter not to be ignored - the NHS has a very good pension scheme which is worth real value in the long run, whereas private sector roles will have much worse pension schemes and require a comparably higher income to match what you would get out of an NHS pension) outside of a couple of small areas. However by all accounts the years as a junior doctor seem very challenging and require a lot of commitment and some self-sacrifice. Whether that is something you feel is an acceptable trade off is up to you - and for some people its not (and they would be better pursuing other areas as a result!).
As I understand the issues around medics getting jobs for the most part have in most cases much less to do with the demand side of what is required to meet the healthcare needs of the country - it's from the supply side of the NHS (or rather the government via the NHS) funding those services and creating posts sufficient to provide them. Outside of a couple of anomalous outliers (neurosurgery and cardiac surgery being the major ones, for various reasons), there is certainly demand for most medical specialties at the consultant level, but poor funding models for GPs, lack of training posts being created for areas in need of consultants like radiology and neurology, and issues with bottlenecks in training for areas like anaesthetics contribute to the challenges in pursuing the career.
Outside of those handful of areas, there is definitely a need for more consultants in most specialties - some may be a bit more competitive in certain regions but if you're able to move to some extent I imagine for most specialties it's probable you could find a consultant post. GP is probably a more complex picture, and the aforementioned cardiac and neurosurgery have more trainees than consultant posts.
Also worth noting that while competition ratios are often high for many specialties, many of those specialties still routinely have unfilled posts in the end - this is due in part to medics applying to multiple specialties at once which drives up the competition ratio i.e. applicants per post, but ultimately they will only accept one post. So the actual picture for recruitment in some specialties may be less gloomy than competition ratios suggest. Of course some have high competition ratios and fill most if not all posts routinely and so genuinely are competitive.
Pay is a bit of a complicated one I think, but it's worth looking at things in context. While yes, doctors (particularly junior doctors) have seen a real pay cut over the last ~14 years or so of austerity and inflation (which is why junior doctors are striking for pay restoration to equivalent levels), and relative to the length of their academic training and their responsibilities the pay especially for e.g. foundation doctors is quite low compared to what you might expect. But due consider this against the bigger picture: medicine currently (just about, unlike pretty much any sector, guarantees a job on graduation, and that job has guaranteed pay progression each year if you continue progressing through training directly (which granted, does not always happen like that!). The salaries for consultants are also more than enough to live comfortably on in most areas of the UK outside of very expensive cities like London, Cambridge, Bristol and the like. No, you probably aren't going to be living in a mcmansion and driving a sportscar most likely - but that's true of the vast majority of graduates.
It's also worth grounding this against the reality of employment in the computing sector - it's very competitive now, simply having a CS degree absolutely will not guarantee you a job in the sector at all on graduation, much less an extremely high paying one, and many roles do not pay eye watering google level salaries. Plenty of CS grads are going to go into much more "routine" roles at lower pay points, and due to the continued myth of CS having great job prospects (when in reality they were so bad for so long, the government commissioned two inquiries into the matter), the market for graduates who could go into those roles is very saturated.
Realistically if you want to go into medicine for other reasons, it also still offers a relatively secure job plan with good long term pay and benefits (the latter not to be ignored - the NHS has a very good pension scheme which is worth real value in the long run, whereas private sector roles will have much worse pension schemes and require a comparably higher income to match what you would get out of an NHS pension) outside of a couple of small areas. However by all accounts the years as a junior doctor seem very challenging and require a lot of commitment and some self-sacrifice. Whether that is something you feel is an acceptable trade off is up to you - and for some people its not (and they would be better pursuing other areas as a result!).
if i were you, i would stay in medicine. other careers have downsides as well. i don't know if there is a perfect career. people might be quiet about the positive aspects of their careers.
Dentistry.
Original post by Anonymous
I've heard people online say that medicine is no longer a good job. Incredibly high competition ratios, poor working conditions, and many doctors are like struggling to find a job or something? The thing is, I can't picture myself going into jobs related to computer science, like being a software engineer, etc. I've already committed so much time to my uni application for medicine, but I don't want to regret my degree in 5 years' time. I want to become a doctor and spend my time surrounded by biology, learn about anatomy, use medical technology etc, but how can I do all this without being sleep deprived and also have good pay? And computer science is really competitive too, so I doubt I'll make it to a good university considering my lack of achievements in that field. I just wanted to ask whether medicine is like a sustainable job for the future? I know computer science jobs are going to grow by like 22% by 2030, but will this be the same case for medicine? I know people cannot predict the future, but is there any statistic showing that there'll be more jobs for medicine in the future? I'm just sort of trying to find comfort in statistics now because I don't want to believe my life's worth of work has been for nothing.
I personally think you should stay in med if you think you enjoy it. There will be a higher demand, there could be more illnesses like Covid, we have an ageing population and you could even reach that because of climate change there will be more natural disasters and so more people in hospital. We will always need doctors. In terms of pay the strikes have given pay rises recently and by the time we become F1 doctors they'll probably go up again (fingers crossed). There are so many things to specialise in, like GP and Anaesthetics I think have much better work-life balance. You can also train part time (clearly less money but then it's flexible for other life commitments if you chose to do so).
It seems like you like bio, so even if you don't want to be a doctor at the end you can go into research easily. There are loads of jobs out there that also only need you t have done a degree, and clearly medicine is a highly respected one due to the commitment. Biggest downfall to med I'd say is the debt if you do decide not to become a doctor.
And yes computing is competitive, if you don't think you'll be able to prepare adequately/have right qualifications it may be difficult to get in this year.
Original post by Anonymous
I personally think you should stay in med if you think you enjoy it. There will be a higher demand, there could be more illnesses like Covid, we have an ageing population and you could even reach that because of climate change there will be more natural disasters and so more people in hospital. We will always need doctors. In terms of pay the strikes have given pay rises recently and by the time we become F1 doctors they'll probably go up again (fingers crossed). There are so many things to specialise in, like GP and Anaesthetics I think have much better work-life balance. You can also train part time (clearly less money but then it's flexible for other life commitments if you chose to do so).
It seems like you like bio, so even if you don't want to be a doctor at the end you can go into research easily. There are loads of jobs out there that also only need you t have done a degree, and clearly medicine is a highly respected one due to the commitment. Biggest downfall to med I'd say is the debt if you do decide not to become a doctor.
And yes computing is competitive, if you don't think you'll be able to prepare adequately/have right qualifications it may be difficult to get in this year.
It seems like you like bio, so even if you don't want to be a doctor at the end you can go into research easily. There are loads of jobs out there that also only need you t have done a degree, and clearly medicine is a highly respected one due to the commitment. Biggest downfall to med I'd say is the debt if you do decide not to become a doctor.
And yes computing is competitive, if you don't think you'll be able to prepare adequately/have right qualifications it may be difficult to get in this year.
"Biggest downfall to med I'd say is the debt if you do decide not to become a doctor"
Could you please explain what you meant by this... the cost of the 5-6 years of education?
Original post by AJ0005
"Biggest downfall to med I'd say is the debt if you do decide not to become a doctor"
Could you please explain what you meant by this... the cost of the 5-6 years of education?
Could you please explain what you meant by this... the cost of the 5-6 years of education?
From my understanding of the financial system is that Medicine is a 5-6 year degree, which means more years worth or student loans, therefore more to eventually pay back (at least from what I’ve seen online/from others). Therefore more debt. If you do the 6 year degree then qualify as a doctor after Foundation years and then choose NOT to be a doctor as your career and do something else, you’ve collected a lot more debt to pay than other degrees. So from a financial standpoint if you’re not committed to a career in Medicine and then drop out of being a doctor you’ll have a lot of money to pay back which may feel like a waste (even though med is so respected it’d be fine when transferring to other careers or degrees and you could end up getting a high paying job to help pay the debt back, but odds are lower for that). From my perspective it’d be an annoyance to do the long degree and lots of money for it then to not be a straightforward path of going straight into a career as a doctor as it may feel unstable otherwise for money and career prospects.
Long story short med school accumulates a lot of debt, if you drop out of the career it feels like wasted money, even if the skills are transferable.
Make sure now that you’d be fairly happy working as a doctor (and remember some specialities like pathology are more lab based and less people centred if that’s your worry).
And also emphasis on this being my opinion of a disadvantage for med
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