The Student Room Group

RAF Pilot after Cambridge CS

Hi Guys,

Just looking for help in deciding what to do with my life. Firstly, I know the pilot application process is highly selective - let's say I do make it through.

Knowing the heinous state of the CS job market and the decreasing value of university degrees in all fields, if we set aside my personal desire and passion to become a fast-jet pilot, is it a waste of my degree? Am I basically throwing away the "potential 6 figure salaries" or are they simply no longer as common as once thought? I feel like most of these jobs are held by a vocal minority of the absolute top of CS students (even despite the Cambridge name, not sure how much weight it actually pulls in this market these days). I've seen the RAF pay scales and they seem quite good at Flt Lt+, how much does quality of life compare there to the average CS graduate job?

The commitment to the RAF of course would be a long time not doing anything related to CS essentially, does this basically nullify my three years at Cambridge in the future? Does it even matter - would progressing into being a commercial pilot be a similar quality of life (another field in which salaries appear to be high)

I understand this might be a bit of a mix of a post in terms of topic and maybe misinformed, but hoping I can get some sort of help in direction - feeling pretty anxious about post university plans. How stupid am I guys, tell me below
Original post by szcheff
Hi Guys,
Just looking for help in deciding what to do with my life. Firstly, I know the pilot application process is highly selective - let's say I do make it through.
Knowing the heinous state of the CS job market and the decreasing value of university degrees in all fields, if we set aside my personal desire and passion to become a fast-jet pilot, is it a waste of my degree? Am I basically throwing away the "potential 6 figure salaries" or are they simply no longer as common as once thought? I feel like most of these jobs are held by a vocal minority of the absolute top of CS students (even despite the Cambridge name, not sure how much weight it actually pulls in this market these days). I've seen the RAF pay scales and they seem quite good at Flt Lt+, how much does quality of life compare there to the average CS graduate job?
The commitment to the RAF of course would be a long time not doing anything related to CS essentially, does this basically nullify my three years at Cambridge in the future? Does it even matter - would progressing into being a commercial pilot be a similar quality of life (another field in which salaries appear to be high)
I understand this might be a bit of a mix of a post in terms of topic and maybe misinformed, but hoping I can get some sort of help in direction - feeling pretty anxious about post university plans. How stupid am I guys, tell me below

First of all quite a few Cam grads join the RAF. But if you join the RAF, particularly as Aircrew, you have picked your career, your degree is irrelevant, you are in the RAF with all that means. Your best plan at the moment would seem to be to apply to Cam, and while at uni, join the University Air Squadron, and that will give you a taste of service life. It should then be easy to tell whether you want a career in the RAF or a career in CS.
Reply 2
@szcheff

I hesitated to reply to this as your post and subject title was a bit ambiguous and it leads the reader to make assumptions which may or may not be correct. I take it to mean that you have either graduated from Cambridge University or are planning to go there, and that you are in a dilemma as to whether to try for the RAF as a pilot or go down a Civil Service career route. By virtue of the fact that you’re talking of 6 figure salaries, I’m assuming you have your sights on the upper echelons of the CS? Is that about right?

Breaking each part down:

a. University. Never been to Uni, but have two offspring who both graduated with 1st class Hons from their respective establishments, the whole point of higher education is to teach you to think for yourself and train your mind to think at an advanced level and create original ideas. Regardless of the discipline, achieving a degree demonstrates you have succeeded at that level, and all employers will take note of that. Of course the other major factor is that you learn about yourself and others and how to survive away from the home environment. Does the Cambridge / Oxford name have the same cachet for employers as it used to? I can’t really answer that, as I’ve never been and don’t know what the elite recruiters actually think. However, from a personal viewpoint, just by reading the papers and listening to others, I think the lustre around those two establishments has been well and truly tarnished in recent years and I would have as much respect for an articulate graduate from the OU as I would for the equivalent from Cambridge.

b. RAF Pilot. I can answer this from personal experience as I was selected at OASC in the 70s, although failed officer training due to immature muppetry, but subsequently completed a full service career as non-commissioned aircrew, retiring (from that career) with a very decent salary and what is now disparagingly referred to as a gold plated pension. At the top of the non commissioned tree in the RAF, I was often the highest paid member of a 13 person crew, unless there was a senior Sqn Ldr or above on board. However, regardless of the salary (and I often pinched myself that they were actually paying me to have such fun with amazing people), the RAF is / was a great career to develop even further beyond Uni, specifically around the attributes of confidence, leadership and resilience. You gain that in spades, and it certainly helped me in my second career. Many of my former colleagues (Pilots, WSOs and WSOps) have gone on to pilot jobs in airlines and charter companies, and it’s all about being in the right place at the right time! Of course, the educational and vocational opportunities they gained in the RAF, helped enormously.

c. Civil Service. Obviously the CS is a huge employer with many varied roles and organisations and many different career pathways. Before I eventually settled on a role with a different agency, I applied for a number of CS roles, and had an assessment centre in London. The old adage is that the point of an interview is to discover whether you’re a good fit for an organisation, but more important on a personal basis, whether they are a good fit for you. I rejected an offer for a CS post based on that assessment, as I just didn’t like the tick box recruitment process, or the atmosphere and mindset of the staff I met which reflected that mentality. And my viewpoint was (IMHO) justified in my chosen role and organisation, as I had to work closely with many different partners to share information and insights in order to achieve our (and their) overall aims. I worked with many outstanding individuals from external agencies who had a similar vision and can do attitude. But, without exception, I could guarantee that any contact I had
with a CS organisation would be characterised as obstructive, unhelpful, and process driven with no obvious communication skills in the written or spoken word. It got to the stage where I basically did my job in spite of, not because of them. I assume that there are some very talented people working as CS, but the culture and ethos is so rigid and politically correct, that nothing gets done. Which you can read about in all media outlets across the UK.

There, that’s my personal take on Cambridge, the RAF and the Civil Service. Others may have a different opinion on one or all three. But happy to discuss off table if you want.

Good luck with your future.
(edited 1 month ago)
Reply 3
Original post by Ikaruss
@szcheff
I hesitated to reply to this as your post and subject title was a bit ambiguous and it leads the reader to make assumptions which may or may not be correct. I take it to mean that you have either graduated from Cambridge University or are planning to go there, and that you are in a dilemma as to whether to try for the RAF as a pilot or go down a Civil Service career route. By virtue of the fact that you’re talking of 6 figure salaries, I’m assuming you have your sights on the upper echelons of the CS? Is that about right?
Breaking each part down:
a. University. Never been to Uni, but have two offspring who both graduated with 1st class Hons from their respective establishments, the whole point of higher education is to teach you to think for yourself and train your mind to think at an advanced level and create original ideas. Regardless of the discipline, achieving a degree demonstrates you have succeeded at that level, and all employers will take note of that. Of course the other major factor is that you learn about yourself and others and how to survive away from the home environment. Does the Cambridge / Oxford name have the same cachet for employers as it used to? I can’t really answer that, as I’ve never been and don’t know what the elite recruiters actually think. However, from a personal viewpoint, just by reading the papers and listening to others, I think the lustre around those two establishments has been well and truly tarnished in recent years and I would have as much respect for an articulate graduate from the OU as I would for the equivalent from Cambridge.
b. RAF Pilot. I can answer this from personal experience as I was selected at OASC in the 70s, although failed officer training due to immature muppetry, but subsequently completed a full service career as non-commissioned aircrew, retiring (from that career) with a very decent salary and what is now disparagingly referred to as a gold plated pension. At the top of the non commissioned tree in the RAF, I was often the highest paid member of a 13 person crew, unless there was a senior Sqn Ldr or above on board. However, regardless of the salary (and I often pinched myself that they were actually paying me to have such fun with amazing people), the RAF is / was a great career to develop even further beyond Uni, specifically around the attributes of confidence, leadership and resilience. You gain that in spades, and it certainly helped me in my second career. Many of my former colleagues (Pilots, WSOs and WSOps) have gone on to pilot jobs in airlines and charter companies, and it’s all about being in the right place at the right time! Of course, the educational and vocational opportunities they gained in the RAF, helped enormously.
c. Civil Service. Obviously the CS is a huge employer with many varied roles and organisations and many different career pathways. Before I eventually settled on a role with a different agency, I applied for a number of CS roles, and had an assessment centre in London. The old adage is that the point of an interview is to discover whether you’re a good fit for an organisation, but more important on a personal basis, whether they are a good fit for you. I rejected an offer for a CS post based on that assessment, as I just didn’t like the tick box recruitment process, or the atmosphere and mindset of the staff I met which reflected that mentality. And my viewpoint was (IMHO) justified in my chosen role and organisation, as I had to work closely with many different partners to share information and insights in order to achieve our (and their) overall aims. I worked with many outstanding individuals from external agencies who had a similar vision and can do attitude. But, without exception, I could guarantee that any contact I had
with a CS organisation would be characterised as obstructive, unhelpful, and process driven with no obvious communication skills in the written or spoken word. It got to the stage where I basically did my job in spite of, not because of them. I assume that there are some very talented people working as CS, but the culture and ethos is so rigid and politically correct, that nothing gets done. Which you can read about in all media outlets across the UK.
There, that’s my personal take on Cambridge, the RAF and the Civil Service. Others may have a different opinion on one or all three. But happy to discuss off table if you want.
Good luck with your future.

I read it as 'Computer Science', not 'Civil Service', because they talk about being a 'CS graduate'.
Reply 4
Original post by Surnia
I read it as 'Computer Science', not 'Civil Service', because they talk about being a 'CS graduate'.

Aaah, you’re probably right @Surnia ! That would make more sense! Blows a lot of my points out the water! Although I stand by my assertion that the Civil Service are, generally speaking, not fit for purpose!

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