UK Universities on the brink of Bankruptcy?

Just came across the following articles discussing the financial woes of the university sector:

https://sciencebusiness.net/news/universities/uk-universities-crisis-centre-left-takes-power

and

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpd9mgk028lo

Is it a more a case of the need for universities having to adjust to the changing market, as overseas students look to study at universities at or nearer their home country, and UK students want a degree that will actually give them a career.

Have other factors also played their part such as a realisation that vocational degrees with industrial links offer better prospects (nursing, engineering, construction, and teaching) than academic subjects (Psychology, Politics, Geography, and Sociology)? Has the driver been the weakened economy, as jobs either reduce, disappear, become partially or fully automated, or are moved to cheaper countries. Has the over expansion of the number universities and degree courses based on government whims, rather than economic acted as the catalyst for the problems. Are degree certificates worth the paper that they are written?

Are the smartest students now the ones who go on to do degree apprenticeships at PWC, Rolls Royce, etc as they get experience and a degree - and they also get a career too, or who go into a trade?

Reply 1

Stiffy Byng

There is probably an over-supply of universities. In addition, UK tuition fees are capped by the Government. Costs have risen faster than revenues for many universities.

It appears that graduate employment outcomes even out by about a decade after graduation.

It would be a sad thing to reduce higher education to a monetised commodity. Learning can be its own reward.

Reply 2

apprentinsideryt

Original post by Kinga88

Just came across the following articles discussing the financial woes of the university sector:
https://sciencebusiness.net/news/universities/uk-universities-crisis-centre-left-takes-power
and
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpd9mgk028lo
Is it a more a case of the need for universities having to adjust to the changing market, as overseas students look to study at universities at or nearer their home country, and UK students want a degree that will actually give them a career.
Have other factors also played their part such as a realisation that vocational degrees with industrial links offer better prospects (nursing, engineering, construction, and teaching) than academic subjects (Psychology, Politics, Geography, and Sociology)? Has the driver been the weakened economy, as jobs either reduce, disappear, become partially or fully automated, or are moved to cheaper countries. Has the over expansion of the number universities and degree courses based on government whims, rather than economic acted as the catalyst for the problems. Are degree certificates worth the paper that they are written?
Are the smartest students now the ones who go on to do degree apprenticeships at PWC, Rolls Royce, etc as they get experience and a degree - and they also get a career too, or who go into a trade?

Yes, I agree with you. Traditional university degrees are seriously losing their value, especially when there are degree apprenticeships with top companies, £25k+ salaries for 18yr olds and free degrees on the table.

Was interesting seeing your post because I made a video on this just a few weeks ago - https://youtu.be/C9zFeuFOj5U. So great discussion point from you.

Take care of yourself.

Reply 3

McGinger

There is over capacity in a shrinking market - and there are problems with the current fee system for those that remain. This needs to be sorted out at government level - along with reinstatement of graduate visas to make the UK attractive to overseas students.

There have been rumours of numerous places going under for about 5 years, the likes of Solent, Newman and numerous other 'pretend' Unis that are little better than FE Colleges - frankly they deserve to go. Once they have, resources/funding can be reallocated to bolster the remaining Unis. This isnt the only solution - see above - but there are far too many 'Unis' pretending to offer worthwhile degrees.

Reply 4

Kinga88

Original post by apprentinsideryt

Yes, I agree with you. Traditional university degrees are seriously losing their value, especially when there are degree apprenticeships with top companies, £25k+ salaries for 18yr olds and free degrees on the table.
Was interesting seeing your post because I made a video on this just a few weeks ago - https://youtu.be/C9zFeuFOj5U. So great discussion point from you.
Take care of yourself.

Thank you. Great video!

Reply 5

Kinga88

Original post by McGinger

There is over capacity in a shrinking market - and there are problems with the current fee system for those that remain. This needs to be sorted out at government level - along with reinstatement of graduate visas to make the UK attractive to overseas students.
There have been rumours of numerous places going under for about 5 years, the likes of Solent, Newman and numerous other 'pretend' Unis that are little better than FE Colleges - frankly they deserve to go. Once they have, resources/funding can be reallocated to bolster the remaining Unis. This isnt the only solution - see above - but there are far too many 'Unis' pretending to offer worthwhile degrees.

Definitely agree. Potential university students need to use LinkedIn to find out what universities and subjects want, rather than assume any degree from any university will be sufficient. Some university degrees are totally useless with below 50% of those graduating getting anything like a graduate job. companies. it is also interesting to note the background ie experience of some lecturers, as came across one who had worked in industry for 6 months, some don't even have that, but they are experts on that area.

Reply 6

imxa6

Study Forum Helper

In addition, universities in the UK rely strongly on international students fees - of which, now immigration is dropping considerably - mean that unis are scrambling to find other sources to fund their needs.

Reply 7

Stiffy Byng

I have not seen any proposals to reduce the number of student visas, so the international market remains open to universities. Economic problems in China have reduced and continue to reduce the numbers of students arriving from there.

Reply 8

hotpud

Original post by Kinga88

Just came across the following articles discussing the financial woes of the university sector:
https://sciencebusiness.net/news/universities/uk-universities-crisis-centre-left-takes-power
and
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpd9mgk028lo
Is it a more a case of the need for universities having to adjust to the changing market, as overseas students look to study at universities at or nearer their home country, and UK students want a degree that will actually give them a career.
Have other factors also played their part such as a realisation that vocational degrees with industrial links offer better prospects (nursing, engineering, construction, and teaching) than academic subjects (Psychology, Politics, Geography, and Sociology)? Has the driver been the weakened economy, as jobs either reduce, disappear, become partially or fully automated, or are moved to cheaper countries. Has the over expansion of the number universities and degree courses based on government whims, rather than economic acted as the catalyst for the problems. Are degree certificates worth the paper that they are written?
Are the smartest students now the ones who go on to do degree apprenticeships at PWC, Rolls Royce, etc as they get experience and a degree - and they also get a career too, or who go into a trade?

No university is going bankrupt any time soon. They are just trying to panic the government into doing something, specifically raising undergrad fees. They have tonnes of things they can do before they become bankrupt. They could lay off staff, downsize courses, increase research, yada yada yada. They are doing none of that. Instead they are putting out press releases that make things seem worse than they actually are so that the VCs can maintain their luxury car and £500k+ salary.

(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 9

michelelondon

Original post by hotpud

interesting theory!

Reply 10

Kinga88

Original post by hotpud

Good point. Universities have engineered going to university, as an essential route for any aspiring person, when actually the graduate market is now over saturated with degree holders at both undergraduate and masters level.

Problem is they are creating degree courses to sustain their 'business' model, which students joining will lead to something - career, etc, but which won't, and in many cases they will reduce a student's employability....and give them a high student debt - student loans, etc, but the good news it all helps keep lecturers in jobs and wages in the sector, especially at VC level high, as they argue that they have to be paid the same as those in commercial world, but without the risk.

Schools have an interest in helping sustain this model too, as parents assess schools as being "successful" or not by the number who go on to university, and Russell Group ones especially.

Many students don't seem to realise this, or think that they won't be impacted, but then again their teachers have an interest in encouraging this, as they can go on and say that xx% go to university or y% of students go to a Russell Group university . Very often there is little or no thought as to what careers the degree will open up.

I have come across students at fee paying schools where most students go on to do Theology, Sociology, Geography, Philosophy, Digital Media, and Archaeology & Anthropology at Russell group universities with little or no thought about career, which is great for universities as they can pay higher fees and 'engineer' prestige', after all Russell Group is about quality of research not quality of undergraduate teaching. League tables (QS, Good University Guide, etc) - they are to sell advertising and drive up readership.

Smart students look at LinkedIn to see what companies in an industry actually want, and the types of person they attract - far more useful. In many cases Professional Qualifications and good A-level subjects with good grades are now preferred to graduates, as they "don't know it all". Experience trumps degrees, especially if the person does targeted short courses beyond just professional body run short courses. ....but how long will it take for that message to get through?