English universities face autumn ‘tipping point’ as financial crisis looms
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/09/english-universities-face-autumn-tipping-point-as-financial-crisis-looms
Universities in England face a “tipping point” this autumn engulfing some of them in financial crisis, according to vice-chancellors, who say urgent government intervention may be needed to stop institutions from going under.The warnings come as hundreds of thousands of sixth formers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland await their A-level results next Thursday. Their decisions on where and when to attend higher education will be a make-or-break point for several universities.David Maguire, vice-chancellor of the University of East Anglia, said that “an awful lot of institutions are placing extremely large bets on this recruitment round” and warned: “Quite frankly I don’t think there are enough students to go around.”Sector leaders who spoke to the Guardian said that, until improved long-term funding was secured, the most likely short-term solutions included mergers between institutions, and reorganisations such as pruning departments.
Universities in England face a “tipping point” this autumn engulfing some of them in financial crisis, according to vice-chancellors, who say urgent government intervention may be needed to stop institutions from going under.The warnings come as hundreds of thousands of sixth formers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland await their A-level results next Thursday. Their decisions on where and when to attend higher education will be a make-or-break point for several universities.David Maguire, vice-chancellor of the University of East Anglia, said that “an awful lot of institutions are placing extremely large bets on this recruitment round” and warned: “Quite frankly I don’t think there are enough students to go around.”Sector leaders who spoke to the Guardian said that, until improved long-term funding was secured, the most likely short-term solutions included mergers between institutions, and reorganisations such as pruning departments.
Imagine working hard to get the grades you need to be told in September the university is closing!
The University sector is a fantastic industry in the country. It produces exceptional graduates, it's one of our best exports and has led to the regeneration of many towns / cities.
The recent drive to lower net migration (which includes international students) will only shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken an industry which has helped the economy. International students are a vital part of university funding and are essentially a cash cow: they come to the UK, spend a load of money and then leave. They are predominantly young people so their burden on national services (e.g. public education, the NHS) are very minimal.
The recent drive to lower net migration (which includes international students) will only shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken an industry which has helped the economy. International students are a vital part of university funding and are essentially a cash cow: they come to the UK, spend a load of money and then leave. They are predominantly young people so their burden on national services (e.g. public education, the NHS) are very minimal.
Original post by SHallowvale
The University sector is a fantastic industry in the country. It produces exceptional graduates, it's one of our best exports and has led to the regeneration of many towns / cities.
The recent drive to lower net migration (which includes international students) will only shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken an industry which has helped the economy. International students are a vital part of university funding and are essentially a cash cow: they come to the UK, spend a load of money and then leave. They are predominantly young people so their burden on national services (e.g. public education, the NHS) are very minimal.
The recent drive to lower net migration (which includes international students) will only shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken an industry which has helped the economy. International students are a vital part of university funding and are essentially a cash cow: they come to the UK, spend a load of money and then leave. They are predominantly young people so their burden on national services (e.g. public education, the NHS) are very minimal.
It's good for Britain's soft power too. When I was at uni I loved learning about different people cultures etc
Original post by SHallowvale
The University sector is a fantastic industry in the country. It produces exceptional graduates, it's one of our best exports and has led to the regeneration of many towns / cities.
The recent drive to lower net migration (which includes international students) will only shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken an industry which has helped the economy. International students are a vital part of university funding and are essentially a cash cow: they come to the UK, spend a load of money and then leave. They are predominantly young people so their burden on national services (e.g. public education, the NHS) are very minimal.
The recent drive to lower net migration (which includes international students) will only shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken an industry which has helped the economy. International students are a vital part of university funding and are essentially a cash cow: they come to the UK, spend a load of money and then leave. They are predominantly young people so their burden on national services (e.g. public education, the NHS) are very minimal.
Don’t be so dramatic. Foreign student numbers would have to drop by 60+% to get to the same level as they were before. The universities survived before they can survive again. If they have to drop a few utterly pointless subjects all the better.
Original post by Djtoodles
Don’t be so dramatic. Foreign student numbers would have to drop by 60+% to get to the same level as they were before. The universities survived before they can survive again. If they have to drop a few utterly pointless subjects all the better.
Some universities may survive a drop in international students but the consequences will be weaker economies in university towns / cities, less money flowing into the UK, higher fees for home students and / or poorer quality education.
Why would anyone want that? Gutting "utterly pointless subjects" doesn't justify a weaker sector.
Original post by SHallowvale
Some universities may survive a drop in international students but the consequences will be weaker economies in university towns / cities, less money flowing into the UK, higher fees for home students and / or poorer quality education.
Why would anyone want that? Gutting "utterly pointless subjects" doesn't justify a weaker sector.
Why would anyone want that? Gutting "utterly pointless subjects" doesn't justify a weaker sector.
Almost all universities will survive a drop in international students. They didn’t all just spring up in the last 20 years. Additionally, fees have gone up despite all the international students and haven’t gone down with the increase in international students.
Arguably costs are even higher for local students when there are a lot of international ones because the cost of accommodation is so much higher while the cost of tuition remains the same. With an increase in accommodation costs of 61% over the last 10 years which funnily enough is an almost perfect match to the increase in number of international students.
I would argue all those pointless subjects have created a weaker sector anyway with university graduates now facing more issues then ever before in finding work, especially when breaking it down and looking at the weak subject choices compared to the strong ones.
In other words, everything you think will happen as a result of lower numbers of international students, either wont, already did even with high levels of international students or high levels of international students made things worse.
I have no problem with international students, most of my master’s degree classes were 90% Chinese with each one paying 25k per year. They come here, pay through the nose and sod off but don’t pretend it’s all rainbows and sunshine for the locals students either, when it objectively isn’t.
Original post by Djtoodles
Almost all universities will survive a drop in international students. They didn’t all just spring up in the last 20 years. Additionally, fees have gone up despite all the international students and haven’t gone down with the increase in international students.
Arguably costs are even higher for local students when there are a lot of international ones because the cost of accommodation is so much higher while the cost of tuition remains the same. With an increase in accommodation costs of 61% over the last 10 years which funnily enough is an almost perfect match to the increase in number of international students.
I would argue all those pointless subjects have created a weaker sector anyway with university graduates now facing more issues then ever before in finding work, especially when breaking it down and looking at the weak subject choices compared to the strong ones.
In other words, everything you think will happen as a result of lower numbers of international students, either wont, already did even with high levels of international students or high levels of international students made things worse.
I have no problem with international students, most of my master’s degree classes were 90% Chinese with each one paying 25k per year. They come here, pay through the nose and sod off but don’t pretend it’s all rainbows and sunshine for the locals students either, when it objectively isn’t.
Arguably costs are even higher for local students when there are a lot of international ones because the cost of accommodation is so much higher while the cost of tuition remains the same. With an increase in accommodation costs of 61% over the last 10 years which funnily enough is an almost perfect match to the increase in number of international students.
I would argue all those pointless subjects have created a weaker sector anyway with university graduates now facing more issues then ever before in finding work, especially when breaking it down and looking at the weak subject choices compared to the strong ones.
In other words, everything you think will happen as a result of lower numbers of international students, either wont, already did even with high levels of international students or high levels of international students made things worse.
I have no problem with international students, most of my master’s degree classes were 90% Chinese with each one paying 25k per year. They come here, pay through the nose and sod off but don’t pretend it’s all rainbows and sunshine for the locals students either, when it objectively isn’t.
It isn't about survival, it's about the looming decline of the sector and the consequences it will have on university towns / cities (and students themselves).
The cap on tuition fees has been about £9,000 for over a decade and hasn't been adjusted for inflation, it would be £4,000 higher if it were. Universities have made up for this using income from international students, who for some universities generate well over 60% of their tuition fee income. You can't gut the number of international students coming to universities without causing serious strains on resources, strains of which will affect home students both through the number of placements and the quality of education.
The 61% figure you cite is misleading since this applies to purpose-built student accomodation, not accomodation in general (e.g. private renting). Anecdotally, the people who use PBSAs are disproportionately international students anyway (not home students). Is there any evidence that a high number of international students makes costs higher for local students? Keep in mind that the increased cost of PBSAs has generally matched that of wider UK inflation rate over the same period, plus you'd have to offset any increase in costs for students with the undeniable benefit provided to the local economy.
Most students do not take "pointless subjects", nor have you shown that removing these subjects (whatever they are, you haven't said) would magically fix the problem or offset the simultaneous decline caused by a reduction in funding.
Original post by SHallowvale
The University sector is a fantastic industry in the country. It produces exceptional graduates, it's one of our best exports and has led to the regeneration of many towns / cities.
The recent drive to lower net migration (which includes international students) will only shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken an industry which has helped the economy. International students are a vital part of university funding and are essentially a cash cow: they come to the UK, spend a load of money and then leave. They are predominantly young people so their burden on national services (e.g. public education, the NHS) are very minimal.
The recent drive to lower net migration (which includes international students) will only shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken an industry which has helped the economy. International students are a vital part of university funding and are essentially a cash cow: they come to the UK, spend a load of money and then leave. They are predominantly young people so their burden on national services (e.g. public education, the NHS) are very minimal.
They don't leave though.. Every single international student Nurse I've worked with has had intentions of staying to gain employment, and through that sponsorship to remain on temporary residence. I agree that we need International students, but Universities prioritising them because they're "cash cows" is not acceptable. We should be incentivising more British nationals to attend higher education. I.e increasing places on highly competitive entries like Law/Medicine. Reducing the insane fee's which keep rising year after year.
The NHS needs staff. It is a good thing that people come to the UK to study and train and then work in important sectors such as healthcare. Most international students leave the UK after their courses.
Fees for UK students have not risen for years.
Increasing the number of places available to study subjects which are connected to particular types of employment is not sensible if there are insufficient jobs available in the relevant sectors. There is a need for more medical staff. There is an over supply of law students.
Fees for UK students have not risen for years.
Increasing the number of places available to study subjects which are connected to particular types of employment is not sensible if there are insufficient jobs available in the relevant sectors. There is a need for more medical staff. There is an over supply of law students.
Original post by Stiffy Byng
The NHS needs staff. It is a good thing that people come to the UK to study and train and then work in important sectors such as healthcare. Most international students leave the UK after their courses.
Fees for UK students have not risen for years.
Increasing the number of places available to study subjects which are connected to particular types of employment is not sensible if there are insufficient jobs available in the relevant sectors. There is a need for more medical staff. There is an over supply of law students.
Fees for UK students have not risen for years.
Increasing the number of places available to study subjects which are connected to particular types of employment is not sensible if there are insufficient jobs available in the relevant sectors. There is a need for more medical staff. There is an over supply of law students.
You don't pay attention to fee's I take it. yes they haven't risen dramatically like they did from 3 grand to 9.. but now, most courses are above 10 if not closer to 11 per year, they rise slightly every year. I can't comment about law, but med school definitely needs to increase its places and increase it's specialist training opportunities. And if most international students leave after finishing study.. I'd like to know where you are. Up north nobody has any intention of leaving..
Original post by ItzNotLupus
You don't pay attention to fee's I take it. yes they haven't risen dramatically like they did from 3 grand to 9.. but now, most courses are above 10 if not closer to 11 per year, they rise slightly every year. I can't comment about law, but med school definitely needs to increase its places and increase it's specialist training opportunities. And if most international students leave after finishing study.. I'd like to know where you are. Up north nobody has any intention of leaving..
UK undergraduate tuition fees are currently fixed at £9250 a year. Such fees have been at that level since 2017.
You seem to have been given a free bag of apostrophes, but no instruction manual for them.
If you are intent on an anti-migrant rant, there are other threads for that.
Original post by ItzNotLupus
They don't leave though.. Every single international student Nurse I've worked with has had intentions of staying to gain employment, and through that sponsorship to remain on temporary residence. I agree that we need International students, but Universities prioritising them because they're "cash cows" is not acceptable. We should be incentivising more British nationals to attend higher education. I.e increasing places on highly competitive entries like Law/Medicine. Reducing the insane fee's which keep rising year after year.
So the ones that don't leave are the ones we need the most (e.g. nurses and doctors)? I'm not sure how that could be seen as a bad thing: they come to the UK, pay a ridiculous amount of money to study here and then work in an industry where we have a shortage of workers.
It's fine to encourage more British nationals to attend higher education but where's the money going to come for it? Replacing international students with British students will put strains on resources since universities get far less income from British students. Reducing the fees would worsen the problem. You could say the government should pay for it instead, which I agree with at least in theory, but that would require increases in tax or cuts to be made in other areas (which is a can of worms in and of itself).
In the meantime, we have a huge cohort of students who are net contributors to both the university sector and the wider economy. There is no reason to reduce the size of this cohort.
Original post by Stiffy Byng
UK undergraduate tuition fees are currently fixed at £9250 a year. Such fees have been at that level since 2017.
You seem to have been given a free bag of apostrophes, but no instruction manual for them.
If you are intent on an anti-migrant rant, there are other threads for that.
You seem to have been given a free bag of apostrophes, but no instruction manual for them.
If you are intent on an anti-migrant rant, there are other threads for that.
Anti-migrant rant... 😆 holy stretch. And what about Postgrad fees?
Original post by ItzNotLupus
Anti-migrant rant... 😆 holy stretch. And what about Postgrad fees?
Postgraduate fees are not capped. You referred to undergraduate fees and incorrectly alleged that these have been increasing. They have been frozen since 2017. I am glad to see that you are reducing your apostrophe habit.
(edited 1 month ago)
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