I'm so tired of people saying GCSEs and A-levels don't matter.
You need them to take the next step, it's like a butterfly effect, in a few years time, you may not need them, but they are the choices you make that decide whether your future is utter crap or not, each choice matters, so for the love of god make multiple plans for the coruses you take and do very good research on the job you want to take.
Good GCSEs lead to wider choice and variety for A-Levels. For specific Uni courses you do need specific A-levels which you can not acsess if you dont have enough high GCSE grades. For specific Uni courses you do need GCSEs in the 6's and above to be considered. Everything you do plays a part in your future.
All of this isn't considered once you're in your 3rd or 4th job because they are stepping stones to getting a job in the first place. After your 3rd or 4th job maybe, experience matters more. If you're considering doing A-Levels use the summer to really push yourself because to redo them is incredibly expensive and generally not worth it, neither is the stress of clearing.
Russel universities serve as a direct pipeline to higher ranking establishments because that's where they like to hire from first before considering other Fresh graduate applicants, especially finance.
Essentially good grades -> good uni course/uni-> higher chance at a better job if you're in a place where you can secure high quality connections that you probably won't find at lower ranked unis, better starting point for your route into the future.
Bad grades -> low ranked uni courses only available -> end up in a bad position, 27k wasted which you're forced to pay, and take a different route.
There are other routes, like starting your own business young or just straight up working, but if you're going to uni you'd better have a very good plan, or it will not work out...
Good GCSEs lead to wider choice and variety for A-Levels. For specific Uni courses you do need specific A-levels which you can not acsess if you dont have enough high GCSE grades. For specific Uni courses you do need GCSEs in the 6's and above to be considered. Everything you do plays a part in your future.
All of this isn't considered once you're in your 3rd or 4th job because they are stepping stones to getting a job in the first place. After your 3rd or 4th job maybe, experience matters more. If you're considering doing A-Levels use the summer to really push yourself because to redo them is incredibly expensive and generally not worth it, neither is the stress of clearing.
Russel universities serve as a direct pipeline to higher ranking establishments because that's where they like to hire from first before considering other Fresh graduate applicants, especially finance.
Essentially good grades -> good uni course/uni-> higher chance at a better job if you're in a place where you can secure high quality connections that you probably won't find at lower ranked unis, better starting point for your route into the future.
Bad grades -> low ranked uni courses only available -> end up in a bad position, 27k wasted which you're forced to pay, and take a different route.
There are other routes, like starting your own business young or just straight up working, but if you're going to uni you'd better have a very good plan, or it will not work out...
You'll probably find that the people who say GCSEs and A Levels don't matter are people who are either doing badly themselves, or are trying to encourage others that have done badly that their life isn't over.
Yes, your grades are important, and while it's true that not every route to success hinges on good grades, it is important for most people who want to pursue higher education and a job that needs a degree etc... Don't worry too much about what other people say and focus on what is important to you.
Yes, your grades are important, and while it's true that not every route to success hinges on good grades, it is important for most people who want to pursue higher education and a job that needs a degree etc... Don't worry too much about what other people say and focus on what is important to you.
Of course GCSEs and A-levels matter. The thing is, almost no one denies that. However, there are many people who say that they aren't the be all and end all and that they aren't worth stressing over excessively (and there's nothing wrong with that imo).
I think people, especially TSR users, put far too much weight on GCSEs. Certainly when I was in school it was not typical for students to "shop around" for the best state school in their area. You just went to wherever was in your area that offered the subjects you wanted, unless you wanted to do something unusual like the IB (which was in fact my situation).
Equally most did not have especially stringent GCSE requirements to continue to the A-level (reasonable expectation that you passed everything) and where they did exist these were practical - no point permitting students who failed GCSE Maths (or even only got a minimal pass) to do A-level Maths as they would invariably fail that to.
To put things in context, the majority of courses at the majority of universities including the majority of Russell Group universities (a completely pointless target as firstly its a political lobbying group and has no relation to teaching quality and secondly the actual quality of teaching and graduate outcomes for RG unis is very wide because there's a significant difference between the "top" end and "bottom" end of the RG - and for the vast majority of jobs where you studied is ultimately a nonfactor) do not shortlist based on GCSEs and only have minimal minimum requirements to pass GCSE English language and Maths as these are government metrics for literacy and numeracy. Beyond that on the whole they simply don't care. Even among the exception courses where some shortlist on GCSEs not all.do (e.g. medicine where some medical schools don't score GCSEs at all). Likewise the exception universities (e.g. Oxford and LSE) don't apply the same approach to all.courses and some may have much less stringent expectations for GCSEs or put less weight on those factors (e.g. many non economics, non IR programmes at LSE; many physical sciences and mathematical courses at Oxford).
And for essentially every job advert I've ever seen and every job I've worked in certainly, they only care if at all that you passed GCSE English and maths. The singular exception I've seen is for tutoring jobs which bank on a sense of prestige in the achievements of their tutors to attract new clients (and obviously being able to do well in a qualification does not necessarily equip one with the didactic skills to effectively tutor it).
Doing well in A-level and doing the correct subjects obviously does influence university applications but it's certainly possible to do well on your own merit in A-level anyway. And once you are in uni the importance diminishes.
So I would still hold the majority of TSR users acting like GCSEs are life and death is not constructive and frankly somewhat juvenile. I do agree A-levels do merit some more serious engagment although I don't agree that this necessarily follows from approaching GCSEs with such frothy mouthed fervour.
So do make a good effort attempt but don't drive yourself insane preparing for GCSEs. Then for A-level put in a consistent dedicated level of effort - approach it like a job, put your hours in and work diligently in those then "clock out".
I do think it's disingenuous to frame all suggesting to not take it quite so seriously as current or former academic failures though.
Equally most did not have especially stringent GCSE requirements to continue to the A-level (reasonable expectation that you passed everything) and where they did exist these were practical - no point permitting students who failed GCSE Maths (or even only got a minimal pass) to do A-level Maths as they would invariably fail that to.
To put things in context, the majority of courses at the majority of universities including the majority of Russell Group universities (a completely pointless target as firstly its a political lobbying group and has no relation to teaching quality and secondly the actual quality of teaching and graduate outcomes for RG unis is very wide because there's a significant difference between the "top" end and "bottom" end of the RG - and for the vast majority of jobs where you studied is ultimately a nonfactor) do not shortlist based on GCSEs and only have minimal minimum requirements to pass GCSE English language and Maths as these are government metrics for literacy and numeracy. Beyond that on the whole they simply don't care. Even among the exception courses where some shortlist on GCSEs not all.do (e.g. medicine where some medical schools don't score GCSEs at all). Likewise the exception universities (e.g. Oxford and LSE) don't apply the same approach to all.courses and some may have much less stringent expectations for GCSEs or put less weight on those factors (e.g. many non economics, non IR programmes at LSE; many physical sciences and mathematical courses at Oxford).
And for essentially every job advert I've ever seen and every job I've worked in certainly, they only care if at all that you passed GCSE English and maths. The singular exception I've seen is for tutoring jobs which bank on a sense of prestige in the achievements of their tutors to attract new clients (and obviously being able to do well in a qualification does not necessarily equip one with the didactic skills to effectively tutor it).
Doing well in A-level and doing the correct subjects obviously does influence university applications but it's certainly possible to do well on your own merit in A-level anyway. And once you are in uni the importance diminishes.
So I would still hold the majority of TSR users acting like GCSEs are life and death is not constructive and frankly somewhat juvenile. I do agree A-levels do merit some more serious engagment although I don't agree that this necessarily follows from approaching GCSEs with such frothy mouthed fervour.
So do make a good effort attempt but don't drive yourself insane preparing for GCSEs. Then for A-level put in a consistent dedicated level of effort - approach it like a job, put your hours in and work diligently in those then "clock out".
I do think it's disingenuous to frame all suggesting to not take it quite so seriously as current or former academic failures though.
Spoiler
I literally got rejected from grad jobs because of my GCSEs not meeting the minimum standards lol, yes they matter about getting you to the next level but they all matter after too.
People saying it doesn’t matter are nuts.
People saying it doesn’t matter are nuts.
Original post by artful_lounger
I think people, especially TSR users, put far too much weight on GCSEs. Certainly when I was in school it was not typical for students to "shop around" for the best state school in their area. You just went to wherever was in your area that offered the subjects you wanted, unless you wanted to do something unusual like the IB (which was in fact my situation).
Equally most did not have especially stringent GCSE requirements to continue to the A-level (reasonable expectation that you passed everything) and where they did exist these were practical - no point permitting students who failed GCSE Maths (or even only got a minimal pass) to do A-level Maths as they would invariably fail that to.
To put things in context, the majority of courses at the majority of universities including the majority of Russell Group universities (a completely pointless target as firstly its a political lobbying group and has no relation to teaching quality and secondly the actual quality of teaching and graduate outcomes for RG unis is very wide because there's a significant difference between the "top" end and "bottom" end of the RG - and for the vast majority of jobs where you studied is ultimately a nonfactor) do not shortlist based on GCSEs and only have minimal minimum requirements to pass GCSE English language and Maths as these are government metrics for literacy and numeracy. Beyond that on the whole they simply don't care. Even among the exception courses where some shortlist on GCSEs not all.do (e.g. medicine where some medical schools don't score GCSEs at all). Likewise the exception universities (e.g. Oxford and LSE) don't apply the same approach to all.courses and some may have much less stringent expectations for GCSEs or put less weight on those factors (e.g. many non economics, non IR programmes at LSE; many physical sciences and mathematical courses at Oxford).
And for essentially every job advert I've ever seen and every job I've worked in certainly, they only care if at all that you passed GCSE English and maths. The singular exception I've seen is for tutoring jobs which bank on a sense of prestige in the achievements of their tutors to attract new clients (and obviously being able to do well in a qualification does not necessarily equip one with the didactic skills to effectively tutor it).
Doing well in A-level and doing the correct subjects obviously does influence university applications but it's certainly possible to do well on your own merit in A-level anyway. And once you are in uni the importance diminishes.
So I would still hold the majority of TSR users acting like GCSEs are life and death is not constructive and frankly somewhat juvenile. I do agree A-levels do merit some more serious engagment although I don't agree that this necessarily follows from approaching GCSEs with such frothy mouthed fervour.
So do make a good effort attempt but don't drive yourself insane preparing for GCSEs. Then for A-level put in a consistent dedicated level of effort - approach it like a job, put your hours in and work diligently in those then "clock out".
I do think it's disingenuous to frame all suggesting to not take it quite so seriously as current or former academic failures though.
Equally most did not have especially stringent GCSE requirements to continue to the A-level (reasonable expectation that you passed everything) and where they did exist these were practical - no point permitting students who failed GCSE Maths (or even only got a minimal pass) to do A-level Maths as they would invariably fail that to.
To put things in context, the majority of courses at the majority of universities including the majority of Russell Group universities (a completely pointless target as firstly its a political lobbying group and has no relation to teaching quality and secondly the actual quality of teaching and graduate outcomes for RG unis is very wide because there's a significant difference between the "top" end and "bottom" end of the RG - and for the vast majority of jobs where you studied is ultimately a nonfactor) do not shortlist based on GCSEs and only have minimal minimum requirements to pass GCSE English language and Maths as these are government metrics for literacy and numeracy. Beyond that on the whole they simply don't care. Even among the exception courses where some shortlist on GCSEs not all.do (e.g. medicine where some medical schools don't score GCSEs at all). Likewise the exception universities (e.g. Oxford and LSE) don't apply the same approach to all.courses and some may have much less stringent expectations for GCSEs or put less weight on those factors (e.g. many non economics, non IR programmes at LSE; many physical sciences and mathematical courses at Oxford).
And for essentially every job advert I've ever seen and every job I've worked in certainly, they only care if at all that you passed GCSE English and maths. The singular exception I've seen is for tutoring jobs which bank on a sense of prestige in the achievements of their tutors to attract new clients (and obviously being able to do well in a qualification does not necessarily equip one with the didactic skills to effectively tutor it).
Doing well in A-level and doing the correct subjects obviously does influence university applications but it's certainly possible to do well on your own merit in A-level anyway. And once you are in uni the importance diminishes.
So I would still hold the majority of TSR users acting like GCSEs are life and death is not constructive and frankly somewhat juvenile. I do agree A-levels do merit some more serious engagment although I don't agree that this necessarily follows from approaching GCSEs with such frothy mouthed fervour.
So do make a good effort attempt but don't drive yourself insane preparing for GCSEs. Then for A-level put in a consistent dedicated level of effort - approach it like a job, put your hours in and work diligently in those then "clock out".
I do think it's disingenuous to frame all suggesting to not take it quite so seriously as current or former academic failures though.
Spoiler
The Russell Group represents nearly all of the best UK universities, and they are admired around the globe for their World class research. As for GCSEs, only Maths, English Language, and Science matter. I only sat 9 GCSEs back in the day to concentrate on these key subjects, and l got A grades in all of them. The other GCSE subjects l could have failed and nobody would have cared, be it employers or leading universities (l wasn't applying to Oxbridge, and l wasn't interested in highly overrated universities up north like Durham and St Andrews).
Original post by Physician
The Russell Group represents nearly all of the best UK universities, and they are admired around the globe for their World class research. As for GCSEs, only Maths, English Language, and Science matter. I only sat 9 GCSEs back in the day to concentrate on these key subjects, and l got A grades in all of them. The other GCSE subjects l could have failed and nobody would have cared, be it employers or leading universities (l wasn't applying to Oxbridge, and l wasn't interested in highly overrated universities up north like Durham and St Andrews).
TSR ate my reply so in summary:
Most people outside of the UK not in academia won't be able to name any UK universities outside of Oxbridge, maybe LSE or Imperial. Most RGs unknown outside of the UK beyond "oh yes I know Manchester is a city that exists makes sense they have a big university there" and similar. Major exception otherwise is SOAS, which is not an RG uni - very well known in countries that speak its languages particularly I gather in East Asia.
Plenty of very good non RG unis which may even be better than some or even most/all RG unis in their specialisms e.g. Bath, SOAS, the Courtauld.
Disagree science GCSE is more important than any other GCSE option except for people doing science A-levels and degrees stemming from those.
Original post by Little pecker
I literally got rejected from grad jobs because of my GCSEs not meeting the minimum standards lol, yes they matter about getting you to the next level but they all matter after too.
People saying it doesn’t matter are nuts.
People saying it doesn’t matter are nuts.
That's pretty surprising to me as where I've looked most of them don't have muhc on GCSEs, only ask for passes in 5 at most, and/or only specify passed in maths/English. Which roles were these at what companies?
People say they don't need grades probably to try and stop students worrying and obsessing over them so much. You can get what you want (mostly) without good grades. You just need hard work and commitment towards what you want to do.
GCSEs and A-Levels DO matter, within the timeline and scope of their own relevance to you as an individual. If you need them to get onto your preferred degree course, apprenticeship (degree or advanced etc) or into your early career job.. they matter.
Once you have higher qualifications that do that job much better for you, they are a lot less relevant and useful but they still matter in that they are a big achievement at a point in your life.
Their relevance and importance simply changes over the course of your personal and professional life and development.
As someone who flunked a few GCSEs, going back and getting B at my Maths GCSE much later in life (30 ish) to get onto an apprenticeship that brought me a career leading to several HE qualifications..... that Maths GCSE will always be a massive achievement for me alongside the HNC, degree, masters. So be proud of what you achieve and don't sweat the failures, as life's nothing without the failures you learn your best lessons from.
If you aren't failing sometimes, you aren't really learning as well as you could. If you aren't learning you aren't really growing as well as you could. Key is to ensure you are understanding what led to the fails and making changes needed.
Edit: My quals have helped me get professional registration alongside my current experience, and this registration is now probably more relevant to my career than the qualifications themselves are right now. All comes down to relevance to the current situation.
Once you have higher qualifications that do that job much better for you, they are a lot less relevant and useful but they still matter in that they are a big achievement at a point in your life.
Their relevance and importance simply changes over the course of your personal and professional life and development.
As someone who flunked a few GCSEs, going back and getting B at my Maths GCSE much later in life (30 ish) to get onto an apprenticeship that brought me a career leading to several HE qualifications..... that Maths GCSE will always be a massive achievement for me alongside the HNC, degree, masters. So be proud of what you achieve and don't sweat the failures, as life's nothing without the failures you learn your best lessons from.
If you aren't failing sometimes, you aren't really learning as well as you could. If you aren't learning you aren't really growing as well as you could. Key is to ensure you are understanding what led to the fails and making changes needed.
Edit: My quals have helped me get professional registration alongside my current experience, and this registration is now probably more relevant to my career than the qualifications themselves are right now. All comes down to relevance to the current situation.
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by artful_lounger
TSR ate my reply so in summary:
Most people outside of the UK not in academia won't be able to name any UK universities outside of Oxbridge, maybe LSE or Imperial. Most RGs unknown outside of the UK beyond "oh yes I know Manchester is a city that exists makes sense they have a big university there" and similar. Major exception otherwise is SOAS, which is not an RG uni - very well known in countries that speak its languages particularly I gather in East Asia.
Plenty of very good non RG unis which may even be better than some or even most/all RG unis in their specialisms e.g. Bath, SOAS, the Courtauld.
Disagree science GCSE is more important than any other GCSE option except for people doing science A-levels and degrees stemming from those.
That's pretty surprising to me as where I've looked most of them don't have muhc on GCSEs, only ask for passes in 5 at most, and/or only specify passed in maths/English. Which roles were these at what companies?
Most people outside of the UK not in academia won't be able to name any UK universities outside of Oxbridge, maybe LSE or Imperial. Most RGs unknown outside of the UK beyond "oh yes I know Manchester is a city that exists makes sense they have a big university there" and similar. Major exception otherwise is SOAS, which is not an RG uni - very well known in countries that speak its languages particularly I gather in East Asia.
Plenty of very good non RG unis which may even be better than some or even most/all RG unis in their specialisms e.g. Bath, SOAS, the Courtauld.
Disagree science GCSE is more important than any other GCSE option except for people doing science A-levels and degrees stemming from those.
That's pretty surprising to me as where I've looked most of them don't have muhc on GCSEs, only ask for passes in 5 at most, and/or only specify passed in maths/English. Which roles were these at what companies?
At the time (we are talking 8-10 years ago at this point) it was mostly IB, Consulting and Accounting + the general grad schemes for FMCG companies (Account Management, Finance, Etc.)
Most of the grad schemes required at least a B in both Maths and English (I got a C in English). I actually tried to get onto school leaver programmes whilst I was in Sixth Form but same thing happened. It’s only since I’ve actually started my career that my academics other than degree classication aren’t a blocker but obviously it massively impacted the job I ended up in.
I think personally people say this because they end up doing apprenticeship and they don’t really check their grades, but I don’t think that’s true to be honest, but it definitely matter if you want to go to uni
I left secondary school 2 years ago and going into university, most of my secondary friends all failed there GCSE'S and don't care. Only one is putting effort to pass his English. I feel like during secondary school the teachers put so much pressure from year 9 to say oh next your prep for GCSE'S then next year actually doing it. It's a combination of some people just don't care or have an idea for a job that doesn't need that that why so people say they are pointless.
My dad had crap GCSE'S and a level, got kicked out actually. But when army and left 20 years later and now, he has an amazing job and earning good money. So sometimes GCSE'S and a levels matter but also experience is key for certain jobs. Of course some jobs are limited with only relying on experience but it is possible.
Overall, I think gcse are useful for building block. You pass them great go to college or an apprenticeship. Then college is different as it a big step to choices what you want to do with your whole life,but get good grades you go to university. Finish university cool now you can earn more money in some sector.
My dad had crap GCSE'S and a level, got kicked out actually. But when army and left 20 years later and now, he has an amazing job and earning good money. So sometimes GCSE'S and a levels matter but also experience is key for certain jobs. Of course some jobs are limited with only relying on experience but it is possible.
Overall, I think gcse are useful for building block. You pass them great go to college or an apprenticeship. Then college is different as it a big step to choices what you want to do with your whole life,but get good grades you go to university. Finish university cool now you can earn more money in some sector.
Original post by Little pecker
At the time (we are talking 8-10 years ago at this point) it was mostly IB, Consulting and Accounting + the general grad schemes for FMCG companies (Account Management, Finance, Etc.)
Most of the grad schemes required at least a B in both Maths and English (I got a C in English). I actually tried to get onto school leaver programmes whilst I was in Sixth Form but same thing happened. It’s only since I’ve actually started my career that my academics other than degree classication aren’t a blocker but obviously it massively impacted the job I ended up in.
Most of the grad schemes required at least a B in both Maths and English (I got a C in English). I actually tried to get onto school leaver programmes whilst I was in Sixth Form but same thing happened. It’s only since I’ve actually started my career that my academics other than degree classication aren’t a blocker but obviously it massively impacted the job I ended up in.
I think investment banking and management consulting represent a very narrow range of grad schemes and are not typical (other atypical features are their target universities for example).
For the big 4, quickly searching suggests KPMG still requires a B in English and maths, and EY seems to just require a C in each. Struggling a bit to find info on the other two as it doesn't seem the new cycle has started and they don't really indicated it on the pages I've skimmed through so far. I think a minimal pass in English and maths (i.e. a C) is not an unusual requirement though and is noted above as something to be aiming for. Evidently there are some that ask for higher but equally I think if even among the big 4 it's not univeral for them to ask for more than a pass (C) in each, it's unlikely the majority of other similar roles would ask for that.
Also worth bearing in mind even with the broader picture of big 4 accounting and other finance related things outside of IB and management consulting, that's still just one sector and there are a lot of other graduate schemes available in other sectors - I would be surprised if those are more stringent than even the mixed results we're seeing from the big 4.
Which does lead me to again to try and impress upon would be GCSE students that it's really not something worth losing one's sanity over to get 9s in every subject with the black and white thinking that anything else means they're functionally unemployable forever - because that is essentially how the "logical" train of thought for these people goes on this website.
Original post by artful_lounger
TSR ate my reply so in summary:
Most people outside of the UK not in academia won't be able to name any UK universities outside of Oxbridge, maybe LSE or Imperial. Most RGs unknown outside of the UK beyond "oh yes I know Manchester is a city that exists makes sense they have a big university there" and similar. Major exception otherwise is SOAS, which is not an RG uni - very well known in countries that speak its languages particularly I gather in East Asia.
Plenty of very good non RG unis which may even be better than some or even most/all RG unis in their specialisms e.g. Bath, SOAS, the Courtauld.
Disagree science GCSE is more important than any other GCSE option except for people doing science A-levels and degrees stemming from those.
That's pretty surprising to me as where I've looked most of them don't have muhc on GCSEs, only ask for passes in 5 at most, and/or only specify passed in maths/English. Which roles were these at what companies?
Most people outside of the UK not in academia won't be able to name any UK universities outside of Oxbridge, maybe LSE or Imperial. Most RGs unknown outside of the UK beyond "oh yes I know Manchester is a city that exists makes sense they have a big university there" and similar. Major exception otherwise is SOAS, which is not an RG uni - very well known in countries that speak its languages particularly I gather in East Asia.
Plenty of very good non RG unis which may even be better than some or even most/all RG unis in their specialisms e.g. Bath, SOAS, the Courtauld.
Disagree science GCSE is more important than any other GCSE option except for people doing science A-levels and degrees stemming from those.
That's pretty surprising to me as where I've looked most of them don't have muhc on GCSEs, only ask for passes in 5 at most, and/or only specify passed in maths/English. Which roles were these at what companies?
International students from countries like India and China are aware of the top tier UK universities. The Russell Group universities promote themselves globally, and their brand is recognised overseas. Nottingham has global campuses (China and Malaysia). Birmingham has a campus in Dubai. Lots of RG universities have strong links with certain countries.
(edited 1 month ago)
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