Mathematics with physics or natural sciences (physical) at Cambridge?

7

I love physics and I want to strudy at Churchill. But the part I'm most interested in (fluid dynamics, etc) seems to be in theoretical physics in the mathematics department. If I want to study theoretical physics, should I apply to the mathematics tripos or the natural sciences? And after the first year should I continue in math or switch to physics? There are quite a lot of physics courses in part IB of mathematics including fluid dynamics, but condensed matter physics is only listed in physics A in the natural sciences tripos. Another thing to consider is that applying to natural sciences seems easier, less competitive, and if I apply to maths I'll have to do well in STEP and the additional math test at Churchill. Any advice as to which one to choose?
Is anyone here planning to apply to mathematics with physics at Cambridge (or has been accepted there)? Are you going to focus your PS on math or physics? I would really like to focus on physics, but people say it will deter my chances of getting in since people reading the PS would probably be math professors, is that true?

Reply 1

Saracen's Fez

Volunteer Section Leader, Clearing and Applications Advisor

20

Original post

by Woof_()_

I love physics and I want to strudy at Churchill. But the part I'm most interested in (fluid dynamics, etc) seems to be in theoretical physics in the mathematics department. If I want to study theoretical physics, should I apply to the mathematics tripos or the natural sciences? And after the first year should I continue in math or switch to physics? There are quite a lot of physics courses in part IB of mathematics including fluid dynamics, but condensed matter physics is only listed in physics A in the natural sciences tripos. Another thing to consider is that applying to natural sciences seems easier, less competitive, and if I apply to maths I'll have to do well in STEP and the additional math test at Churchill. Any advice as to which one to choose?
Is anyone here planning to apply to mathematics with physics at Cambridge (or has been accepted there)? Are you going to focus your PS on math or physics? I would really like to focus on physics, but people say it will deter my chances of getting in since people reading the PS would probably be math professors, is that true?

Hi there!

So the big thing to note about sciences at Cambridge is that rather than having separate courses for the traditional sciences of biology, chemistry and physics, they instead run a natural sciences course, which is informally divided into biological and physical strands. That means it's more suited to people who want a broader science course that allows them to explore different areas.

If you want a highly theoretical course and at Cambridge, it may be that starting with maths and moving towards maths and physics may be a more suitable option for you.

That said, I'd also have a think about whether a more traditional physics course would be a better fit to your interests, perhaps the physics course at Oxford or other institutions!

Reply 2

candydream

13

I'm also thinking about applying to churchill hahahha but just for maths :smile:

)

Reply 3

emmathehat

7

The STEP element of getting an offer and a place for Maths with Physics is really tough, as you need to be as good at Maths as the people who have applied just for Maths. If you've had the opportunity to try the STEP modules (https://maths.org/step/), how did you find them? This admissions guide for Maths with Physics might be useful (although it's not been updated since 2017): https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/files/maths_with_physics.pdf

How are your other sciences? Would you be happy doing two non-Physics courses in your first year - here's an outline of the courses you can choose: https://www.natsci.tripos.cam.ac.uk/students/first

Best of luck with your application!

Reply 4

A Light Lilt

8

Original post

by Woof_()_

I love physics and I want to strudy at Churchill. But the part I'm most interested in (fluid dynamics, etc) seems to be in theoretical physics in the mathematics department. If I want to study theoretical physics, should I apply to the mathematics tripos or the natural sciences? And after the first year should I continue in math or switch to physics? There are quite a lot of physics courses in part IB of mathematics including fluid dynamics, but condensed matter physics is only listed in physics A in the natural sciences tripos. Another thing to consider is that applying to natural sciences seems easier, less competitive, and if I apply to maths I'll have to do well in STEP and the additional math test at Churchill. Any advice as to which one to choose?
Is anyone here planning to apply to mathematics with physics at Cambridge (or has been accepted there)? Are you going to focus your PS on math or physics? I would really like to focus on physics, but people say it will deter my chances of getting in since people reading the PS would probably be math professors, is that true?

You're definitely better off applying through Maths (with physics) rather than natural sciences. I would heavily advise staying on the Maths course instead of transferring to Physics in year 2 also.

It's true that STEP is hard but I think you have your priorities the wrong way around. If the ultimate goal is to research and study something like Fluid Dynamics, you want to take the best course to that goal (which would be Maths as its a more directly relevant and useful course), rather than prioritizing just getting in to Cambridge, even if that means doing a suboptimal degree. It's not like the other Mathematics degrees (particularly those slanting towards applied like Camb) at other top universities would be any worse for you; in fact I would say they also would be better preparation than NatSci.

STEP is actually really good for you, it will make you a much stronger problem solver and Mathematician to do proper work towards it. Even if you miss the STEP grades; so long as you had done proper preparation, you'd be in a better position on a personal & skills level than if you just hadnt done STEP (either because you were worried about not getting into oxbridge and/or because it seemed scary or too much hard work and/or because you're just lazy or didnt want to take on extra work).

As an analogy: consider this. Someone wants to run a Marathon in 4 years time. They can try and join a marathon training team in 1 year, but this marathon team is harder to get into and doing so would require a lot of training directly relevant to the marathon. Or they can just join a general fitness or gym which may be a bit easier to get into. Now if this person doesn't actually care about running the marathon (to be clear, nothing inherently wrong with that...) they may prefer to go to the gym for the optics or because of the people they meet. but if this person actually really wants to run a marathon and that is the primary goal and motivation, I think the decision is obvious; you set you goals and try to achieve them, knowing that between the ages of 17-21 you frankly have quite a few opportunities to **** up and it wont matter (in the long term, doing maths at cambridge or doing maths and Durham is not going to impede you; whats going to impede you is not working effectively and/or dropping out or doing a different degree.

Again I should triple underline; there's nothing wrong with just wanting something for the sake of it. Maybe you just want to work in a bank, and it would improve your chances to have a cambridge physics degree. in that case, physnatsci is probably easier (or at least, less stressful) to get into than Maths is.

I would really like to focus on physics, but people say it will deter my chances of getting in since people reading the PS would probably be math professors, is that true?

Whoever told you this has no idea what they are talking about, a huge chunk of Cambridge Maths applicants have specific interests in physics and other applied aspects of Maths; its why they are applying to a Maths course that is famously much more applied than at other universities. Frankly it would probably be weird if a Cambridge Maths applicant did not have an interest in applied.

I would do the UCAS application properly, but I can tell you that a lot of Cambridge Maths professors wont care at all what is in your Personal Statement. There is a famous saying that they would give an offer to a certain inanimate object so long as it could reason logically and based on those I knew and have talked to over the years, I would agree with it.

Reply 5

Sinnoh

22

Do you want to do lab work?

Reply 6

martin_benzer

4

Maths + physics applicant here (Peterhouse), my PS is half half almost between maths and physics, but I end with a stronger note on maths, (from a philosophy of maths angle). Anyways, I'm myself most interested in theoretical HEP (QFT/string theory) type. Cambridge maths course as others say is very applied (you can pretty much do all theo physics by yr 3), I found the maths side of physics (ie foundations and derivations) much more interesting than practicals, so I opted for maths + physics. A stronger maths background would aid your reasoning skills for future physics career (more so than a practical lab/pure physics route). Unless there's a huge preference of doing lab work, I will say maths + physics at Cambridge is way superior than natsci in future physics research type career, (mind you it's only a first year course).

Reply 7

Bensozen

Original post

by Sinnoh

Do you want to do lab work?

Hey! If I do the mathematical tripos, is there any remote chance that I can do lab work? I am pretty curious, as I want to be a theoretical physicist but I do not want to be an ignorant with respect of the empiricism and laboratory work.

Reply 8

emmathehat

7

Original post

by Bensozen

Hey! If I do the mathematical tripos, is there any remote chance that I can do lab work? I am pretty curious, as I want to be a theoretical physicist but I do not want to be an ignorant with respect of the empiricism and laboratory work.

Hello. I think not. My son is in his second year of Maths at Cambridge and so far it's been all lectures; no lab work. Looking at the lectures for the third year (https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/undergrad/lecturelists), it seems there's just one non-examinable course in Laboratory Demonstrations in Fluid Dynamics which is lab-based. You could apply for Maths with Physics and then decide whether to do Maths or Nat Sci from Year 2?

Reply 9

melancollege

Universities Forum Helper

18

Original post

by Bensozen

Hey! If I do the mathematical tripos, is there any remote chance that I can do lab work? I am pretty curious, as I want to be a theoretical physicist but I do not want to be an ignorant with respect of the empiricism and laboratory work.

It's very unlikely. There is, as another poster said, the laboratory demonstrations in Fluid Dynamics but that is a small, non-examinable part of one course in third year. The Maths course is pretty much entirely exam-based (with some optional coding coursework) and laboratory work is not part of that. If you were to apply for the Mathematics with Physics options, then you would do all of the Physics laboratory work in first year (I'm not sure how much there is as I didn't do it) but after your second year you would continue alongside all of the other Maths students.

Note also that whilst you have the right to go to any lecture in the university where there is space, this doesn't apply to labs or smaller classes.

Reply 10

Sinnoh

22

Original post

by Bensozen

Hey! If I do the mathematical tripos, is there any remote chance that I can do lab work? I am pretty curious, as I want to be a theoretical physicist but I do not want to be an ignorant with respect of the empiricism and laboratory work.

If that's the case then you should do a theoretical physics degree

Mathematics with physics or natural sciences (physical) at Cambridge?

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