Trying to decide between Oxford's history degree and history (ancient + modern)

Both of the courses look fantastic for obvious reasons but I'm still undecided on which one to apply for come October.

The main differences and my concerns over them are as follows:

1. The main history course accepts roughly 220 students while A+M accepts around 24.
Despite this, their acceptance rates are exactly the same so I assume its simply based on demand. The UCAS points of the A+M candidates were higher on average, though, so will the candidates be of better quality?

2. A+M clearly covers a lot more ancient history which, while appealing, isn't likely to be as relevant in my future (though I want to work in law so the skills will probably be the same). Is the A+M degree less credible for employers, or is the fact it comes from Oxford good enough?
Most history syllabuses in school also tend to study modern history so I have done very little ancient history since I was young. Is it still worth applying for it and picking up the knowledge later?

3. A+M suggests either studying classics or an ancient language. I did Latin at GCSE but have done neither Classics nor Latin/Greek for A-Level. Will this make my application significantly less competitive, or do you think I can show my passion for the subject regardless?

4. On top of this all, A+M history can be in my opinion equated to a joint honours between history and classics. Does this provide open access to both sets of teachers or instead do the opposite, meaning there are specific A+M teachers?

Apologies for focusing largely on the ancient and modern course but the regular history one seemed pretty clear to me. Obviously both are competitive so I'll have my work cut out for me choosing either of them but if anyone has any insight into the differences and possible caveats of either course please let me know.
Thank you!

Reply 1

artful_lounger

Universities Forum Helper

As someone broadly interested in the ancient world doing a degree at another uni (but interested in some of the same periods, albeit some earlier ones and now skewing a little more to the ancient near east :biggrin:

), from what I can see about the AMH course at Oxford, and also based on general stuff I'm aware of regarding degrees and their influence on life in general:

1. If the acceptance rates are similar then this will simply be a demand factor like you say. Generally any kind of "ancient" related degree is usually somewhat less commonly applied to on average due to fewer people being interested in that I guess!

2. Neither history nor ancient history is specifically relevant to anything outside of teaching or academia. They're both perfectly acceptable for any kind of general grad scheme roles or for going into law or anything. I know that school leavers have a bugbear about degree subjects and names but really, nobody actually cares about what you studied for the most part they just want to see you have the piece of paper with a 2:1 or above in most cases.

3. Obviously it involves ancient history so some awareness and background in the area could be useful, but it's by no means required and you can certainly demonstrate your interest in the ancient history side of things through wider reading. If you did want to pursue ancient history at a graduate level at some point developing classical language skills would be desirable if not in fact essential, so having some background is useful and it may be worth continuing the language on the course if that is something you wanted to explore as an opportunity as well :smile:

4. Ancient history would presumably be taught by ancient historians, and modern history by modern historians. However there's a pretty big overlap in the late antiquity and Byzantium periods where people may be based in one department or the other (or both). It's really a bit besides the point though. The important thing though is that you'll invariably be taught by the specialists in the individual subject areas for each paper you take, be they in ancient or modern history - which department they sit in is just an administrative factor that's not really relevant I think.

Basically I think you just need to consider consider:

a) Do you want to study ancient history (at all)?
b) If you want to study ancient history, which of the three routes do you want to do it through:
1. Classics (this will involve a lot of language work, although you can take as many ancient history options as in AMH for the final honour school I believe)
2. AMH (this all as above, and will involve "modern" history work, although bear in mind that can include late antiquity, Byzantium, and medieval history as well as Early Modern and onwards; language work is optional for this but probably recommended if aiming for graduate study i.e. a PhD).
3. CAAH (which involves archaeological work as well, language work is optional for this but may be useful for some areas of graduate study at PhD level).

If you don't want to study ancient history in the first place then obviously there's little point doing the AMH course.

If you are principally interested in ancient history you may want to more strongly consider CAAH or classics (or classics & AMES depending on interests) as they may give you a broader contextual understanding of the ancient (Mediterranean) world which informs your approaches to the history of the period.

If you're interested in both equally (either as completely separate "spheres" of interest, or interrelated such as being interested in the late antique world and Byzantium, or in comparative themes of e.g. democracy or imperialism, or in the influence of the ancient world on more modern history) then obviously AMH would probably be a good fit (although for Byzantine/Late Antique stuff I gather it's not uncommon to go into that at graduate level after an undergraduate degree in classics and you really would need language skills for it which might be better served by classics - there are also some options in Byzantine and modern Greek literature in classics).

Reply 2

xyz1234567

A classical subject at A level is only on the “helpful” list not the “recommended” list so it won’t affect your chances of admission.

Most of the Joint Schools only have a small cohort but fewer people apply. Something to consider is whether it would bother you to be the only person in your year at your college doing your degree (you would also be taught with the main history or classics/CAAH cohorts).

Not having done much ancient history is not a problem but be prepared to demonstrate your passion for studying it.

There is no such thing as an AMH teacher - the tutors would come from the History Faculty and the Classics Faculty.