The Student Room Group

Realistic chances of UCL

Hello all,

I would be grateful to get a reality check from those with a lot of experience advising on chances of university admissions on here.

I have these 2 courses in mind to apply to at UCL:
1. Economics and Business with East European Studies (by the SSEES Department).
A-Level requirement: AAA, Maths required. Economics and Further Maths preferred.
GCSE Requirement: English Language at grade B or 6 and Mathematics at grade C or 4.

2. Statistical Science (International Programme) or Statistics BSc (both by the Statistical Department).
A-Level requirement: AstarAA, with Astar in Maths. Further Maths preferred; other preferred subject including Economics.
GCSE Requirement: English Language and Mathematics at grade C or 4.


My personal profile is as follows:

A-Level: Economics (A*), Business (A), Statistics (C, which I retook, and is now A). Statistics won't be part of an offer by the Statistics department as it is a retaken subject which they don't accept. I'm now looking to take Mathematics and Further Mathematics in a gap-year.

GCSEs: 2x 7s, 4x 6s, 4x 5s including English Language (5) and Mathematics (6), teacher assessed grades. I 'retook' English Language to meet university requirements i.e. actually sat it for the first time, and achieved a 9.


My concerns are:
- My GCSEs being a problem for the first course - as I have retaken English Language to meet their requirements. I hear some universities only consider the original sittings and to put it bluntly my performance was very poor.
- My A-Levels including both Economics and Business which is seen as overlapping I can imagine. This could be mitigated as I seek to take Maths and Further Maths, so my offer would consider just my performance in these 2 subjects only I assume. I'm not sure if considering all A-Levels in my profile may reduce my chance of an offer though.

Would be very helpful to hear thoughts, from people who have had similar thoughts or received offers from similar courses in the past. Thank you very much in advance. :smile:
UCL Stats doesn't accept A-level resits so I think you need to write that off as an option. I don't think the GCSE resits are an issue for either though, but as noted stats won't be a option anyway. I suspect SSEES is a possibility since they don't require A-level Maths (or stats) for their economics courses as they're designed to be taught to those without that background (you take a module covering the relevant material in first year.

That said I might suggest rethinking whether a highly mathematical degree is a good idea in the first place - and bear in mind economics at degree level is necessarily much more quantitative than A-level and is not really an "essay subject" in that way and would typically use A-level Maths and beyond routinely throughout the course.

But looking objectively at things: you got a modest grade in GCSE Maths, had to resit A-level Stats to get a stronger grade after a minimal pass initially, and didn't take A-level Maths (much less FM) at the time. The picture presented does not suggest maths is something that comes easily for you or is a strength for you, and I can't really say I'd recommend a very mathematical degree of any sort as a result. I am also not certain you will do that well trying to do A-level Maths in a year on that background (adding in FM seems completely beyond reason). So perhaps also consider exploring other options...?

It's not like you need to do a degree in stats or maths or economics to go into most business roles, or even many roles specifically in financial services which I can only assume is your goal. Investment banks and management consulting firms don't care what degree you did (they happily hire classicists and art historians as well as economists and mathematicians), and accountancy doesn't care what you did or where you did it. Outside of highly quantitative roles (e.g. actuarial roles, certain areas of finance which are very quantitative and quant finance itself) which frankly, I do not think you would enjoy or do well in based on your background, for most areas of "business" generally and even finance more specifically they're really rather agnostic about what you studied.
Reply 2
Original post by artful_lounger
UCL Stats doesn't accept A-level resits so I think you need to write that off as an option. I don't think the GCSE resits are an issue for either though, but as noted stats won't be a option anyway. I suspect SSEES is a possibility since they don't require A-level Maths (or stats) for their economics courses as they're designed to be taught to those without that background (you take a module covering the relevant material in first year.
That said I might suggest rethinking whether a highly mathematical degree is a good idea in the first place - and bear in mind economics at degree level is necessarily much more quantitative than A-level and is not really an "essay subject" in that way and would typically use A-level Maths and beyond routinely throughout the course.
But looking objectively at things: you got a modest grade in GCSE Maths, had to resit A-level Stats to get a stronger grade after a minimal pass initially, and didn't take A-level Maths (much less FM) at the time. The picture presented does not suggest maths is something that comes easily for you or is a strength for you, and I can't really say I'd recommend a very mathematical degree of any sort as a result. I am also not certain you will do that well trying to do A-level Maths in a year on that background (adding in FM seems completely beyond reason). So perhaps also consider exploring other options...?
It's not like you need to do a degree in stats or maths or economics to go into most business roles, or even many roles specifically in financial services which I can only assume is your goal. Investment banks and management consulting firms don't care what degree you did (they happily hire classicists and art historians as well as economists and mathematicians), and accountancy doesn't care what you did or where you did it. Outside of highly quantitative roles (e.g. actuarial roles, certain areas of finance which are very quantitative and quant finance itself) which frankly, I do not think you would enjoy or do well in based on your background, for most areas of "business" generally and even finance more specifically they're really rather agnostic about what you studied.

Thanks, appreciate the honest response. I'm aware it doesn't paint a good picture, but my story was reduced here. To explain my situation, I was apart of the cohort who didn't sit GCSEs originally. That influenced my choices and I was drawn away from continuing Maths at A-Level, which I originally wanted, due to my grade being very average. Instead I was told to pick Stats (without foresight of university options then). This isn't a sob story, but I hope it gives you a better picture of the reasoning behind this.

At A-Level, unfortunately I'd missed a Stats exam through illness the first time around. I retook to reflect my potential (which is futile for such courses who disregard retake subjects anyway). It is annoying as it is the only stem subject I did worse in compared to the essay-based ones, which I get reflects badly on me. Although hopefully, this can be an explanation used in my application to add a bit more context.

Regardless, I actually enjoy the subjects of Stats and Economics - it is a real interest of mine. I became full well aware in Y13 (too late) that Economics at degree-level required maths. So it would be something helpful towards actually pursuing my interests, and although I would be interested in similar fields of Consulting or IB (and no not quant), I'm saying this without consideration for careers as I've been repeatedly told it won't matter if I were to do any course at a target/semi-target.

No doubts about it, it is something that will be challenging to do in a year. I know perhaps Stats is a rare A-Level so you may not have seen the content, but a lot of our content overlapped with the Further Statistics options which helps. I know it might also sound insane but I am committed to trying at the very least - I know my chances may be poor with my profile. I will have backup options, to be clear. This is just a more risky option.

I'm under the assumption that the stats department will consider me still but if I have at least 3 non-resit A-Levels. Of course, that would mean either applying with Maths,Eco,Business or Maths, FM, Eco (likely stronger).

I forgot to mention previously, I did get into HPE with these A-levels and gcses in clearing - but I was rejected in the regular cycle citing my GCSEs. This is what is currently of concern to me (that that rejection will occur again due to my GCSEs), but I am unsure if a 'stronger' set of A-Levels with at least Maths, would override this.

I hope that better explains things. Would love to hear your thoughts again. Thank you. :smile:
Original post by Anonymous
Thanks, appreciate the honest response. I'm aware it doesn't paint a good picture, but my story was reduced here. To explain my situation, I was apart of the cohort who didn't sit GCSEs originally. That influenced my choices and I was drawn away from continuing Maths at A-Level, which I originally wanted, due to my grade being very average. Instead I was told to pick Stats (without foresight of university options then). This isn't a sob story, but I hope it gives you a better picture of the reasoning behind this.

At A-Level, unfortunately I'd missed a Stats exam through illness the first time around. I retook to reflect my potential (which is futile for such courses who disregard retake subjects anyway). It is annoying as it is the only stem subject I did worse in compared to the essay-based ones, which I get reflects badly on me. Although hopefully, this can be an explanation used in my application to add a bit more context.

Regardless, I actually enjoy the subjects of Stats and Economics - it is a real interest of mine. I became full well aware in Y13 (too late) that Economics at degree-level required maths. So it would be something helpful towards actually pursuing my interests, and although I would be interested in similar fields of Consulting or IB (and no not quant), I'm saying this without consideration for careers as I've been repeatedly told it won't matter if I were to do any course at a target/semi-target.

No doubts about it, it is something that will be challenging to do in a year. I know perhaps Stats is a rare A-Level so you may not have seen the content, but a lot of our content overlapped with the Further Statistics options which helps. I know it might also sound insane but I am committed to trying at the very least - I know my chances may be poor with my profile. I will have backup options, to be clear. This is just a more risky option.

I'm under the assumption that the stats department will consider me still but if I have at least 3 non-resit A-Levels. Of course, that would mean either applying with Maths,Eco,Business or Maths, FM, Eco (likely stronger).

I forgot to mention previously, I did get into HPE with these A-levels and gcses in clearing - but I was rejected in the regular cycle citing my GCSEs. This is what is currently of concern to me (that that rejection will occur again due to my GCSEs), but I am unsure if a 'stronger' set of A-Levels with at least Maths, would override this.

I hope that better explains things. Would love to hear your thoughts again. Thank you. :smile:

While I understand the situation I think unfortunately that's not really going to change the picture from an admissions perspective. Even aside from the fact they don't have all that information, even if they did do bear in mind the pandemic and the TAG/CAG/whatever grades affected the entire cohort. Other people applying to the course will have had that same experience so it's not really an "extenuating" circumstance because it affected everyone - while there may be arguments different people were affected to different extents by this, universities need to draw a line under the pandemic issues and need to be treating applicants more or less equally as a result.

Regarding the stats A-level, if you missed the exam due to illness then you should have applied for mitigating circumstances through your school to the exam board and they would have taken the necessary actions to address that without resitting the whole A-level. If you did this but are just calling it a resit then that's really confusing and not very helpful for anyone, as it wouldn't be a resit if e.g. you applied for mit. circ. and the outcome was you would be given the opportunity to take the missing exam in the next exam session.

In terms of your mathematical strengths and/or background - my point would be that if you are quite good at maths then your TAG/CAG grades should likely have reflected this as it would be more likely that you could be good at maths but have a "bad day" in the exam as a one off and underperform, than to have your teacher judge your consistent performance across the year as being at that level. It's not about "pulling it out on the exam day" - for a very mathematical course like that you need to be able to just fluently use that kind of maths without really having to think about it or do "crunch time" revision for it. So I think those are still valid considerations.

In any event I think we need to focus on the immediate facts:

UCL Stats doesn't accept A-level resits so that's not an option.

There's no guarantee with reapplying to other courses regardless of GCSE factors, however I think the SSEES course is probably the most likely option anyway since SSEES tends to be a bit under-subscribed and as you saw, when UCL entered the main clearing period this year for the first time, several SSEES courses were in it and you did get an offer. However there's no guarantee this will happen again!
Reply 4
Yep, I can completely see your reply about the admissions perspective. I get it isn't really extenuating circumstances for the TAG in the case of GCSEs, but there's a larger story with the A-Levels (which I realise I have to submit an EC form for). Regarding the former also I can't feasibly retake my GCSEs due to cost but also the fact I'm taking them after A-Levels. Of course we all know it is expected for someone who has finished A-Levels to do better in their GCSEs - so I think it will still be discounted even if I were to.

About Mathematics you raise a good point, the TAG ought to have levelled things out. I can feel a way about it but that's how they'll see it at the end of the day. What would you recommend in my situation would help to show that I have changed prior to taking the exams? I get your view that, irrespective of my predicted grades, it might be tough for them to visualise someone who got a 6 in GCSE get an Astar or A in Maths A-Level - but I don't have the ability to apply once these are all done to show that as that would be another year. I am hoping my retaken A-Level Statistics can at least show I am capable of being at that grade in a fairly Mathematic context.

As for the clearing situation, agreed. I think the jump in boundaries this year may have caused that. Even Management was in clearing which was surprising.

About your comment on the Stats department. From memory, I put in an email and feel like I remember that they will still consider me as the A-Level offers are based on 3 A-Levels that aren't resat. Could you expand on what you know of this? Either way will send an email as mentioned to confirm this again.

Appreciate your time so far.

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