Ukraine peace plan, could it work?

Original post by Wired_1800

I seek peace. If they seek conflict, that’s their decision.

It's hilarious that you claim a people defending their country against aggressive invaders are "seeking conflict", but the invading Russians aren't.

Reply 22

Original post by 2WheelGod

It's hilarious that you claim a people defending their country against aggressive invaders are "seeking conflict", but the invading Russians aren't.

I never said that the Russians arent.

Reply 23

Original post by Wired_1800

I never said that the Russians arent.

So you accept that the Russians are the aggressors in their invasion of Ukraine.
Do you also accept that a sovereign nation has the right to defend itself against aggressive invasion?

Reply 24

Original post by 2WheelGod

So you accept that the Russians are the aggressors in their invasion of Ukraine.
Do you also accept that a sovereign nation has the right to defend itself against aggressive invasion?

What is going on? That’s not the essence of this thread. This thread talks about peace.

Reply 25

Original post by Wired_1800

What is going on? That’s not the essence of this thread. This thread talks about peace.

Unlike you to avoid a question that might result in criticism of Putin.

And of course any peace solution for any conflict necessarily requires an understanding of the basic concepts underlying the situation, like who is the aggressor, and if the defenders have the right to defend themselves.

Reply 26

Original post by 2WheelGod

Unlike you to avoid a question that might result in criticism of Putin.
And of course any peace solution for any conflict necessarily requires an understanding of the basic concepts underlying the situation, like who is the aggressor, and if the defenders have the right to defend themselves.

Ok. To answer the question.

NO!!!! I do not accept that the Russians are the aggressors in their conflict with the Ukraine. If I am the President or leader of any nation and my country is threatened through the country joining a military alliance, I will never in my life hesitate to invade the country. If Britain was ever threatened and I was the leader, I wont hesitate to use any means necessary to protect British interests.

Yes, a sovereign nation has the right to defend itself against aggression.

Reply 27

Original post by Wired_1800

Ok. To answer the question.
NO!!!! I do not accept that the Russians are the aggressors in their conflict with the Ukraine. If I am the President or leader of any nation and my country is threatened through the country joining a military alliance, I will never in my life hesitate to invade the country. If Britain was ever threatened and I was the leader, I wont hesitate to use any means necessary to protect British interests.
Yes, a sovereign nation has the right to defend itself against aggression.

So if the EU formed a military alliance for members, you think the UK should invade France, Netherlands, Belgium and Germany, but we wouldn't be the aggressors, it would be the countries we were invading. 🤣
Classic Newspeak!

Reply 28

Original post by Wired_1800

Ok. To answer the question.
NO!!!! I do not accept that the Russians are the aggressors in their conflict with the Ukraine. If I am the President or leader of any nation and my country is threatened through the country joining a military alliance, I will never in my life hesitate to invade the country. If Britain was ever threatened and I was the leader, I wont hesitate to use any means necessary to protect British interests.
Yes, a sovereign nation has the right to defend itself against aggression.

"NO!!!! I do not accept that the Russians are the aggressors in their conflict with the Ukraine."
Legit

Reply 29

Original post by 2WheelGod

"NO!!!! I do not accept that the Russians are the aggressors in their conflict with the Ukraine."
Legit

Reply 30

Original post by 2WheelGod

So if the EU formed a military alliance for members, you think the UK should invade France, Netherlands, Belgium and Germany, but we wouldn't be the aggressors, it would be the countries we were invading. 🤣
Classic Newspeak!

The EU is not a military adversary of the UK.

Better example is if France was a single country and joined a military alliance with China, then we have to send our lads in.

Reply 31

random_matt

Let's all go to war knowing that we can all benefit from gaining land through peace talks, excellent.

Reply 32

Supermature

Original post by Wired_1800

What is going on? That’s not the essence of this thread. This thread talks about peace.

Quite so.

Reply 33

Supermature

Original post by Wired_1800

No, but it is reasonable to seek peace. It is a human way to think and not want war for other people’s family members whilst you sit miles away.

Perhaps you will agree with me that it is strange how so many people call for peace in every conflict across the globe - except this one.

I suspect we both know why that is.

Reply 34

Original post by Supermature

Perhaps you will agree with me that it is strange how so many people call for peace in every conflict across the globe - except this one.
I suspect we both know why that is.

The double standard and lack of real concern for Ukrainian lives is appalling.

Reply 35

Supermature

Original post by 2WheelGod

"It is disgusting imho that some in the public seem to want the conflict to continue when their family members are not involved."
Given that pretty much every Ukrainian opposes surrender to the Russian aggressor, and they "have family members involved", it is disgusting that people would have them roll over and let Putin's jackboots stomp all over them.

Actually, it is not quite that simple.

New Polling Shows Significant Ukrainian Support for Diplomacy to End the War:
There is more dissent from the Zelensky government’s war aims than may appear.

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/ukraine-russia-zelensky-war-peace-diplomacy/

"Polling since the failure of Ukraine’s 2023 offensive shows that 44 percent of Ukrainians favour entering into talks with Russia and only 48 percent—still a plurality but, notably, no longer a majority—believe Ukraine should fight on. Other recent polling shows that even in Kyiv, where Ukraine’s elite and bureaucracy is concentrated and political investment in the war effort is at its highest, complete confidence in Ukrainian victory is weakening...

Tellingly, recent surveys—including a new poll from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace— suggest that the share of Ukrainians open to a negotiated settlement has dramatically risen over the past year and, if present trends hold, is well on the way to becoming a majority-held view."

In one poll, 43% of respondents indicated that they would accept a solution whereby Russia withdrew to the pre 2022 invasion borders, while 46% were opposed - a fairly even split.

The desire for a diplomatic solution is likely to grow further as opposition to funding the Ukrainian military effort grows in Europe and the US. This is what I have repeatedly warned about in the main thread on the Ukraine conflict, elsewhere in this forum.

Moreover, there is danger of huge civil unrest if Ukraine's front line collapses and its people have to endure yet further suffering without anything to show for it.

To his credit, Mr Zelensky has recently hinted that Ukraine will not be able to reclaim all its territory by military means - a major departure from his stance just months ago.

All wars are tragic but this is especially so. The issues at stake could so easily have been settled without a shot being fired. Like it or not, powerful countries such as Russia, China and the US will not stand by and watch rivals curry favour with smaller, less powerful countries on their doorstep.

Regardless of where we place the blame, what matters now is bringing the death and destruction to an end - just as we hope to do in the Middle East and elsewhere. It is unconscionable to encourage Ukraine to carry on fighting when the prospect of victory on the terms its government seeks is so remote.

(edited 3 weeks ago)

Reply 36

Quady

Original post by Wired_1800

I think it would be a good deal in addition to a permanent treaty that Ukraine never join Nato. President Putin may support that peace deal and I suggest all parties to engage in it.

I think it would be a good deal in addition to a permanent treaty that Russia never spends more than 1% of GDP on defense. President Zelenskyy may support that peace deal and I suggest all parties to engage in it.

Reply 37

Quady

Original post by Wired_1800

Ok. To answer the question.
NO!!!! I do not accept that the Russians are the aggressors in their conflict with the Ukraine. If I am the President or leader of any nation and my country is threatened through the country joining a military alliance, I will never in my life hesitate to invade the country. If Britain was ever threatened and I was the leader, I wont hesitate to use any means necessary to protect British interests.
Yes, a sovereign nation has the right to defend itself against aggression.

If you were the President or leader of any nation and your country is partly occupied with foriegn forces would you ever sign a peace deal where you gave territority twice the size of the existing line including half your unoccupied capital?

Reply 38

Original post by Quady

I think it would be a good deal in addition to a permanent treaty that Russia never spends more than 1% of GDP on defense. President Zelenskyy may support that peace deal and I suggest all parties to engage in it.

Yes, it can be part of the negotiations. If Russia refuse, they continue to delete Ukrainians from the face of the earth whilst the west say “Slava Ukraini”

(edited 3 weeks ago)

Reply 39