What law firms are full of females associates/partners?
I'm applying for vacation schemes this year and this question popped up to me when I'm considering law firms because I prefer a law firm that is a mix full of males and females so I'm wondering if any trainees/partners/associates can give me an insight into what law firms are full of females as I'm a male and I wouldn't really feel comfortable being in a law firm full of just females staff
Original post by wizard783
I'm applying for vacation schemes this year and this question popped up to me when I'm considering law firms because I prefer a law firm that is a mix full of males and females so I'm wondering if any trainees/partners/associates can give me an insight into what law firms are full of females as I'm a male and I wouldn't really feel comfortable being in a law firm full of just females staff
Why not? What's your problem with women?
The late, great Ruth Bader Ginsberg was once asked when there would be "enough" women in the Supreme Court. She replied "when there are nine".
One hundred years ago, there were hardly any women barristers or solicitors. Fifty years ago, there were quite a few, but not many were partners in law firms or had taken silk, and women tended to be clustered in family law and criminal law. Later, women tended also to be clustered in employment law.
in 2024, the junior to middle ranks of the legal profession are about fifty/fifty women and men, and women are active in all areas of legal practice. Glass ceilings haven't vanished altogether, but more and more women are partners, silks, and judges.
OP, you can't have a time machine in which to travel back to the days of all male or mostly male law firms. Your boss might be a woman. Get used to it!
https://first100years.org.uk/
https://next100years.org.uk/
One hundred years ago, there were hardly any women barristers or solicitors. Fifty years ago, there were quite a few, but not many were partners in law firms or had taken silk, and women tended to be clustered in family law and criminal law. Later, women tended also to be clustered in employment law.
in 2024, the junior to middle ranks of the legal profession are about fifty/fifty women and men, and women are active in all areas of legal practice. Glass ceilings haven't vanished altogether, but more and more women are partners, silks, and judges.
OP, you can't have a time machine in which to travel back to the days of all male or mostly male law firms. Your boss might be a woman. Get used to it!
https://first100years.org.uk/
https://next100years.org.uk/
Original post by Stiffy Byng
Why not? What's your problem with women?
i have no problem with women its just that i wouldnt really feel comfortable if im the only male in the law firm and everyone else is female as i get quite anxious and they may think im wierd or quite different from them as im used to mainly guys. i dont hate them its just what if everyone that i work with is all females and i dont see many males. 😭
Original post by wizard783
i have no problem with women its just that i wouldnt really feel comfortable if im the only male in the law firm and everyone else is female as i get quite anxious and they may think im wierd or quite different from them as im used to mainly guys. i dont hate them its just what if everyone that i work with is all females and i dont see many males. 😭
You haven't explained your objection to a working environment in which the other people are all women.
Women aren't aliens. I hope that you haven't been reading nonsense by Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate. Would you be uncomfortable if everyone else in the office was male?
In any event, you won't find many firms in which all of the owners and staff are women. Any medium sized to large law firm will usually have a mix of men and women, and may still have a preponderance of men in its upper echelons, although that is becoming rarer.
Well, this wasn't quite how I imagined the thread to pan out when I read the title!
You won't find any firms which are "full" of women, just as you won't find any that are full of men. As Stiffy notes, most of the larger firms have a roughly equal female/male split at the junior to mid levels. Unfortunately, the proportion of women at the more senior levels (Counsel and Partner) drops. If you look at Clifford Chance for example: approx. 67% of their partners are male whereas there is a roughly even split at an associate level. Linklaters is 70%/30% at a partnership level, HSF 73%/27%. A more mid-tier firm such as Stephenson Harwood is 70/30.
I would hope that, if you're considering going into a profession like the law, the sex of your colleagues will be an irrelevance. If interacting with women is a challenge for you, then I'd suggest you address that yourself rather than seeking out a workplace which has few women working there. Even if you stumbled across some form of dinosaur firm which isn't suitably diverse, you will be interacting with women all the time: lawyers at other firms, barristers and your clients.
For what it's worth, the best colleagues and managers I've had throughout my 25 year career have been women.
You won't find any firms which are "full" of women, just as you won't find any that are full of men. As Stiffy notes, most of the larger firms have a roughly equal female/male split at the junior to mid levels. Unfortunately, the proportion of women at the more senior levels (Counsel and Partner) drops. If you look at Clifford Chance for example: approx. 67% of their partners are male whereas there is a roughly even split at an associate level. Linklaters is 70%/30% at a partnership level, HSF 73%/27%. A more mid-tier firm such as Stephenson Harwood is 70/30.
I would hope that, if you're considering going into a profession like the law, the sex of your colleagues will be an irrelevance. If interacting with women is a challenge for you, then I'd suggest you address that yourself rather than seeking out a workplace which has few women working there. Even if you stumbled across some form of dinosaur firm which isn't suitably diverse, you will be interacting with women all the time: lawyers at other firms, barristers and your clients.
For what it's worth, the best colleagues and managers I've had throughout my 25 year career have been women.
Original post by Stiffy Byng
You haven't explained your objection to a working environment in which the other people are all women.
Women aren't aliens. I hope that you haven't been reading nonsense by Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate. Would you be uncomfortable if everyone else in the office was male?
In any event, you won't find many firms in which all of the owners and staff are women. Any medium sized to large law firm will usually have a mix of men and women, and may still have a preponderance of men in its upper echelons, although that is becoming rarer.
Women aren't aliens. I hope that you haven't been reading nonsense by Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate. Would you be uncomfortable if everyone else in the office was male?
In any event, you won't find many firms in which all of the owners and staff are women. Any medium sized to large law firm will usually have a mix of men and women, and may still have a preponderance of men in its upper echelons, although that is becoming rarer.
its just that i had work experience in a family law firm 3 weeks ago and everyone there was all females as soon as i entered inside and greeted everyone and sat down they all didnt speak to me or tell me what my tasks were and i felt quite isolated so i just sat down on my phone waiting for the clock. its just gives me flashbacks because i fear that when i speak to women they dont usually vibe with me or talk to me properly because the office i was in i felt left out as all of them were talking to each other and i was just staring at a screen and thats why i fear it might happen again the future because i tried speaking to them but i sensed a different vibe and how they acted. I also had a female mentor who i reached out to only twice and after that she just aired me completely and didn't respond back to me or help me in anyway. I always made sure i didnt distract her but she just seemed to not care and i felt like i did something wrong but i didnt and i feel like it was her fault as i tried to send her stuff and message but she just didnt message me back.🥲
Original post by chalks
Well, this wasn't quite how I imagined the thread to pan out when I read the title!
You won't find any firms which are "full" of women, just as you won't find any that are full of men. As Stiffy notes, most of the larger firms have a roughly equal female/male split at the junior to mid levels. Unfortunately, the proportion of women at the more senior levels (Counsel and Partner) drops. If you look at Clifford Chance for example: approx. 67% of their partners are male whereas there is a roughly even split at an associate level. Linklaters is 70%/30% at a partnership level, HSF 73%/27%. A more mid-tier firm such as Stephenson Harwood is 70/30.
I would hope that, if you're considering going into a profession like the law, the sex of your colleagues will be an irrelevance. If interacting with women is a challenge for you, then I'd suggest you address that yourself rather than seeking out a workplace which has few women working there. Even if you stumbled across some form of dinosaur firm which isn't suitably diverse, you will be interacting with women all the time: lawyers at other firms, barristers and your clients.
For what it's worth, the best colleagues and managers I've had throughout my 25 year career have been women.
You won't find any firms which are "full" of women, just as you won't find any that are full of men. As Stiffy notes, most of the larger firms have a roughly equal female/male split at the junior to mid levels. Unfortunately, the proportion of women at the more senior levels (Counsel and Partner) drops. If you look at Clifford Chance for example: approx. 67% of their partners are male whereas there is a roughly even split at an associate level. Linklaters is 70%/30% at a partnership level, HSF 73%/27%. A more mid-tier firm such as Stephenson Harwood is 70/30.
I would hope that, if you're considering going into a profession like the law, the sex of your colleagues will be an irrelevance. If interacting with women is a challenge for you, then I'd suggest you address that yourself rather than seeking out a workplace which has few women working there. Even if you stumbled across some form of dinosaur firm which isn't suitably diverse, you will be interacting with women all the time: lawyers at other firms, barristers and your clients.
For what it's worth, the best colleagues and managers I've had throughout my 25 year career have been women.
yeah i understand all of this but i don't really do anything wrong i feel like they are against me and i can't seem to befriend women in general as i'm not sure what im doing wrong as i feel more comfortable with men these days compared to women. i wouldn't mind being with females but its just i feel like if im there ill most likely be left out and isolated from everyone else.
I'm assuming you're currently at University, if you're applying for formal vacation schemes? Do you find it difficult to interact with women in social situations, or only in the workplace?
If this is an issue for you in life in general, then you might want to explore (with the help of a professional) why you find that so challenging. Trying to find or create a working environment that avoids women isn't going to be a successful long-term coping strategy.
In terms of your experience at the family law firm recently, there could have many factors at play. Perhaps they were busy. Perhaps they were rude. Perhaps they were incompetent. Perhaps they weren't used to having an intern and didn't know how to manage you properly. Perhaps there was something about your attitude or approach which caused the problems. But the risk is that you're thinking "I had a bad experience at a law firm. That firm mainly consisted of women. It was something about their sex/gender which caused the problems. Women at other law firms will be the same and I will have similar bad experiences if I work with women. Therefore, I should find a law firm which doesn't have many women."
If this is an issue for you in life in general, then you might want to explore (with the help of a professional) why you find that so challenging. Trying to find or create a working environment that avoids women isn't going to be a successful long-term coping strategy.
In terms of your experience at the family law firm recently, there could have many factors at play. Perhaps they were busy. Perhaps they were rude. Perhaps they were incompetent. Perhaps they weren't used to having an intern and didn't know how to manage you properly. Perhaps there was something about your attitude or approach which caused the problems. But the risk is that you're thinking "I had a bad experience at a law firm. That firm mainly consisted of women. It was something about their sex/gender which caused the problems. Women at other law firms will be the same and I will have similar bad experiences if I work with women. Therefore, I should find a law firm which doesn't have many women."
Original post by chalks
I'm assuming you're currently at University, if you're applying for formal vacation schemes? Do you find it difficult to interact with women in social situations, or only in the workplace?
If this is an issue for you in life in general, then you might want to explore (with the help of a professional) why you find that so challenging. Trying to find or create a working environment that avoids women isn't going to be a successful long-term coping strategy.
In terms of your experience at the family law firm recently, there could have many factors at play. Perhaps they were busy. Perhaps they were rude. Perhaps they were incompetent. Perhaps they weren't used to having an intern and didn't know how to manage you properly. Perhaps there was something about your attitude or approach which caused the problems. But the risk is that you're thinking "I had a bad experience at a law firm. That firm mainly consisted of women. It was something about their sex/gender which caused the problems. Women at other law firms will be the same and I will have similar bad experiences if I work with women. Therefore, I should find a law firm which doesn't have many women."
If this is an issue for you in life in general, then you might want to explore (with the help of a professional) why you find that so challenging. Trying to find or create a working environment that avoids women isn't going to be a successful long-term coping strategy.
In terms of your experience at the family law firm recently, there could have many factors at play. Perhaps they were busy. Perhaps they were rude. Perhaps they were incompetent. Perhaps they weren't used to having an intern and didn't know how to manage you properly. Perhaps there was something about your attitude or approach which caused the problems. But the risk is that you're thinking "I had a bad experience at a law firm. That firm mainly consisted of women. It was something about their sex/gender which caused the problems. Women at other law firms will be the same and I will have similar bad experiences if I work with women. Therefore, I should find a law firm which doesn't have many women."
yes im in university and this hasnt really happened to me before because usually i am alright with females but its just that my experience in the family law as well as the mentor I had just brought me down and i wasnt rude i told them to send me tasks to complete but they didnt and im not sure if they heard me because they were trying to speak to someone else and this experience was for 7 days i quit in the 2nd day because i just felt like they didn't want me to be here. same with the mentor i tried to get another one which i got and i got a male person this time and hes better then the previous one i had. i don't have problems with every women but i think they have a problem with me as i can speak properly and form a conversation but its just that they let me down at times and i hope it doesnt happen when i get a vac scheme
Original post by chalks
I'm assuming you're currently at University, if you're applying for formal vacation schemes? Do you find it difficult to interact with women in social situations, or only in the workplace?
If this is an issue for you in life in general, then you might want to explore (with the help of a professional) why you find that so challenging. Trying to find or create a working environment that avoids women isn't going to be a successful long-term coping strategy.
In terms of your experience at the family law firm recently, there could have many factors at play. Perhaps they were busy. Perhaps they were rude. Perhaps they were incompetent. Perhaps they weren't used to having an intern and didn't know how to manage you properly. Perhaps there was something about your attitude or approach which caused the problems. But the risk is that you're thinking "I had a bad experience at a law firm. That firm mainly consisted of women. It was something about their sex/gender which caused the problems. Women at other law firms will be the same and I will have similar bad experiences if I work with women. Therefore, I should find a law firm which doesn't have many women."
If this is an issue for you in life in general, then you might want to explore (with the help of a professional) why you find that so challenging. Trying to find or create a working environment that avoids women isn't going to be a successful long-term coping strategy.
In terms of your experience at the family law firm recently, there could have many factors at play. Perhaps they were busy. Perhaps they were rude. Perhaps they were incompetent. Perhaps they weren't used to having an intern and didn't know how to manage you properly. Perhaps there was something about your attitude or approach which caused the problems. But the risk is that you're thinking "I had a bad experience at a law firm. That firm mainly consisted of women. It was something about their sex/gender which caused the problems. Women at other law firms will be the same and I will have similar bad experiences if I work with women. Therefore, I should find a law firm which doesn't have many women."
also how can i find the data of the ratio of men - women in different law firms? do i look on their website for clarification? additionally how they like when u start working with them in the law firms? are females friendly and would they become ur friend?
Original post by wizard783
its just that i had work experience in a family law firm 3 weeks ago and everyone there was all females as soon as i entered inside and greeted everyone and sat down they all didnt speak to me or tell me what my tasks were and i felt quite isolated so i just sat down on my phone waiting for the clock. its just gives me flashbacks because i fear that when i speak to women they dont usually vibe with me or talk to me properly because the office i was in i felt left out as all of them were talking to each other and i was just staring at a screen and thats why i fear it might happen again the future because i tried speaking to them but i sensed a different vibe and how they acted. I also had a female mentor who i reached out to only twice and after that she just aired me completely and didn't respond back to me or help me in anyway. I always made sure i didnt distract her but she just seemed to not care and i felt like i did something wrong but i didnt and i feel like it was her fault as i tried to send her stuff and message but she just didnt message me back.🥲
I don't think this was a reflection on the gender breakdown of the firm and was more a reflection on the firm not really managing someone on work experience very well.
There may also be some responsibility on your part as a work experience candidate to make yourself useful and find things to work on, as well as to directly engage with people there and ask them about their work, what they're working on, if there's anything you can do to help, etc.
Original post by artful_lounger
I don't think this was a reflection on the gender breakdown of the firm and was more a reflection on the firm not really managing someone on work experience very well.
There may also be some responsibility on your part as a work experience candidate to make yourself useful and find things to work on, as well as to directly engage with people there and ask them about their work, what they're working on, if there's anything you can do to help, etc.
There may also be some responsibility on your part as a work experience candidate to make yourself useful and find things to work on, as well as to directly engage with people there and ask them about their work, what they're working on, if there's anything you can do to help, etc.
I did ask them and engage with them if they have any work for me and they said let me have a look but then it was an hour and it was lunch time and i still didn't recieve any work from them and i just ate lunch by myself and walked around so all i did was just go on the computers and browse through the files and be on my phone 24/7 just staring and not doing anything. Even in the environment i was in all of them were talking about their holidays and what they were going to do on the weekend while i was just sat down and trying to listen to what they were saying.
Original post by wizard783
yes im in university and this hasnt really happened to me before because usually i am alright with females but its just that my experience in the family law as well as the mentor I had just brought me down and i wasnt rude i told them to send me tasks to complete but they didnt and im not sure if they heard me because they were trying to speak to someone else and this experience was for 7 days i quit in the 2nd day because i just felt like they didn't want me to be here. same with the mentor i tried to get another one which i got and i got a male person this time and hes better then the previous one i had. i don't have problems with every women but i think they have a problem with me as i can speak properly and form a conversation but its just that they let me down at times and i hope it doesnt happen when i get a vac scheme
If you read this post back to yourself, can you perhaps see that this could be a "you" problem and not a "them" problem?
Some examples:
•
You "told them" to send you tasks, but they didn't although you're not sure if they heard you because they were already talking to someone else
•
You quit on the 2nd day?
•
You asked for another mentor, rather than persevering with the one you had
•
You think women have a problem with you and they let you down. That either means that 50% of the population are a nasty bunch and out to get you, or there's something about you which could be challenging.
I would look back at your experience of the vac scheme and be honest with yourself. Could you have acted differently? Could there have been other factors at play which prompted their behaviour, which was unrelated to you i.e. how busy there were, lack of understanding how to look after an intern etc? When you look at all of that, does it seem fair to attribute the "blame" on the basis of their sex/gender?
Original post by wizard783
I did ask them and engage with them if they have any work for me and they said let me have a look but then it was an hour and it was lunch time and i still didn't recieve any work from them and i just ate lunch by myself and walked around so all i did was just go on the computers and browse through the files and be on my phone 24/7 just staring and not doing anything. Even in the environment i was in all of them were talking about their holidays and what they were going to do on the weekend while i was just sat down and trying to listen to what they were saying.
OP - Frankly that's not an uncommon situations for students on short term work experience placements, it's annoying and not great but the reason you didn't receive any work was probably because most of the staff didn't have any work that you could realistically do as someone new to their working environment and who wasn't trained on their systems.
It will have had nothing to do with the gender of the staff. Ditto whether you become friends with colleagues at work depends entirely on your individual personalities, nothing to do with being male or female.
Most firms of size are 40%+ women by headcount (yes, even ignoring support staff). It's likely that % will keep increasing as the trend in gender split on Law Society rolls (currently majority female) has been trending that way and doesn't appear to be stopping or slowing down any time soon.
That said, there are practice areas which have more/fewer of one gender or the other. Areas like construction or shipping are still male dominated while banking, corporate, media, environmental and others tend to have more women than men.
That said, there are practice areas which have more/fewer of one gender or the other. Areas like construction or shipping are still male dominated while banking, corporate, media, environmental and others tend to have more women than men.
Original post by wizard783
also how can i find the data of the ratio of men - women in different law firms? do i look on their website for clarification? additionally how they like when u start working with them in the law firms? are females friendly and would they become ur friend?
OP, it might assist if you stop referring to women as "females", and stop thinking in terms of generalisations and stereotypes. Women do not belong to a different species to you. You wouldn't exist if not for a woman.
Misogyny is a learned belief system. You can un-learn it.
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