The Student Room Group

Sometimes I think I'm not a relationship material

I've been in a great relationship that lasted almost 10 years. We've been through a lot together. The guy is still my best friend, but now he is married with kids. We broke up because he could not deal with me being bisexual and poly.... and didn't want to have kids...

Another guy I've been with who is very poly friendly (maybe even poly too with zero experience in poly relationships before me) we broke up because we defined our relationship differently. Now we lost contact too.

I've been in short term relationships too, but most of them led nowhere at all.

I'm almost 35, bisexual with much less experience with girls, I'm poly, don't want kids (maybe later). I'm looking for a serious relationship but I'm not actively looking. I mean I want a serious relationship, but I won't sign up for dating apps or social media stuff for that. I'm sort of fine the way it is now, but seeing everyone I know moving on with their life and I'm stuck being single and understanding that I'm actually getting older (despite feeling young) it sometimes makes me feel lonely and depressed. The pressure from my family don't help either.

Sometimes I think I will never find someone who accepts me the way I am and will stuck in a relationship I don't truly like or stuck being single for the rest of my life.

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Reply 1

You had a great relationship. The only problem that your guy had was you being bisexual and poly. Why not ditch those 2 traits and concentrate on find a man to have a serious relationship with? By the way, if you're open to having kids later, you should be mindful that it's biologically hard to have kids as you get older. So, if you've already had lots of fun as a single individual, why not open your mind to having lots of fun as a parent?

Reply 2

Original post by Anonymous
You had a great relationship. The only problem that your guy had was you being bisexual and poly. Why not ditch those 2 traits and concentrate on find a man to have a serious relationship with? By the way, if you're open to having kids later, you should be mindful that it's biologically hard to have kids as you get older. So, if you've already had lots of fun as a single individual, why not open your mind to having lots of fun as a parent?

1.

I want a relationship I can be myself in that relationship. I'm not going to pretend to be something I'm not. Compromising is ok, to a certain level.

2.

I know that it would be harder to get pregnant as I get older. I always felt like if I ever want kids I probably adopt a kid.

3.

I know I'd be good with kids, kids like me, I communicate well with them.

The thing is that I don't want kids now for may different reasons. I am open minded to the option it may change later.

Thanks for commenting anyway.

Reply 3

Original post by jetblack69
what part of uk you in

Not in UK. Why?

Reply 4

Original post by Kathy89
I've been in a great relationship that lasted almost 10 years. We've been through a lot together. The guy is still my best friend, but now he is married with kids. We broke up because he could not deal with me being bisexual and poly.... and didn't want to have kids...
Another guy I've been with who is very poly friendly (maybe even poly too with zero experience in poly relationships before me) we broke up because we defined our relationship differently. Now we lost contact too.
I've been in short term relationships too, but most of them led nowhere at all.
I'm almost 35, bisexual with much less experience with girls, I'm poly, don't want kids (maybe later). I'm looking for a serious relationship but I'm not actively looking. I mean I want a serious relationship, but I won't sign up for dating apps or social media stuff for that. I'm sort of fine the way it is now, but seeing everyone I know moving on with their life and I'm stuck being single and understanding that I'm actually getting older (despite feeling young) it sometimes makes me feel lonely and depressed. The pressure from my family don't help either.
Sometimes I think I will never find someone who accepts me the way I am and will stuck in a relationship I don't truly like or stuck being single for the rest of my life.

i'm not sure what to tell you, because my relationship history is a total mess... but can i ask why don't you want to try dating apps?

Reply 5

Original post by Kathy89
Not in UK. Why?

be careful, literally reported him this morning for being a perv. : <

Reply 6

Original post by Ciel.
i'm not sure what to tell you, because my relationship history is a total mess... but can i ask why don't you want to try dating apps?

I prefer to get to know a person first. People on dating sites and apps wear too many marks just to try to impress you. I also don't like social media so I'm mostly interacting with friends of friends or colleagues or people with common interests

Reply 7

Original post by Kathy89
I prefer to get to know a person first. People on dating sites and apps wear too many marks just to try to impress you. I also don't like social media so I'm mostly interacting with friends of friends or colleagues or people with common interests

right. yeah, i get that. but i imagine it's gonna pretty difficult to find a poly relationship irl. most people just aren't into it. i once suggested an open relationship to my partner. he pretty much went 'so you have chosen death' on me.

Reply 8

Original post by Ciel.
right. yeah, i get that. but i imagine it's gonna pretty difficult to find a poly relationship irl. most people just aren't into it. i once suggested an open relationship to my partner. he pretty much went 'so you have chosen death' on me.

Poly is not exactly an open relationship. It's a bit different.

Reply 9

Original post by Kathy89
Poly is not exactly an open relationship. It's a bit different.

oh, i thought that's what it was, just like, when partners agree to have relations outside their relationship. excuse my ignorance : <

Reply 10

If I am being honest, you are indeed not relationship material.

While there are some men out there who would accept that or be too desperate not to despite their own feelings, the combination of fertility concerns looming and an unwillingness to be loyal to a man means that your relative relationship value would not be especially high and limit the pool of men you'd actually want to be with further.

Your doing the correct thing avoiding online dating. It's a hellscape these days.

Reply 11

Original post by Ciel.
oh, i thought that's what it was, just like, when partners agree to have relations outside their relationship. excuse my ignorance : <

It is more complicated than that

Reply 12

Original post by Rakas21
If I am being honest, you are indeed not relationship material.
While there are some men out there who would accept that or be too desperate not to despite their own feelings, the combination of fertility concerns looming and an unwillingness to be loyal to a man means that your relative relationship value would not be especially high and limit the pool of men you'd actually want to be with further.
Your doing the correct thing avoiding online dating. It's a hellscape these days.

Poly relationship is actually very loyal, opposed to cheating on your partner with another partner.... Having multiple partners doesn't does not mean being disloyal.

While I understand what you meant, they way you presented it in your comment just show either ignorance about the polyamory or that you simply can't accept even the possibility of such a relationship being a normal thing (which is understandable and you have the right to have such an opinion).

My ex with whom I've been almost 10 years with, we broke up just because he couldn't cope with me having other relationships and I didn't want to hurt him. We are still best friends and still very loyal to each other. Me being open for the opportunity of having a female partner as well just was too much for him. Although he has nothing against the LGBTQ+ community, he didn't want to be a part of it in any way. Many people I meet are like that.

You are right that my demands for a relationship are pretty hard to fulfill. Although many girls are not interested in someone my age with almost zero experience with girls and low confidence.
With every bad experience I have in a relationship or just a simple date I have less and less confidence and more things to work on before I'm ready to have a relationship.

Reply 13

I'm kind of in the same boat as @Rakas21, if we're speaking candidly about what people value in relationships anyway. The poly thing would be a deal breaker moving forwards for me, while I might have been a bit more open to experimentation or more open relationships when I was younger, moving forward and building a life together I don't want to be sharing forever or being treated as a part time option.

Push comes to shove, its going to massively limit your dating pool and wider relationship value, at a guess it must rule out like 95% of people? and that's not even considering people who may be poly in way you can't agree or compromise with :/

Reply 14

Original post by StriderHort
I'm kind of in the same boat as @Rakas21, if we're speaking candidly about what people value in relationships anyway. The poly thing would be a deal breaker moving forwards for me, while I might have been a bit more open to experimentation or more open relationships when I was younger, moving forward and building a life together I don't want to be sharing forever or being treated as a part time option.
Push comes to shove, its going to massively limit your dating pool and wider relationship value, at a guess it must rule out like 95% of people? and that's not even considering people who may be poly in way you can't agree or compromise with :/

I know it rules out almost everyone. I just know I won't be able to live with someone who can't accept me for who I am.

What is harder for me, is that I was in a very good and very long relationship. When I am talking about a relationship I am not looking for a short term hook, I'm looking for a relationship, probably for the rest of our lives.

Poly relationship is more complexed than single relationship. I know that, and kind of like it more that way.

Thanks for your reply :smile:

Reply 15

Original post by Kathy89
I know it rules out almost everyone. I just know I won't be able to live with someone who can't accept me for who I am.
What is harder for me, is that I was in a very good and very long relationship. When I am talking about a relationship I am not looking for a short term hook, I'm looking for a relationship, probably for the rest of our lives.
Poly relationship is more complexed than single relationship. I know that, and kind of like it more that way.
Thanks for your reply :smile:

Correct.

I do not view poly relationships as sustainable and this is because divorce statistics clearly show that non-traditional marriages have an even higher divorce rate than a normal marriage which at 42% is still significant. Non traditional marriages (bar male homosexual relationships interestingly) basically have a 2 in 3 chance of failure.

Now I’m not saying that non traditional relationships are wrong but I am saying that the kind of liberal celebration of them is idiotic in the long run when you consider that polling of these people in middle age shows that far from being happy with the outcome, a lot are regretful and depressed. Same for the careerists who forgo children.

You actually demonstrate this yourself. You have a 10 year relationship which you go to great lengths to state was emotionally satisfying and without significant prohibitive issues and yet when given a choice between true commitment and separation, you chose to separate.

At the risk of sounding like a man, this is why you shouldn’t make significant decisions in a highly emotional manner. You have made a highly irrational choice based wholly on emotion having expended a decade of emotional investment (unless you never loved him).

My honest recommendation would be to get back with him and at least attempt to be with only him. You may find that the beauty of psychology means that over time it becomes easier to dampen your desire for other people.

Reply 16

Original post by Rakas21

You actually demonstrate this yourself. You have a 10 year relationship which you go to great lengths to state was emotionally satisfying and without significant prohibitive issues and yet when given a choice between true commitment and separation, you chose to separate.

I would not say it was completely satisfying. He was (and still is) the best friend I ever had. Emotionally, yes, it was a perfect relationship. Sexually less, we like different things, so it was most of the time a compromise.
So when I got introduced to poly (bare in mind that ever since my childhood the concept of one prince charming was strange for me... searching for a perfect ONE will make you miss many OK ones), so I realize that this is absolutely my thing. Poly relationships are difficult and require a lot of communication within the relationship, which I very like, because every relationship is flexible, people change, people learn eachother all the time and with time see different things in their partners, so communication is important always, especially in a more 'open' relationship.
We tried for a few years being together while we both in another relationship, it didn't fit him (which is understandable).

Original post by Rakas21
At the risk of sounding like a man, this is why you shouldn’t make significant decisions in a highly emotional manner. You have made a highly irrational choice based wholly on emotion having expended a decade of emotional investment (unless you never loved him).

We parted on very good terms and it is not like you described it 'emotional', as a matter of fact it was a very rational decision we discussed. I think if we were married it would've been different, much more emotional and much more painful. We are still close friends and we still love each other (as friends).

Original post by Rakas21
My honest recommendation would be to get back with him and at least attempt to be with only him. You may find that the beauty of psychology means that over time it becomes easier to dampen your desire for other people.

Too late. He already has a family. I'm happy seeing him happily married with kids. I know he wouldn't have that life with my by now, so I'm happy for him.

Reply 17

I have a feeling you might be evaluating your problem incorrectly. I think all these new-age creative labels like 'poly', 'bi', etc. might serve their purpose in some sense, but I also think a lot of people misuse those labels to mask an entirely different issue of theirs, pertaining to attachment styles.

You need to understand what your attachment style is. I won't list them here, as there is far better and practically infinite advice online about the topic. I'll just say that 'secure' attachment is the best kind of attachment. People often adapt polyamorous dating patterns as a result insecure attachment styles. It is effectively a mechanism that they subconsciously use to sabotage their prospects of a stable relationship.

If you are confident that you are of the 'secure' attachment type (which there is a good chance that you are, considering you were in a happy 10-year relationship) - then there is a chance you can find someone. But it is slim, and it is not because there's necessarily anything wrong with you. It's just that people with secure attachment styles who are also into 'authentic' polyamory, are very rare.

I had an interesting discussion about this on this forum some years ago with someone. We initially disagreed. They were polyamorous. Whereas I do not consider myself polyamorous (I'll elaborate on that in a bit), so we had strong differences of opinion obviously. But then we agreed, that in fact a lot of people label themselves 'polyamorous' as a pretext to just act promiscuous with zero meaning behind it. Inauthentic. Hence the stigma around it. As with a lot of things, the reality of it is often much less wholesome than the idealistic dictionary definition of it. People with promiscuous pasts, disproportionately have insecure attachment styles. And hence why there exists a perceived correlation between "polyamory" and insecure attachments. That's why I brought it up. Almost always when I hear someone bring up 'polyamory', or if I hear someone is in a relationship and sleeping around, etc. I am very put off wanting to have anything to do with them. Because some 90% of the time - what they say is total bullsht/t. Unfortunately. And it really sucks to be at the receiving end of it. Why would I take those odds? The chances are, I will just get messed around.

But there is that 10% that isn't bullsh/t. And I didn't make those figures up. Somewhere in the USA, they monitor success of open marriages. 90% of them allegedly end in divorce, compared to approximately 50-60% of conventional marriages. If you can figure out an effective and reliable way to filter out those 10% that actually work... then please you can probably give a Ted talk about it and make money from giving masterclasses.

Now, in my case - do I find myself attracted to multiple women? Sure I do. Thus, you could argue that I have some "polyamorous" tendencies, even though I do not act on them. There is the visceral / impulsive attraction 'at first sight', that I do not act upon and it also usually isn't very strong in me. Then there is a deeper attraction I experience when I get to know someone better and when I actually like them and see them as an equal, that is also much stronger. Even if I experience little/no physical attraction at first, that can be completely overturned by the 'deeper' attraction. My point is - the more I like someone, the less I tend to pay attention to other women the same way. It happens naturally, by itself. Thus I find it difficult to relate to and really understand polyamory. Because even though I might feel it occasionally... it usually is when my relationship with someone does not have a great deal of depth yet. Whereas the deeper my relationship is with them... it starts to then go away.

Another way I like to think of it as - is that you have a finite amount of time (24 hours) and energy (2000 calories) per day. Empathy, is a brain activity that consumes energy. How much is not important. The point is, it is not infinite, even if it might sometimes feel like it. You will know this, if you ever noticed that an intense 'high' is often followed by a 'dip' to compensate it. Intense emotions can be draining, and require recovery time. Similarly, the more you invest in one person in an intimate relationship, the less you will have to simultaneously invest into intimate relationships with others. It becomes a lot of effort to maintain. It becomes tiring. You experience more 'highs' and 'lows' as a result. Etc. These kinds of emotional rollercoasters, again, are typical of insecure attachment styles.

The counter-argument is that a perfectly secure attachment, will have no rollercoasters, and will therefore require very little energy to maintain. Thus a perfectly secure attachment, can lend itself to a polyamorous relationships. However:

About 60% of adults have secure attachments.

The majority of them are (naturally) in stable relationships. So let's assume that just 30% of single people have secure attachments.

Therefore, to form a stable polyamorous relationship (of at least 3 people) - your odds are: 30% ^ 3 = 3% (probably higher... because people with complimentary attachment styles are more likely to attract each other - but even if so, the odds are still relatively slim).

And that is also assuming that all those adults with secure attachment styles would be open to the idea of polyamory, which is probably not the case. I mean... if you can pull it off, great. But it will be difficult.

Bottom line is... I am sceptical. I am not trying to be critical. Just sceptical. It is complicated I know. Hopefully my essay was useful somehow.
(edited 9 months ago)

Reply 18

Original post by NonIndigenous
I have a feeling you might be evaluating your problem incorrectly. I think all these new-age creative labels like 'poly', 'bi', etc. might serve their purpose in some sense, but I also think a lot of people misuse those labels to mask an entirely different issue of theirs, pertaining to attachment styles.
You need to understand what your attachment style is. I won't list them here, as there is far better and practically infinite advice online about the topic. I'll just say that 'secure' attachment is the best kind of attachment. People often adapt polyamorous dating patterns as a result insecure attachment styles. It is effectively a mechanism that they subconsciously use to sabotage their prospects of a stable relationship.
If you are confident that you are of the 'secure' attachment type (which there is a good chance that you are, considering you were in a happy 10-year relationship) - then there is a chance you can find someone. But it is slim, and it is not because there's necessarily anything wrong with you. It's just that people with secure attachment styles who are also into 'authentic' polyamory, are very rare.
I had an interesting discussion about this on this forum some years ago with someone. We initially disagreed. They were polyamorous. Whereas I do not consider myself polyamorous (I'll elaborate on that in a bit), so we had strong differences of opinion obviously. But then we agreed, that in fact a lot of people label themselves 'polyamorous' as a pretext to just act promiscuous with zero meaning behind it. Inauthentic. Hence the stigma around it. As with a lot of things, the reality of it is often much less wholesome than the idealistic dictionary definition of it. People with promiscuous pasts, disproportionately have insecure attachment styles. And hence why there exists a perceived correlation between "polyamory" and insecure attachments. That's why I brought it up. Almost always when I hear someone bring up 'polyamory', or if I hear someone is in a relationship and sleeping around, etc. I am very put off wanting to have anything to do with them. Because some 90% of the time - what they say is total bullsht/t. Unfortunately. And it really sucks to be at the receiving end of it. Why would I take those odds? The chances are, I will just get messed around.
But there is that 10% that isn't bullsh/t. And I didn't make those figures up. Somewhere in the USA, they monitor success of open marriages. 90% of them allegedly end in divorce, compared to approximately 50-60% of conventional marriages. If you can figure out an effective and reliable way to filter out those 10% that actually work... then please you can probably give a Ted talk about it and make money from giving masterclasses.
Now, in my case - do I find myself attracted to multiple women? Sure I do. Thus, you could argue that I have some "polyamorous" tendencies, even though I do not act on them. There is the visceral / impulsive attraction 'at first sight', that I do not act upon and it also usually isn't very strong in me. Then there is a deeper attraction I experience when I get to know someone better and when I actually like them and see them as an equal, that is also much stronger. Even if I experience little/no physical attraction at first, that can be completely overturned by the 'deeper' attraction. My point is - the more I like someone, the less I tend to pay attention to other women the same way. It happens naturally, by itself. Thus I find it difficult to relate to and really understand polyamory. Because even though I might feel it occasionally... it usually is when my relationship with someone does not have a great deal of depth yet. Whereas the deeper my relationship is with them... it starts to then go away.
Another way I like to think of it as - is that you have a finite amount of time (24 hours) and energy (2000 calories) per day. Empathy, is a brain activity that consumes energy. How much is not important. The point is, it is not infinite, even if it might sometimes feel like it. You will know this, if you ever noticed that an intense 'high' is often followed by a 'dip' to compensate it. Intense emotions can be draining, and require recovery time. Similarly, the more you invest in one person in an intimate relationship, the less you will have to simultaneously invest into intimate relationships with others. It becomes a lot of effort to maintain. It becomes tiring. You experience more 'highs' and 'lows' as a result. Etc. These kinds of emotional rollercoasters, again, are typical of insecure attachment styles.
The counter-argument is that a perfectly secure attachment, will have no rollercoasters, and will therefore require very little energy to maintain. Thus a perfectly secure attachment, can lend itself to a polyamorous relationships. However:

About 60% of adults have secure attachments.

The majority of them are (naturally) in stable relationships. So let's assume that just 30% of single people have secure attachments.

Therefore, to form a stable polyamorous relationship (of at least 3 people) - your odds are: 30% ^ 3 = 3% (probably higher... because people with complimentary attachment styles are more likely to attract each other - but even if so, the odds are still relatively slim).

And that is also assuming that all those adults with secure attachment styles would be open to the idea of polyamory, which is probably not the case. I mean... if you can pull it off, great. But it will be difficult.
Bottom line is... I am sceptical. I am not trying to be critical. Just sceptical. It is complicated I know. Hopefully my essay was useful somehow.

That's exactly how I feel about Poly relationships and why they are not really an open relationship as many think and why it is harder to maintain.

The thing is that I don't like to compromise on one hand and to miss opportunities on the other hand. If there is a person who is great in everything but the sexual part, and another who is great in the sexual part and ok as a close friend, why not being with both if they agree.

I completely agree about investing energy in a relationship like you described. Same goes as for recharging. The better the relationship is the better recharge you get. If you are 100% satisfied in a relationship with one person you simply won't need another one ever, however, it is very rare to get to even 80% satisfaction and recharge in a relationship with one person, that's why people cheat.... If you need another recharge and have 2 relationships that one gives you 70% and the other gives you 25%, you will fill much more energy back.
I know a couple whose relationship is simply going on dates because they enjoy each other's company while eating or watching a movie, but are completely incapable of running a household together. They are dating for years already with occasional sex and it is good for both of them.
There are many types of relationship in a poly relationship and if all the sides agree it could be the best thing ever.

Reply 19

Original post by Kathy89
That's exactly how I feel about Poly relationships and why they are not really an open relationship as many think and why it is harder to maintain.
The thing is that I don't like to compromise on one hand and to miss opportunities on the other hand. If there is a person who is great in everything but the sexual part, and another who is great in the sexual part and ok as a close friend, why not being with both if they agree.
I completely agree about investing energy in a relationship like you described. Same goes as for recharging. The better the relationship is the better recharge you get. If you are 100% satisfied in a relationship with one person you simply won't need another one ever, however, it is very rare to get to even 80% satisfaction and recharge in a relationship with one person, that's why people cheat.... If you need another recharge and have 2 relationships that one gives you 70% and the other gives you 25%, you will fill much more energy back.
I know a couple whose relationship is simply going on dates because they enjoy each other's company while eating or watching a movie, but are completely incapable of running a household together. They are dating for years already with occasional sex and it is good for both of them.
There are many types of relationship in a poly relationship and if all the sides agree it could be the best thing ever.
I can't help but notice some cracks in what you wrote. Please try not to feel attacked. I like to use direct language to get to the point, not necessarily to be confrontational.

1.

"I don't like to compromise on one hand and to miss opportunities on the other hand" - this sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it. All healthy relationships are about compromise. It's something I really struggle with myself, and has taken a lot of damn work to sort out. Inability or unwillingness to compromise is quite a big flag. I'll come back to this point later.

2.

People 'cheat' because they either lack empathy altogether, or are experiencing a temporary dip in their empathy towards their partner (perhaps following an argument) and because they also lack the principles to do what is right regardless of their temperamental mood swings. One of their popular excuses I've sometimes heard is "needs are needs". This ought to tell you a lot about their mindset - they are primarily only interested in having their own needs met, not in meeting the needs of others. Their mindset and priorities are fundamentally selfish, and they often project and assume that everyone else is the same way, which is not true. For instance, their definitely exist people who aren't selfish enough, on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I won't go on, because this is a huge topic otherwise. Just to clarify, I do not consider 'polyamory' as cheating, as I understand it to mean that all participants are aware of the arrangement and consent to it.

3.

Your interpretation of using different people like puzzle pieces to work your way up to 100% "completeness" is not what my original point was, and I'm not sure I agree. It is complicated to explain. It depends a lot on the individual. Introverts 'recharge' in solitude for instance, whereas extroverts 'recharge' around other people. I'm an introvert, so that's the perspective I was taking. I'm not sure I have the energy right now to labour the point. Mainly what I wanted to say, is that what you describe is typical of almost anybody. It's what people have different friends for, for instance. It is perfectly normal, and I don't really see what 'polyamory' has to do with it or why someone would resort to 'polyamory' to accomplish this goal. Most people that are in a stable and happy relationship, have other friends whom they see in their own time, and it is all perfectly platonic and acceptable.

Maybe these things are more complicated than I am willing to spend time understanding. My understanding is that part of the definition of polyamory is having sex with more than 1 other person. It is a non-monogamous relationship. To me, having an intimate monogamous relationship that only meets some of your needs, whilst having other friends whom you see on a regular basis to meet other needs, is still a monogamous relationship. This is what most people do. It's nothing controversial.

1.

You might only meet, say, 60% of each others' needs initially. However, most people change and adapt to their environment, which includes the people around them. They learn to meet each others' needs. This can be a good or a bad thing, in some cases. Surrounding yourself with drug addicts for example, makes you far more likely to become one of them. My point is... people who just get stuck at that 60%, and I will use blunt language, are not 'normal'. Such an inability or reluctance to compromise can be a good or a bad thing (depending what it is), but is unusual. But certainly, in my view, if you are looking for a deep meaningful stable and healthy relationship, it is a problem. People in a healthy relationship ought to develop enough empathy and care towards one another, that they are naturally able to compromise and meet each other's needs. This happens gradually. It will likely never reach 100%, but apparently 80% is normal.

Again, I'm not making those numbers up. Apparently the most stable relationships occur when people disagree about 20% of the time. Usually those disagreements are about some need of theirs not being met. If people disagree too often, then it is too stressful. And if they agree 100% of the time, then either lying to appease the other (which will never last), or the relationship is meaningless and boring. Overcoming challenges is a large part of what brings people together. If you agree 100% of the time, then there aren't really any challenges to overcome. Neither of you is compromising or sacrificing anything. It is kind of meaningless. It's like being in a relationship with a clone of yourself.

(edited 9 months ago)

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