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humanities degree with STEM subjects

hello, im planning to go to university to study history, and since im predicted A's / A*'s ive been looking at higher end universities. getting into a high end university is probably the only way im really going to justify doing a history degree, both to myself and to my parents. the problem with this idea is that my a levels are all STEM subjects. would i be able to prove my enthusiasm for the subject purely with extracurriculars? what extracurriculars would i need to make a convincing case? i know history isnt really one of the more competitive courses, but its looking grim based on what ive been reading.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Original post by diverse-chronolo
hello, im planning to go to university to study history, and since im predicted A's / A*'s ive been looking at higher end universities. getting into a high end university is probably the only way im really going to justify doing a history degree, both to myself and to my parents. the problem with this idea is that my a levels are all STEM subjects (chem, bio and comp sci). would i be able to prove my enthusiasm for the subject purely with extracurriculars? what extracurriculars would i need to make a convincing case? i know history isnt really one of the more competitive courses, but its looking grim based on what ive been reading.

Your problem is the lack of an essay subject, therefore evidence of your ability to write would be a good addition to your application. One obvious avenue is history essay competitions. You also need to provide evidence of your historical reading, not just a list of books but what you have learned from them.

I'd also suggest contacting unis in which you are interested to gauge their response to your potential application.

One note of encouragement... I used to correspond on TSR with a Cambridge admissions tutor. He told me that the best history student he had ever taught came from a STEM background.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Original post by ageshallnot
Your problem is the lack of an essay subject, therefore evidence of your ability to write would be a good addition to your application. One obvious avenue is history essay competitions. You also need to provide evidence of your historical reading, not just a list of books but what you have learned from them.
I'd also suggest contacting unis in which you are interested to gauge their response to your potential application.
One note of encouragement... I used to correspond on TSR with a Cambridge admissions tutor. He told me that the best history student he had ever taught came from a STEM background.

thank you for your reply and excellent ideas. history essay competitions seem interesting, but ive only been able to find two so far that are open to people in yr 13 like me. do you know of any that i could participate in? also, these competitions seem super competitive and i doubt the odds are looking good to win, is merely participating enough or do i need some sort of prize recognition?

as for reading, i own three books and i reckon i could talk at length on all of them (two based on the holodomor, and one on the arab conquest). would three be sufficient, and how would i incorporate them into my personal statement? do i just flat out say that i have a broad range of reading and then mention each book? how would i demonstrate what ive learnt from them with just 4000 words to span all three?

it is interesting and certainly encouraging that people manage to get into Cambridge with stem subjects, maybe i shouldnt rule out oxford so quickly. i am also eligible for a foundation year at oxford, although i dont think i can apply without history as you're required a B in your "most relevant subject". since im taking a gap year anyways, would it make sense to do history in that year to even the odds? or am i just wasting 2 years
Original post by diverse-chronolo
thank you for your reply and excellent ideas. history essay competitions seem interesting, but ive only been able to find two so far that are open to people in yr 13 like me. do you know of any that i could participate in? also, these competitions seem super competitive and i doubt the odds are looking good to win, is merely participating enough or do i need some sort of prize recognition?
as for reading, i own three books and i reckon i could talk at length on all of them (two based on the holodomor, and one on the arab conquest). would three be sufficient, and how would i incorporate them into my personal statement? do i just flat out say that i have a broad range of reading and then mention each book? how would i demonstrate what ive learnt from them with just 4000 words to span all three?
it is interesting and certainly encouraging that people manage to get into Cambridge with stem subjects, maybe i shouldnt rule out oxford so quickly. i am also eligible for a foundation year at oxford, although i dont think i can apply without history as you're required a B in your "most relevant subject". since im taking a gap year anyways, would it make sense to do history in that year to even the odds? or am i just wasting 2 years

I don't know of any specific competitions I'm afraid, but I believe you are correct in thinking that entering those will indicate your enthusiasm and commitment to the subject.

I had to laugh at "I own three books"! 😆 What is the world coming to?!?!? 😆 I own approximately 30 on the origins of the First World War alone!!! Are these books "serious history" by reputable historians? If so, it's what you have learned from them that's important and how you write about that in your PS.

I hadn't realised that you're taking a gap year, which could make a big difference. Are you going to apply this year for 2026 entry, or wait until after your A-levels?

I doubt that the Oxford foundation year is suitable for applying this year. Their words are "Candidates are expected to have their degree subject to A-level", which would appear to rule you out. They also want an example of your written work.
Original post by ageshallnot
I don't know of any specific competitions I'm afraid, but I believe you are correct in thinking that entering those will indicate your enthusiasm and commitment to the subject.
I had to laugh at "I own three books"! 😆 What is the world coming to?!?!? 😆 I own approximately 30 on the origins of the First World War alone!!! Are these books "serious history" by reputable historians? If so, it's what you have learned from them that's important and how you write about that in your PS.
I hadn't realised that you're taking a gap year, which could make a big difference. Are you going to apply this year for 2026 entry, or wait until after your A-levels?
I doubt that the Oxford foundation year is suitable for applying this year. Their words are "Candidates are expected to have their degree subject to A-level", which would appear to rule you out. They also want an example of your written work.

fair enough, three books is pretty poor, but yeah theyre written by reputable historians and are each 500-1000 pages long. i suppose working on that is step one, although 30 books is going to be expensive. i already know what im going to buy though, i just dont have hard covers for them. how would i manage to incorporate 30 books into a personal statement, should i just single out a few per topic?

im going to be waiting until after (so 2026-2027), which means ill be using the new personal statement system and all. i guess that does simplify things since i know everything here is just going to be for the last question about extracurriculars
Original post by diverse-chronolo
fair enough, three books is pretty poor, but yeah theyre written by reputable historians and are each 500-1000 pages long. i suppose working on that is step one, although 30 books is going to be expensive. i already know what im going to buy though, i just dont have hard covers for them. how would i manage to incorporate 30 books into a personal statement, should i just single out a few per topic?
im going to be waiting until after (so 2026-2027), which means ill be using the new personal statement system and all. i guess that does simplify things since i know everything here is just going to be for the last question about extracurriculars

Nooo! That's not what I meant! I'm long past university and I was just commenting that I have 30 books on one particular topic that interests me greatly.

What are the three books? What have you learned from them?

By waiting you have plenty of time to develop your historical senses.

Btw bookfinder.com is very useful for buying books.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Original post by diverse-chronolo
hello, im planning to go to university to study history, and since im predicted A's / A*'s ive been looking at higher end universities. getting into a high end university is probably the only way im really going to justify doing a history degree, both to myself and to my parents. the problem with this idea is that my a levels are all STEM subjects (chem, bio and comp sci). would i be able to prove my enthusiasm for the subject purely with extracurriculars? what extracurriculars would i need to make a convincing case? i know history isnt really one of the more competitive courses, but its looking grim based on what ive been reading.

You have no need to justify studying History to anyone. It is a worthy subject of study in its own right, and a History degree can open a pathway to many careers. You will, however, struggle to obtain a place to read History at a leading university without an A level or equivalent in History.

You should be reading as many history books as you can lay your hands on. Don't worry about hard covers. Buy second hand paperbacks, and join a lending library. There are many books available online, and there are various history magazines. For a scientist's take on history, look at the work of Jared Diamond.

Try the article linked to below, for a glimpse into History at Oxford. If you visit Oxford, maybe go to the Museum of the History of Science next to the Sheldonian Theatre. Perhaps also listen to the broadcast on the Royal Society linked to below.

https://academic.oup.com/past/article/261/1/259/7246025?login=false

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003hyds

As a Wadham historian, I am glad that science was invented at Wadham.*

https://www.wadham.ox.ac.uk/about/founding-the-royal-society

https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/wren-cosmos



*OK, a bit at Cambridge as well!
Original post by Stiffy Byng
You have no need to justify studying History to anyone. It is a worthy subject of study in its own right, and a History degree can open a pathway to many careers. You will, however, struggle to obtain a place to read History at a leading university without an A level or equivalent in History.
You should be reading as many history books as you can lay your hands on. Don't worry about hard covers. Buy second hand paperbacks, and join a lending library. There are many books available online, and there are various history magazines. For a scientist's take on history, look at the work of Jared Diamond.
Try the article linked to below, for a glimpse into History at Oxford. If you visit Oxford, maybe go to the Museum of the History of Science next to the Sheldonian Theatre. Perhaps also listen to the broadcast on the Royal Society linked to below.
https://academic.oup.com/past/article/261/1/259/7246025?login=false
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p003hyds
As a Wadham historian, I am glad that science was invented at Wadham.*
https://www.wadham.ox.ac.uk/about/founding-the-royal-society
https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/wren-cosmos
*OK, a bit at Cambridge as well!

i know i dont *have* to justify it, but it does seem like quite the waste deciding to go somewhere less respected when im doing good enough to go pretty much anywhere if i decided i wanted to do medicine or something else that could land me well in life. not to mention history has poor job prospects within its own field and an unclear career path. as far as my parents are concerned its like the equivalent of me deciding to buy a RV to become a travelling musician. i know employers value the university more than the degree, so i figured managing to get into a high end uni is the only way ill be able to do something i enjoy without cutting my potential short. ive thought about it a bit, and i think the plan for me now is to begin a history a level with CIE (to avoid the NEA as it looks impossible to do privately) and enter during the november exam series, so i can get my results by january and apply to the foundation year. itll give me a solid 5 months after my a levels to focus purely on history, which should be enough if i finish covering AS content by june. does this seem doable? i really dont want to take another gap year, as im only taking this one due to extreme personal circumstances, so i need this by january.
Original post by ageshallnot
Nooo! That's not what I meant! I'm long past university and I was just commenting that I have 30 books on one particular topic that interests me greatly.
What are the three books? What have you learned from them?
By waiting you have plenty of time to develop your historical senses.
Btw bookfinder.com is very used for buying books.

that website is an absolute gem, thank you for sharing it. i managed to buy a few books i read in the past for incredibly cheap, and i definitely feel pretty confident in the amount of reading material ive got now (although im still a good mark away from 30 lol). im also going to visit a few public lectures and events to be able to include them within my statement, and im going to revisit some museums ive been to before. alongside the essay competitions, its looking a lot brighter for me on the extracurriculars front. thanks for your help
Original post by diverse-chronolo
that website is an absolute gem, thank you for sharing it. i managed to buy a few books i read in the past for incredibly cheap, and i definitely feel pretty confident in the amount of reading material ive got now (although im still a good mark away from 30 lol). im also going to visit a few public lectures and events to be able to include them within my statement, and im going to revisit some museums ive been to before. alongside the essay competitions, its looking a lot brighter for me on the extracurriculars front. thanks for your help

No problem. Let us all know how you get on.

Btw coming from a STEM background you might be interested in books such as:

Guns, Germs, Steel by Jared Diamond
Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari
Why the West Rules - For Now, by Ian Morris.

All of them look at history from a very high level.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Original post by diverse-chronolo
i know i dont *have* to justify it, but it does seem like quite the waste deciding to go somewhere less respected when im doing good enough to go pretty much anywhere if i decided i wanted to do medicine or something else that could land me well in life. not to mention history has poor job prospects within its own field and an unclear career path. as far as my parents are concerned its like the equivalent of me deciding to buy a RV to become a travelling musician. i know employers value the university more than the degree, so i figured managing to get into a high end uni is the only way ill be able to do something i enjoy without cutting my potential short. ive thought about it a bit, and i think the plan for me now is to begin a history a level with CIE (to avoid the NEA as it looks impossible to do privately) and enter during the november exam series, so i can get my results by january and apply to the foundation year. itll give me a solid 5 months after my a levels to focus purely on history, which should be enough if i finish covering AS content by june. does this seem doable? i really dont want to take another gap year, as im only taking this one due to extreme personal circumstances, so i need this by january.

The notion that you can't get a good job with a degree in history is incorrect. You could, for example, become a lawyer, a diplomat or other type of civil servant, a journalist, a publisher, a creative or accounts type in advertising, an academic, a teacher, or all sorts of things in general business and management.

The average earnings of STEM graduates and humanities graduates even out over time. The myth that you have to study a STEM subject to do well in life is a myth.

The study of history is in any event a worthy thing in its own right. The humanities are called that for a reason. The humanities make societies civilised. As one leading scientist said, the sciences explain why life is possible, the humanities make life worth living. It would be a sad world in which everyone studied STEM and nothing else.

I'm a parent, and all that I wish for my daughter is that she is happy. I don't care what she studies or what she chooses to do for a living. It's her life, not mine. I hope that your parents will see that your life is your own.
Original post by diverse-chronolo
that website is an absolute gem, thank you for sharing it. i managed to buy a few books i read in the past for incredibly cheap, and i definitely feel pretty confident in the amount of reading material ive got now (although im still a good mark away from 30 lol). im also going to visit a few public lectures and events to be able to include them within my statement, and im going to revisit some museums ive been to before. alongside the essay competitions, its looking a lot brighter for me on the extracurriculars front. thanks for your help

Another academic in whom you might be interested in Peter Turchin (https://peterturchin.com/). He writes on historical issues from a scientific perspective - he calls himself a complexity scientist.
Original post by ageshallnot
No problem. Let us all know how you get on.

Btw coming from a STEM background you might be interested in books such as:

Guns, Germs, Steel by Jared Diamond
Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari
Why the West Rules - For Now, by Ian Morris.

All of them look at history from a very high level.


I would however suggest reading those (particularly the first two) with a critical and reflective perspective - and also look at arguments against the approach of or conclusions drawn by them. They aren't the only approach and could be considered in some areas a bit contentious! I do second at least the first one (have not read the latter two although people keep recommending the Harari one to me) and actually reading into the academic dialogue about it is quite illuminating in itself (and good practice for a budding historian I expect!).

Original post by diverse-chronolo
thank you for your reply and excellent ideas. history essay competitions seem interesting, but ive only been able to find two so far that are open to people in yr 13 like me. do you know of any that i could participate in? also, these competitions seem super competitive and i doubt the odds are looking good to win, is merely participating enough or do i need some sort of prize recognition?

as for reading, i own three books and i reckon i could talk at length on all of them (two based on the holodomor, and one on the arab conquest). would three be sufficient, and how would i incorporate them into my personal statement? do i just flat out say that i have a broad range of reading and then mention each book? how would i demonstrate what ive learnt from them with just 4000 words to span all three?

it is interesting and certainly encouraging that people manage to get into Cambridge with stem subjects, maybe i shouldnt rule out oxford so quickly. i am also eligible for a foundation year at oxford, although i dont think i can apply without history as you're required a B in your "most relevant subject". since im taking a gap year anyways, would it make sense to do history in that year to even the odds? or am i just wasting 2 years


Not all history degrees require A-level History (or even necessarily an essay based subject at A-level) although as noted they are essay based subjects so being able to demonstrate ability to write long form academic prose arguments would be probably useful (also a good way for you to gauge if you enjoy writing about history as much as reading about it!). In terms of books to read definitely explore the offerings at your local library/ies too, you don't need to limit yourself to books you own only (although that can be a good start!) :smile:

Regarding the Oxford foundation year I'd suggest contacting them to ask about whether you can apply for the history track without A-level History. For the main history degree at Oxford A-level History isn't formally required although it's recommended and I suspect most will have taken it (albeit I haven't looked to compare data on those with vs without A-level History to see if one group is on average more successful than the other accounting for the volume of applicants in each category).

One thing to be aware of is Oxford (and I believe Cambridge) require you submit written work anyway for history - normally this is something written in the course of your studies but if you aren't taking essay based subjects I believe they indicate they can accept something written specifically for the purpose. I believe they suggest contacting them if you don't have something from your studies already for the written work to understand the requirements etc. So I'd recommend reaching out to them!

Note the personal statement is not 4000 words - it's 4000 characters. This includes whitespace (spaces and line breaks) and punctuation too! The PS is probably close to about 500 words as a result.
Original post by artful_lounger
I would however suggest reading those (particularly the first two) with a critical and reflective perspective - and also look at arguments against the approach of or conclusions drawn by them. They aren't the only approach and could be considered in some areas a bit contentious! I do second at least the first one (have not read the latter two although people keep recommending the Harari one to me) and actually reading into the academic dialogue about it is quite illuminating in itself (and good practice for a budding historian I expect!).
Not all history degrees require A-level History (or even necessarily an essay based subject at A-level) although as noted they are essay based subjects so being able to demonstrate ability to write long form academic prose arguments would be probably useful (also a good way for you to gauge if you enjoy writing about history as much as reading about it!). In terms of books to read definitely explore the offerings at your local library/ies too, you don't need to limit yourself to books you own only (although that can be a good start!) :smile:
Regarding the Oxford foundation year I'd suggest contacting them to ask about whether you can apply for the history track without A-level History. For the main history degree at Oxford A-level History isn't formally required although it's recommended and I suspect most will have taken it (albeit I haven't looked to compare data on those with vs without A-level History to see if one group is on average more successful than the other accounting for the volume of applicants in each category).
One thing to be aware of is Oxford (and I believe Cambridge) require you submit written work anyway for history - normally this is something written in the course of your studies but if you aren't taking essay based subjects I believe they indicate they can accept something written specifically for the purpose. I believe they suggest contacting them if you don't have something from your studies already for the written work to understand the requirements etc. So I'd recommend reaching out to them!
Note the personal statement is not 4000 words - it's 4000 characters. This includes whitespace (spaces and line breaks) and punctuation too! The PS is probably close to about 500 words as a result.

I think that Guns, Germs, and Steel is a masterpiece. It is the best antidote to racism I have ever encountered, because it explains so carefully why different societies have developed at different rates (this being nothing to do with innate qualities of different ethnic or national groups). I think that the book's main weakness might be an insufficient explanation of why China was so far behind Britain, France, and the US by the mid nineteeth century, having been so far ahead of Europe a thousand years previously.

Sapiens is, I think, over-rated. Much of it is a less scholarly rehash of Guns, Germs, and Steel. It is also faintly Whiggish, in a way that Diamond's work is not. Diamond has written separately about civilisational collapse, and he does not assume that the forward march of progress is inevitable, but Harari, whilst not being as Whiggish as, say, Macaulay or E H Carr, is sometimes what you might call Neo-Whiggish. He is less sceptical about Globalism than many contemporary commentators on economics and politics.

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