SQE then LLM?

OP

Original post by 17Student17

Yo uneed to realise there are two completely different kind of law masters in the UK. There is one typically taken with the PDGL/law concersion and/or with the SQE course simply in order to obtain an English student SFE post grad masters loan and separately from that are academic masters (which rarely are needed or helpful for a legal career but could be useful if you want to become a law lecturer as your career). Also if you would need a masters loan for the masters course but already used up your only masters loan on an SQE with masters course that is a factor.

Thank you that’s really helpful. My plan right now was to apply for a solicitor apprenticeship at one of the magic or silver circle firms(which fully fund an LLB + SQE) and then once I gain those qualifications to do a masters at a top uni (Oxbridge or UCL) is that reasonable or not really worth the time

Reply 4

I think that learning is never unreasonable and always worth the time. Learning is its own reward. As indicated above, obtaining an LLM (or BCL) is unlikely to make much or any difference to a career in law firms if that is the career you wish to follow.

I assume that a firm which funds training via the apprentice route would contract with the apprentice that he or she must pay to the firm some part of the cost of training if he or she leaves within a specified time after qualifying. Such a firm might not wish a newly qualified person to spend an academic year away from the firm (even if on unpaid leave) studying for an LLM.

Reply 5

OP

Original post by Stiffy Byng

I think that learning is never unreasonable and always worth the time. Learning is its own reward. As indicated above, obtaining an LLM (or BCL) is unlikely to make much or any difference to a career in law firms if that is the career you wish to follow.
I assume that a firm which funds training via the apprentice route would contract with the apprentice that he or she must pay to the firm some part of the cost of training if he or she leaves within a specified time after qualifying. Such a firm might not wish a newly qualified person to spend an academic year away from the firm (even if on unpaid leave) studying for an LLM.

I’ll definitely have to enquire about that. I want to do the LLM or equivalent as I’d still like to experience studying at a uni but I just don’t like the idea of getting into lots of debt. I’ve also always liked the idea of doing a masters qualification and I’m sure that doing one couldn’t harm my career prospects.

Reply 6

AMac86

11

Unless it's changed much in recent years it was only a minority of firms that included clawback provisions on training course fees and these tended to be if you applied for and were successful in applying for a job on qualification/left shortly after starting the NQ job.

So in that sense there's probably nothing preventing quitting your job on qualification to study an LLM but I wouldn't recommend it for a couple of reasons:

•

After a couple of years earning a decent salary as a city trainee/apprentice you'd need to be comfortable giving up that high NQ salary to live as a student again on your savings (post course fees etc...) for a year;

•

an LLM doesn't give you any advantage in a career as a solicitor. It's only useful from a career perspective if you want to move into academia (Of course as SB has said there's nothing wrong with learning for its own sake, but an LLM is very much learning for its own sake, not career development); and

•

Landing an NQ job and gaining qualified experience in your chosen specialism is really important, it will be much easier finding the NQ role you want straight after qualification, rather than a year later when that year has been spent out of the workplace & market. In this sense taking the LLM is probably a small hinderance to early career development & progress.

Reply 7

Original post by AMac86

Unless it's changed much in recent years it was only a minority of firms that included clawback provisions on training course fees and these tended to be if you applied for and were successful in applying for a job on qualification/left shortly after starting the NQ job.
So in that sense there's probably nothing preventing quitting your job on qualification to study an LLM but I wouldn't recommend it for a couple of reasons:

•

After a couple of years earning a decent salary as a city trainee/apprentice you'd need to be comfortable giving up that high NQ salary to live as a student again on your savings (post course fees etc...) for a year;

•

an LLM doesn't give you any advantage in a career as a solicitor. It's only useful from a career perspective if you want to move into academia (Of course as SB has said there's nothing wrong with learning for its own sake, but an LLM is very much learning for its own sake, not career development); and

•

Landing an NQ job and gaining qualified experience in your chosen specialism is really important, it will be much easier finding the NQ role you want straight after qualification, rather than a year later when that year has been spent out of the workplace & market. In this sense taking the LLM is probably a small hinderance to early career development & progress.

The clawback position might be different if a firm has funded the entirety of a newly qualified solicitor's training through the apprentice route.

Reply 8

Original post by 15H

I’ll definitely have to enquire about that. I want to do the LLM or equivalent as I’d still like to experience studying at a uni but I just don’t like the idea of getting into lots of debt. I’ve also always liked the idea of doing a masters qualification and I’m sure that doing one couldn’t harm my career prospects.

Student loan repayments are in effect a form of enhanced taxation on successful graduates. If you make it in commercial law, your earnings will take care of the loan payments easily.

For completeness, I add that an LLM or BCL is a relevant qualification to those seeking to practise at the top end of the Bar. That is because practising in commercial, chancery, and public law chambers involves a lot of legal learning.

Reply 9

AMac86

11

It could be, the offset would be the firms gain 5ish years of work output from the apprentice during the process, compared to 2 years work output under a traditional TC. I think this is only likely to be an issue if an NQ job is applied for & accepted, and then backed out of very quickly (and even then I think risk is limited to a couple of very hard nosed regional firms who came under a lot of grief when they looked to enforce this). I don't think it's a barrier to moving or leaving on qualification (which plenty of NQs do)

Reply 10

OP

Original post by Stiffy Byng

Student loan repayments are in effect a form of enhanced taxation on successful graduates. If you make it in commercial law, your earnings will take care of the loan payments easily.
For completeness, I add that an LLM or BCL is a relevant qualification to those seeking to practise at the top end of the Bar. That is because practising in commercial, chancery, and public law chambers involves a lot of legal learning.

I’m confused now because people have said an LLM/BCL isn’t worth it but in your second paragraph you say it is?

Reply 11

Original post by 15H

I’m confused now because people have said an LLM/BCL isn’t worth it but in your second paragraph you say it is?

I have never said that an LLM or BCL isn't "worth it". I have said that such a degree would make little or no difference to a career in law firms. I have also said that such a degree is relevant to a career at the top end of the Bar.

Reply 12

OP