I want to pursue law but I hate volunteering at Citizens Advice
I'm doing everything I can to pursue a career in law after spending a few years working different minimum wage jobs with no real purpose. I first did some level 2 courses including counselling and then a level 3 in counselling before deciding on a law degree. I get the highest grades in my class and finding the academic side a breeze. I knew I'd need some relevant work experience and I couldn't get anything paid so I volunteer at Citizens Advice as well as working a paid part time job and studying full time. This situation in and of itself is exhausting even if I did enjoy it. The problem is I actually hate volunteering at Citizens Advice. There's little to no support. The training documents keep saying "ask your trainer how X works at your centre" but I don't have a trainer and no one has a free second. I frequently leave burnt out between my mix of crying, angry or hard to understand clients. I can't say much about this obviously but my case load can also be quite emotive. In some cases I've been told by my supervisor that I have to deliver exceptionally bad news to clients when I'm A. New and B. unpaid. It's really not fun having to tell someone they're screwed. I was pressured to do things before I was ready and the atmosphere in there is always hectic. I feel out of my depth and incompetent at doing the work. I feel anxious every time I'm in the interview room, still, 2/3 months in. The initial training is over 100 hours long self paced, I'm still under half way through and if I try to get it done during volunteer hours because there's enough staff anyway they whine at me about it. I have a lot to fit in my schedule so I want to get through the training whilst I'm there. Even when there's no rooms available for me to see clients, or no clients waiting so I log on to chip away at it people whine at me and I have to explain myself. It's the paid staff that usually whine to top it off. And they often treat me like an assistant even though I'm busy too. I've been telling myself I'll find my feet eventually but it's actually affecting my confidence and I'm coming home feeling crappy and berating myself thinking I'm never going to be a decent lawyer. I don't know to what extent I'm useless Vs it's Citizens Advice's fault. I can say my centre has a very high volunteer turnover, very few stay and it's always recruiting. Although many volunteers won't be as invested as a law student I suppose. Maybe I should try a different centre? I don't know how long to keep at this before I give up. Outside perspectives welcome.
I think this is more of an issue with the CAB you are volunteering at rather than indicative of anything to do with a career in law...?
Reply 2
Original post
by artful_loungerI think this is more of an issue with the CAB you are volunteering at rather than indicative of anything to do with a career in law...?
Thank you for saying that. I'm too often worrying that my anxiety in the interview room is because I'm not good enough
Reply 3
This is actually a toxic work environment. I would highly recommend you do some reading about this. This actually is not normal. you can actually lodge a complaint, especially as you are not being paid. @Crazy Jamie I believe this is your field 😭😂
Reply 4
Original post
by LegallytangledThank you for saying that. I'm too often worrying that my anxiety in the interview room is because I'm not good enough
Please read about toxic work environments , how you are describing this is exactly my esperiemwce many years ago when I didn’t know this was a thing.
This is an example of an article about the topic, please read into it :
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinecastrillon/2023/06/04/10-signs-its-time-to-leave-a-toxic-workplace/
Reply 5
Original post
by Butterflywings24This is actually a toxic work environment. I would highly recommend you do some reading about this. This actually is not normal. you can actually lodge a complaint, especially as you are not being paid. @Crazy Jamie I believe this is your field 😭😂
It's not a supportive work environment. I don't want to come out and call it toxic but I have heard things from one member of paid staff who said they had dropped from full time to part time hours specifically to avoid a manager who bullied them. I don't volunteer on the days when this manager is in though.
Reply 6
Original post
by LegallytangledIt's not a supportive work environment. I don't want to come out and call it toxic but I have heard things from one member of paid staff who said they had dropped from full time to part time hours specifically to avoid a manager who bullied them. I don't volunteer on the days when this manager is in though.
Actually on that list of 10 signs of a toxic workplace more than half apply. Eek.
Reply 7
Original post
by LegallytangledIt's not a supportive work environment. I don't want to come out and call it toxic but I have heard things from one member of paid staff who said they had dropped from full time to part time hours specifically to avoid a manager who bullied them. I don't volunteer on the days when this manager is in though.
You don’t have to but you can choose to work in a different branch or volunteer for another organisation. Trust me, this isnt worth the toll it will take on your confidence and mental health. It is already starting to affect you and that can stay with you years after you’ve stopped volunteering. I personally wouldn’t continue volunteering there. I learned this the hard way
(edited 1 year ago)
Reply 8
Original post
by LegallytangledActually on that list of 10 signs of a toxic workplace more than half apply. Eek.
At least now you know that you’re not going crazy or it’s nothing to do with you. You are just in an environment where you are not given adequate training and support, poor management and even high staff turnoff. The fact people are leaving is very telling that this is definitely a THEM problem. I would really consider making a formal complaint if you are comfortable, minimise the hours you are doing or volunteer elsewhere . This will impact all areas of your life including even your sleep and outside relationships
Reply 9
I wouldn't worry about whether it meets the definition of a toxic work environment or not, nor would I be looking to file a grievance or similar. You've been there a very short time. The only issue is whether it's a working environment that you settle into and find your feet in. If the answer is that it is not, you should move on, probably to a new office in the first instance. I certainly agree with Artful Dodger that this strikes me as being more of a CAB issue than an issue with how suited you are to a career in law.
Reply 10
Original post
by Crazy JamieI wouldn't worry about whether it meets the definition of a toxic work environment or not, nor would I be looking to file a grievance or similar. You've been there a very short time. The only issue is whether it's a working environment that you settle into and find your feet in. If the answer is that it is not, you should move on, probably to a new office in the first instance. I certainly agree with Artful Dodger that this strikes me as being more of a CAB issue than an issue with how suited you are to a career in law.
The toxic work environment is probably helpful for personal mental health reasons in terms of making sense of it all and assisting with not ending up in a similar situation. It can be validating for some people to read that. At least for me.
Reply 11
Original post
by Butterflywings24The toxic work environment is probably helpful for personal mental health reasons in terms of making sense of it all and assisting with not ending up in a similar situation. It can be validating for some people to read that. At least for me.
Sure, but there is no formal definition of a toxic work environment. It's just a label. The issue is whether the overarching problem is to do with the work environment, or whether it is the OP that is unsuited to this type of work. The immediate consensus in this thread is that the issue is with the work environment and not the OP. Irrespective of labels, that would seem to be the salient point.
Reply 12
Original post
by Crazy JamieI wouldn't worry about whether it meets the definition of a toxic work environment or not, nor would I be looking to file a grievance or similar. You've been there a very short time. The only issue is whether it's a working environment that you settle into and find your feet in. If the answer is that it is not, you should move on, probably to a new office in the first instance. I certainly agree with Artful Dodger that this strikes me as being more of a CAB issue than an issue with how suited you are to a career in law.
I'll message some other local offices and law centres and see if I can transfer. I'm still not too sure how long to give it if not. Having it on my CV will help a lot but my mental health would probably better without it and I'd have more time for myself.
Reply 13
Original post
by Butterflywings24The toxic work environment is probably helpful for personal mental health reasons in terms of making sense of it all and assisting with not ending up in a similar situation. It can be validating for some people to read that. At least for me.
It helped me to identify it. I assumed toxic work environment was just bullying and I haven't been bullied but no I related to a lot in that article which was eye opening. Maybe I should continue volunteering just elsewhere. I'm going to see if other CABs are looking for volunteers and might send letters to local solicitors too
Reply 14
Original post
by LegallytangledIt helped me to identify it. I assumed toxic work environment was just bullying and I haven't been bullied but no I related to a lot in that article which was eye opening. Maybe I should continue volunteering just elsewhere. I'm going to see if other CABs are looking for volunteers and might send letters to local solicitors too
That sounds like a good idea, you suffered through it for a long as you could. You can probably still put it on your CV too. But there’s really are just better places to volunteer at that aren’t as hectic and chaotic and definitely different branches. Sometimes it could just be that particular branch. Even being an intern would be better. Explore your options and seek support and also read about what a healthy work environment should like like
https://employmenthero.com/uk/blog/healthy-workplace-environment/
Plus also remember there is no perfect work environment but definitely better than what you experienced. Hope things get better ❤️*🩹
Reply 15
OP, the key point is that you are a volunteer, and you can cease volunteering. You appear to have experienced an instance of a sector which is in crisis after years of underfunding of public resources. CABs and other agencies struggle to deal with an array of societal problems which have been exacerbated by the withdrawal of State provision in many contexts.
Universities are aware that it is difficult for applicants to obtain relevant work experience, and therefore they don't regard such experience as essential when considering applications for places. In any event, you can now truthfully say that you have volunteered at a CAB.
I agree with Crazy Jamie, who is an experienced barrister, that labels such as "toxic working environment" are not helpful. Working through internet checklists to find a match to your situation is also, I suggest, unhelpful. Your particular experience is your own, and when taking advice it's best to listen to an objective adviser such as Crazy Jamie rather than someone without comparable experience, who might be transposing their own perceptions of grievance onto your position.
I suggest that you cease volunteering at the CAB. If you wish to volunteer at another agency, do so. Or focus on your studies for the time being. Making complaints would simply add to the pressures already faced by people working under considerable stress, and to little or no good purpose.
Universities are aware that it is difficult for applicants to obtain relevant work experience, and therefore they don't regard such experience as essential when considering applications for places. In any event, you can now truthfully say that you have volunteered at a CAB.
I agree with Crazy Jamie, who is an experienced barrister, that labels such as "toxic working environment" are not helpful. Working through internet checklists to find a match to your situation is also, I suggest, unhelpful. Your particular experience is your own, and when taking advice it's best to listen to an objective adviser such as Crazy Jamie rather than someone without comparable experience, who might be transposing their own perceptions of grievance onto your position.
I suggest that you cease volunteering at the CAB. If you wish to volunteer at another agency, do so. Or focus on your studies for the time being. Making complaints would simply add to the pressures already faced by people working under considerable stress, and to little or no good purpose.
Reply 16
If you do want to do volunteering, I would suggest finding a law centre specifically; they won't throw you into the deep end as much, and they aren't the same sort of one-stop shop as the CAB.
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