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I kissed her on the 4th date and she said we're moving too fast

I've been dating a girl who on the whole seems nice, stable and calm. I kissed her on the 4th date and she reciprocated aggressively, damn near biting my face off. The next day she messages saying that we are moving too fast.

I don't find it weird that we kissed on the 4th date and if anything i should have done it sooner. She also said that she's been single for almost 8 years (we're both in our late 20s) I'm not sure if this is true but it could be.

Is she losing interest in me or do people really take things slow? All our dates have been fun so far and we've held hands.

Thanks

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Reply 1
Original post by Anonymous
I've been dating a girl who on the whole seems nice, stable and calm. I kissed her on the 4th date and she reciprocated aggressively, damn near biting my face off. The next day she messages saying that we are moving too fast.
I don't find it weird that we kissed on the 4th date and if anything i should have done it sooner. She also said that she's been single for almost 8 years (we're both in our late 20s) I'm not sure if this is true but it could be.
Is she losing interest in me or do people really take things slow? All our dates have been fun so far and we've held hands.
Thanks

lowkey, I think ur moving at a fine speed but honestly ppl just like being hella slow with it sometimes and its annoying if ur ready to move faster. What id do is apologise for being pushy even if u weren't and just communicate and sort it out, but if u don't particularly want to move that slow u can just tell her honestly with manners which isn't too ideal because if u look at her point of view you're leaving her cuz she didn't kiss you (partly). But yeah sounds like she likes u bro keep going.👍️







Why are you doubting her being single for 8 years? It could well be the case if she's been more focused on her career, travel etc.

For some people a 4th date is after a couple of weeks, for some it's more, depending on circumstances; how long have you been dating? And how well do you actually know each other? It's easy to get caught up in the moment and feel differently about it in the cold light of day. Early days yet, so respect her decision and keep talking about where this is going. Yes, people do take it slow.
Reply 3
Original post by mr.cooked
lowkey, I think ur moving at a fine speed but honestly ppl just like being hella slow with it sometimes and its annoying if ur ready to move faster. What id do is apologise for being pushy even if u weren't and just communicate and sort it out, but if u don't particularly want to move that slow u can just tell her honestly with manners which isn't too ideal because if u look at her point of view you're leaving her cuz she didn't kiss you (partly). But yeah sounds like she likes u bro keep going.👍️




Ok so i did all that (apologised and said to take it slow). I saw her again a week later when she invited me to her place for dinner. We had dinner, watched a documentary and then she dumped me afterwards saying that she didn't feel the chemistry after those weeks of dating and that she didn't want to lead me on. I feel like she was just leading me on and using me for attention. She did write a few paragraphs explaining why so that's nice that she didn't just ghost me.
It sounds like you didn't do enough to ramp up her attraction for you.
Most likely because you didn't speak and behave in ways that were attractive enough to her.
Teasing, flirting, having fun, being joyful, positive, enthusiastic, displaying mental and emotional strength.

For example, you could have come over as more attractive when you apologised and said to take it slow.
It would have been more attractive if you'd disagreed with her in an amused tone of voice. And said that you prefer women that are decisive, that don't play the "let's take it slow" card. As in the past your type of woman has been bold enough to co-operate / be comfortable with the sexual side of things by the 4th date. And that you're starting to wonder if you should friendzone her as a result.
By telling her that you would have come across as honest and mentally and emotionally strong and selective by being prepared to relegate her to being a friend in your social circle.
By apologising and agreeing with her frame you came across as weak and possibly unauthentic.

Another possible tactic you could have used, would have been to tell her straight away - in a gentle / amused / we're enjoying each other's company / mock serious but not serious / I like you tone of voice - after she nearly bit your face off that she was moving too fast and you'd prefer to slow things down (enjoy the process of getting to know each other). In that way it wouldn't have been her coming to you saying that you're moving too fast. Because you'd have already said it.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
It sounds like you didn't do enough to ramp up her attraction for you.
Most likely because you didn't speak and behave in ways that were attractive enough to her.
Teasing, flirting, having fun, being joyful, positive, enthusiastic, displaying mental and emotional strength.
For example, you could have come over as more attractive when you apologised and said to take it slow.
It would have been more attractive if you'd disagreed with her in an amused tone of voice. And said that you prefer women that are decisive, that don't play the "let's take it slow" card. As in the past your type of woman has been bold enough to co-operate / be comfortable with the sexual side of things by the 4th date. And that you're starting to wonder if you should friendzone her as a result.
By telling her that you would have come across as honest and mentally and emotionally strong and selective by being prepared to relegate her to being a friend in your social circle.
By apologising and agreeing with her frame you came across as weak and possibly unauthentic.
Another possible tactic you could have used, would have been to tell her straight away - in a gentle / amused / we're enjoying each other's company / mock serious but not serious / I like you tone of voice - after she nearly bit your face off that she was moving too fast and you'd prefer to slow things down (enjoy the process of getting to know each other). In that way it wouldn't have been her coming to you saying that you're moving too fast. Because you'd have already said it.

Female here. The first approach just makes you come across as thirsty and is a massive turn off - I would have no interest in dating a man who wants to pressure me into being intimate with him when I'm not ready...
There are some women that prefer to assert their frame and have their boyfriends fall into their frame, even though the boyfriend didn't initially agree. With the women being like this when it comes to both minor and major matters.
My dad's 3rd wife was one of them.

However, the advice from leading dating coaches is that - especially during the early stages of a relationship - when the woman says or does something that you agree with, you agree with her. When she says or does something that's important to you that you disagree with, you disagree with her - in a polite and charming and assertive way. And then it's up to her whether she falls into your frame on that matter or maintains her frame. Either way is fine. No 2 people on agree on everything.

It's a "typical nice guy" mistake to agree with something that your date says when it's important to you and you don't agree.

Women aren't stupid. They can sense and pick up on this insincerity.
Socially calibrated assertiveness is an attractive trait.
The message that it sends when a man agrees with everything she says is that he's like this with everybody: work, restaurant staff that serve soup with a fly in it etc etc.

I agree with the original poster. No kisses on dates 1, 2 and 3 is taking things too slow. Any woman that regards kissing on date 4 as taking things too fast is someone that I can't agree with. And someone that the original poster can't agree with.

What is actually thirstier? A guy that apologises and falls into the woman's frame - and pretends that he agrees with her.
Or a guy that politely and assertively disagrees with her frame. With the guy saying that he's thinking of friendzoning her. IE he's thinking that he'd be happy to have her as a platonic friend, with the unspoken message that he's having doubts about them becoming lovers.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
There are some women that prefer to assert their frame and have their boyfriends fall into their frame, even though the boyfriend didn't initially agree. With the women being like this when it comes to both minor and major matters.
My dad's 3rd wife was one of them.
However, the advice from leading dating coaches is that - especially during the early stages of a relationship - when the woman says or does something that you agree with, you agree with her. When she says or does something that's important to you that you disagree with, you disagree with her - in a polite and charming and assertive way. And then it's up to her whether she falls into your frame on that matter or maintains her frame. Either way is fine. No 2 people on agree on everything.
It's a "typical nice guy" mistake to agree with something that your date says when it's important to you and you don't agree.
Women aren't stupid. They can sense and pick up on this insincerity.
Socially calibrated assertiveness is an attractive trait.
The message that it sends when a man agrees with everything she says is that he's like this with everybody: work, restaurant staff that serve soup with a fly in it etc etc.
I agree with the original poster. No kisses on dates 1, 2 and 3 is taking things too slow. Any woman that regards kissing on date 4 as taking things too fast is someone that I can't agree with. And someone that the original poster can't agree with.
What is actually thirstier? A guy that apologises and falls into the woman's frame - and pretends that he agrees with her.
Or a guy that politely and assertively disagrees with her frame. With the guy saying that he's thinking of friendzoning her. IE he's thinking that he'd be happy to have her as a platonic friend, with the unspoken message that he's having doubts about them becoming lovers.

Respecting boundaries is not the same as pretending.
Original post by Anonymous
Respecting boundaries is not the same as pretending.

Indeed, they aren't the same.

The original poster respected her boundaries and pretended to fall into her frame.
It would have been better, as I explained above, if he'd respected her boundaries and NOT pretended to fall into her frame.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
Indeed, they aren't the same.
The original poster respected her boundaries and pretended to fall into her frame.
It would have been better, as I explained above, if he'd respected her boundaries and NOT pretended to fall into her frame.

Relationships come with compromises. If someone is truly interested in pursuing a relationship with a particular person, respecting their boundaries is a compromise that needs to be made - threatening to friend zone them is not the way to gain trust and build a relationship. If they are not truly interested, I agree with you.
Original post by Anonymous
Relationships come with compromises. If someone is truly interested in pursuing a relationship with a particular person, respecting their boundaries is a compromise that needs to be made - threatening to friend zone them is not the way to gain trust and build a relationship. If they are not truly interested, I agree with you.

Disqualifying is attractive, especially in the context of the first 5 dates.
In a way, I wish that wasn't the case. But people are people. And when you're interacting with someone you've just started dating it makes more sense to speak and behave in attractive ways.

It's not attractive to come out with a stream of disqualifications. As that would be too negative and too annoying. It's more a case of throwing in disqualifications naturally as they come up. With this sometimes including throwing in disqualifications as a kidding teasing type joke. EG "You like Ariana Grande?! That's it! We're getting divorced!"

It doesn't build trust to pretend to agree with someone's frame.
It builds more trust to tell your date that you disagree with them.
It builds more trust to tell the other person about your reservations, in an open and honest and upfront and socially calibrated way.

So, yes, telling his date that he was thinking of friendzoning her, because of her nonsense (from his perspective) about taking things too fast would have built more trust. And it's the sort of thing that he wouldn't tell her in a deadpan, logical, serious kind of way. He'd tell her in a joking, mucking about, keeping things light, having fun, enjoying the moment kind of way. With, in this case, there being an element of a serious expression of his viewpoint under the humour. "Threats" are so much softer and kinder when they're done in a teasing, light hearted way.
Unlucky OP.

While there's always a chance that a woman in her twenties taking it slow is an indication of virtue, I suspect you've seen first hand that there are plenty of fickle women too.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
Disqualifying is attractive, especially in the context of the first 5 dates.
In a way, I wish that wasn't the case. But people are people. And when you're interacting with someone you've just started dating it makes more sense to speak and behave in attractive ways.
It's not attractive to come out with a stream of disqualifications. As that would be too negative and too annoying. It's more a case of throwing in disqualifications naturally as they come up. With this sometimes including throwing in disqualifications as a kidding teasing type joke. EG "You like Ariana Grande?! That's it! We're getting divorced!"
It doesn't build trust to pretend to agree with someone's frame.
It builds more trust to tell your date that you disagree with them.
It builds more trust to tell the other person about your reservations, in an open and honest and upfront and socially calibrated way.
So, yes, telling his date that he was thinking of friendzoning her, because of her nonsense (from his perspective) about taking things too fast would have built more trust. And it's the sort of thing that he wouldn't tell her in a deadpan, logical, serious kind of way. He'd tell her in a joking, mucking about, keeping things light, having fun, enjoying the moment kind of way. With, in this case, there being an element of a serious expression of his viewpoint under the humour. "Threats" are so much softer and kinder when they're done in a teasing, light hearted way.

Have you ever actually been in a relationship?
Original post by Anonymous
Have you ever actually been in a relationship?

Yes.
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
There are some women that prefer to assert their frame and have their boyfriends fall into their frame, even though the boyfriend didn't initially agree. With the women being like this when it comes to both minor and major matters.
My dad's 3rd wife was one of them.
However, the advice from leading dating coaches is that - especially during the early stages of a relationship - when the woman says or does something that you agree with, you agree with her. When she says or does something that's important to you that you disagree with, you disagree with her - in a polite and charming and assertive way. And then it's up to her whether she falls into your frame on that matter or maintains her frame. Either way is fine. No 2 people on agree on everything.
It's a "typical nice guy" mistake to agree with something that your date says when it's important to you and you don't agree.
Women aren't stupid. They can sense and pick up on this insincerity.
Socially calibrated assertiveness is an attractive trait.
The message that it sends when a man agrees with everything she says is that he's like this with everybody: work, restaurant staff that serve soup with a fly in it etc etc.
I agree with the original poster. No kisses on dates 1, 2 and 3 is taking things too slow. Any woman that regards kissing on date 4 as taking things too fast is someone that I can't agree with. And someone that the original poster can't agree with.
What is actually thirstier? A guy that apologises and falls into the woman's frame - and pretends that he agrees with her.
Or a guy that politely and assertively disagrees with her frame. With the guy saying that he's thinking of friendzoning her. IE he's thinking that he'd be happy to have her as a platonic friend, with the unspoken message that he's having doubts about them becoming lovers.

Thanks for replying. I can see where you're coming from about disagreeing and then playfully teasing her. Tbh she was a bit cold when we were dating and wasn't that physically affectionate. She invited me over to hers for dinner, we watched a movie afterwards and then we kissed. I tried initiating sex but she resisted so i didn't push any further and just kissed her for a while.
I left her house and then a few days later is when she dumped me saying that there wasn't any chemistry from her side and that she did not want to lead me on. I feel like i have been used. She also mentioned she'd been single for a while which should've been a red flag now that i look back on it.
Her saying there was a lack of chemistry reinforces what I said in the first paragraph in Reply 4, 3 days ago.

A few tweaks to the inner you, and as a result how you behave during early dates will give you a significantly higher chance of the next women you date feeling that the chemistry is there.

My take is that it's generally fine for women to use the men that they date. If she used you to boost her ego and confidence, then surely that's totally fine from your point of view? And you should feel glad if you helped her with this?
Original post by Dunnig Kruger
Her saying there was a lack of chemistry reinforces what I said in the first paragraph in Reply 4, 3 days ago.
A few tweaks to the inner you, and as a result how you behave during early dates will give you a significantly higher chance of the next women you date feeling that the chemistry is there.
My take is that it's generally fine for women to use the men that they date. If she used you to boost her ego and confidence, then surely that's totally fine from your point of view? And you should feel glad if you helped her with this?

Ok well i got physical quite early on with her; there was plenty of hand holding and hugging. Maybe it would have made a difference if i kissed her earlier on in the dating process perhaps?

And no its not fine for women to use men as an ego boost. I am upset that she led me on. I am not glad to have helped boost her ego.

In the break up text she said that i didn't take her request to take things slow into consideration so maybe she just wasn't attracted to me at all. After i left her house after we were kissing, she seemed a little annoyed.
My philosophy is that I prefer spreading joy and happiness in the world. And that I prefer to leave every woman that I've dated in a better place for having spent time with me. If that means that her ego and self confidence have been boosted even though we never really got it on, then that's fine by me.

Women can be very perceptive on these things.
And this may be a part of the building chemistry equation.

I think it's an oversimplification to say she led you on. There's a reasonable chance that if you'd behaved in more attractive ways - according to the advice of leading dating coaches - that she'd have become your full girlfriend.

There's a reasonable chance that some other guy will come along in the near future and form a sexual relationship with her. Even though he may not be as good a guy as you overall. The difference being the flirting / teasing / having fun / pushing the right emotional buttons.

One big consolation in all this is that you've shown you can get a woman to date you. And there are loads of other women you can break the ice with and interact with. And you have an analytical mind and an interest in finding out what you can do to get better at the dating game. All of which adds up to you having a great future, romance wise.
The fact that she invited you round (a clear sex signal) but was annoyed after your visit probably suggests that you could have escalated but went the wrong way about it. That may have been the time she wanted a greater commitment signal from you.

I generally agree that validating a woman your not sleeping with these days is not a good thing given the attention most women garner online and the inflated standards that are abound.
Original post by Rakas21
The fact that she invited you round (a clear sex signal) but was annoyed after your visit probably suggests that you could have escalated but went the wrong way about it. That may have been the time she wanted a greater commitment signal from you.
I generally agree that validating a woman your not sleeping with these days is not a good thing given the attention most women garner online and the inflated standards that are abound.

Interesting. I kissed her, grabbed her breasts and she removed my hand and so i stopped that. I continued kissing her and she was happy with that. What other signal could i have given? How else could i have escalated it?

She said she wanted to take things slow so i followed her lead. I obviously was not going to rape her. And even after i first kissed her, she virtually bit my face off and then messaged saying that we were taking things too fast.

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