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path from uk student to US lawyer

I am currently a very strong student studying GCSES, and think I would like to become a lawyer in the future, but want to work in the US because I like the attitude and the money 😂
also, Im not sure i want to specialise too early since i might enjoy investment banking too.
what paths can I take, and which are the best, to get to a really top firm, bearing in mind that I would really love to go to an ivy league or top us school at some point?
these are the paths i know of so far
oxford PPE -> US law school + bar -> top firm
oxford law -> US conversion course + bar -> medium firm
ivy league undergrad -> law school + bar

also, what do i need to start doing now to definitely get into at least one of my goal schools?

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praying? all your choices are so ambitious that you not only need top grades and excellent test scores, but also an immense amount of luck... I'd recommend you to settle for applying to UK unis for law (try Oxford if you'll have the chance to, but think some safeties too), if that's what you'd enjoy studying. When you're in your final years od undegrad you can start thinking about how to proceed. US college would be a waste of resources.
As for attitude and money, it may be worth mentioning that Suits is a work of fiction.

Obtaining permission to work in the US if you are not a US citizen is not always easy. The US has no shortage of lawyers. The fees at US universities are high, and entry to law schools is competitive, especially Ivy League law schools.

There is no US conversion course. In the US, law is a three year postgraduate degree. A lawyer qualified in the UK can take the Bar exams in most US States. In the UK, there are various routes to legal qualifications, via a law degree, a degree in any other subject, and no degree.
Reply 3
if you just do a uk law degree can you still go to a really top firm?
Original post by lililm
if you just do a uk law degree can you still go to a really top firm?

A UK law degree does not by itself qualify its holder to practise law in the UK or in the US.

The holder of a law degree (or non law degree) from a UK university has to take further steps to qualify as a solicitor or barrister (advocate in Scotland) if he or she wishes to practise law in one or more of the countries of the UK.

A UK law graduate can take the New York State Bar exam, subject to satisfying the NY Bar's Examination Board as to the duration and substance of the degree. If that graduate passes the NY Bar and can obtain a job offer and permission to live and work in the US, that graduate could work for a law firm in the US. International law firms also employ lawyers qualified in the UK in their US offices.
First of all, I genuinely commend you for your ambition (not many people in this country would appreciate it 🙂 ).
I just so happen to think about this question quite a bit (not into Law but Investment Banking, Finance etc).
There seems to be a lot of information out there addressing this sort of question in more detail but for my own two cents.

I would take UK undergrad (Oxbridge Law is a great option since it gives a BA that is apparently equivalent to an LLB).
Apply to law school in the USA direct with a 1st class degree for Harvard but 2:1 would likely be enough for slightly lower-tier Ivy leagues which are likely enough to get you into amazing law firms in NYC anyway.

I say UK undergrad as the first step because I do not believe that paying the extortionate fees for US undergrad is ever worth it (need to save for law school!). In addition it seems that British people with Law degrees applying to US law school is quite common so you won't be alone.

Oxbridge gives the edge to make getting into the ivy league easier.

I'm unsure of the other routes of just doing the bar exam directly since these law firms are very dependent on campus recruitment. The most direct method is to simply go to a top US law firm in the USA. Alternatives would be to aim for a US law firm that has a London office perhaps? (better money that magic circle + it is still good WEX in the meantime during your journey).

There is a Harvard scholarship for British students applying to graduate degrees (Kennedy Scholarships & another one I can't remember). So there is an opportunity out there!

I'm always excited to see ambitious people looking to escape this pretty miserable country so don't give up!
(edited 1 month ago)
You make it sound like someone can just waft in to Oxford or Cambridge, waft into an Ivy League Law School, and then waft into a large law firm. The routes which you mention are intensely competitive at every stage and only the most academically able and determined candidates will be able to take those routes. It may be that the OP is one such person, but we don't know about his or her academic profile.

By the way, Oxford and Cambridge award BAs in most subjects, including STEM subjects, for historical reasons. BA was a rank within a medieval university (this also explains why Oxford BAs become MAs a few years after the award of the BA. The MA is a step within membership of the university). Other universities call the degree in law LLB, and some people who post here mistakenly think that law firms prefer people to have LLBs, but there's no truth in that.

People seeking to work for large law firms in the US or the UK should be in no doubt about the commitment required to obtain the large salaries paid to junior lawyers in such firms. My partner's son has recently started at a big name US firm, in its London office. He works from about 9am until about midnight or 1am on the following day pretty much every weekday, and sometimes at weekends.

Young people can handle this, for a bit. When I was a young barrister I sometimes worked for eighteen hours a day and sometimes slept in my chambers with my gown or my coat as a blanket, but that was my choice and these days I choose to work a lot less. You don't always get the same choice in a law firm. This is not to say don't go for it, but be aware of what you are getting into.
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by Stiffy Byng
You make it sound like someone can just waft in to Oxford or Cambridge, waft into an Ivy League Law School, and then waft into a large law firm. The routes which you mention are intensely competitive at every stage and only the most academically able and determined candidates will be able to take those routes. It may be that the OP is one such person, but we don't know about his or her academic profile.
By the way, Oxford and Cambridge award BAs in most subjects, including STEM subjects, for historical reasons. BA was a rank within a medieval university (this also explains why Oxford BAs become MAs a few years after the award of the BA. The MA is a step within membership of the university). Other universities call the degree in law LLB, and some people who post here mistakenly think that law firms prefer people to have LLBs, but there's no truth in that.
People seeking to work for large law firms in the US or the UK should be in no doubt about the commitment required to obtain the large salaries paid to junior lawyers in such firms. My partner's son has recently started at a big name US firm, in its London office. He works from about 9am until about midnight or 1am on the following day pretty much every weekday, and sometimes at weekends.
Young people can handle this, for a bit. When I was a young barrister I sometimes worked for eighteen hours a day and sometimes slept in my chambers with my gown or my coat as a blanket, but that was my choice and these days I choose to work a lot less. You don't always get the same choice in a law firm. This is not to say don't go for it, but be aware of what you are getting into.

I would concur this, it is definitely not a walk in the park.
Re-reading OP's initial query I acknowledge that money cannot be the sole motivator for this path (very quick way towards severe burnout). But liking the general attitudes of the US which I presume to mean wanting to work intensely hard, the fast pace and global impact are still valid reasons.

Life is hard enough as it is, so some encouragement is still highly valuable (if it may be overly optimistic).
They will likely figure out all of what you have said above on their own, which I find is the point of living life and learning.
Original post by ILikeChina87181
I would concur this, it is definitely not a walk in the park.
Re-reading OP's initial query I acknowledge that money cannot be the sole motivator for this path (very quick way towards severe burnout). But liking the general attitudes of the US which I presume to mean wanting to work intensely hard, the fast pace and global impact are still valid reasons.
Life is hard enough as it is, so some encouragement is still highly valuable (if it may be overly optimistic).
They will likely figure out all of what you have said above on their own, which I find is the point of living life and learning.

Perhaps, but this forum gives me the impression that some school leavers have unrealistic ideas about life in a large law firm, based on watching glossy TV shows. People often say that they wish to work in corporate law, but appear not to know what that is. The money is indeed great, and the work can be rewarding in other ways, but the physical and mental toll on young lawyers can be quite severe. Having worked both in chambers and in international law firms, I deplore the culture which has developed in US and now in UK law firms. Billing targets of 2300 hours a year are, I think, unreasonable.

Old joke:

Equity partner talking to Associate. "Look, that's my new Ferrari. Young man/woman, if you work hard, hit your targets, and do well, then maybe next year,...

... I'll buy a Lamborghini."
(edited 1 month ago)
Reply 9
Hi everyone! Thank you so much for all this input, I have learned loads. It seems like a pathway more common than I thought. I think the points about how demanding law firms can be are a really important for me to consider. I am a very determined person and I love working hard, but I really don't know yet if that would all be too much for me. I think it sounds like the most fitting long term goal at the moment, but I definitely need to widen my options so I don't get trapped in a life of exhaustion. Its probably a good idea for me to look into that now, as if I want to aim high I appreciate preparation starts early. Not to be superficial, but an effeicent money-earning career really appeals to me - its just the lifestyle I want to aim for. It sounds like I should keep in mind other professions may suit this more.
However, I want to love what I do, and really let it shape me, and at the moment this path just appeals.
Reply 10
Original post by Stiffy Byng
You make it sound like someone can just waft in to Oxford or Cambridge, waft into an Ivy League Law School, and then waft into a large law firm. The routes which you mention are intensely competitive at every stage and only the most academically able and determined candidates will be able to take those routes. It may be that the OP is one such person, but we don't know about his or her academic profile.
By the way, Oxford and Cambridge award BAs in most subjects, including STEM subjects, for historical reasons. BA was a rank within a medieval university (this also explains why Oxford BAs become MAs a few years after the award of the BA. The MA is a step within membership of the university). Other universities call the degree in law LLB, and some people who post here mistakenly think that law firms prefer people to have LLBs, but there's no truth in that.
People seeking to work for large law firms in the US or the UK should be in no doubt about the commitment required to obtain the large salaries paid to junior lawyers in such firms. My partner's son has recently started at a big name US firm, in its London office. He works from about 9am until about midnight or 1am on the following day pretty much every weekday, and sometimes at weekends.
Young people can handle this, for a bit. When I was a young barrister I sometimes worked for eighteen hours a day and sometimes slept in my chambers with my gown or my coat as a blanket, but that was my choice and these days I choose to work a lot less. You don't always get the same choice in a law firm. This is not to say don't go for it, but be aware of what you are getting into.

I'm sorry if I came across naively like that. You make a good point, top universities are not an easy goal. I am, however, a very academic and driven girl with multiple strong extracurriculars (inc. music and national sports) despite a disability limiting me to 40% vision. I have always been really gifted for maths (high scoring in UKMT challenges 3 years above me), but despite external encouragement I can't seem to imagine an enjoyable career in this sector since I'm not fond of sciences.
At the moment my family (some professors at Oxbridge etc.) have encouraged me to practice limited preparation and study in school, saying that high level academia requires this skill and it avoids burnout. Therefore I don't really know how I'd respond to intense study eventually. Although, at the moment I am predicted 10 9s and an A in admaths at GCSE. I definitely need to work on my conciseness in writing and organisation though.
Do you think I could potentially be fit for high level studies and work, particularly in law?
No apology needed. My comment about wafting was not directed at you.

There is no need to associate a degree with a career. Apart from certain pathways such as medicine, engineering, and architecture, in general any degree can fit you for a wide variety of careers. If you want to study maths, study maths. If you want to study ancient Mesopotamian languages, do that. After a degree in any subject you could become a lawyer or do almost whatever else interests you. It's good to earn a good wage, but please try not to make money your main or only motivator.

The trick is to find a thing that you like doing, become very good at doing that thing, and then someone will pay you to do that thing. If your job is doing something that you like to do, then getting up on Monday will be no chore.

I spent last Friday in a court cross-examining two dishonest bankers. I had fun! Tomorrow, I shall be in another court arguing about a thing called a Norwich Pharmacal Order. I shall have fun! I was paid several thousand pounds for last Friday and I shall be paid several thousand pounds for tomorrow. Therefore, next week I can spend several hundred pounds going to see Juan Diego Florez in The Tales Of Hoffmann at the Royal Opera, and having a very good dinner with very posh wine afterwards. Work life balance, and all that.

The workload at the best universities is high, but not so high that you can't enjoy yourself as well. The workload for junior lawyers is very high, and the risk of burnout is real. Junior barristers often work as hard as junior solicitors, but junior barristers, being self-employed, have more control over their working patterns. The junior barrister can sometimes take a weekend off to go skiing while the junior solicitor is in the office all weekend.
(edited 1 week ago)
Going to US law for monetary reasons is unnecessary. Many of the top US law firms have London offices which are financially integrated with their US arms so you would earn the same here as a partner as in the US - I.e. potentially up to several million. The advantage of joint the UK office is that you will not have to undertake the additional study required to qualify in the US.

I concur with other writers that what you see on TV bears little resemblance to the practice of law. The pressures in reality are such that I have seen junior lawyers with first class honours degrees from top universities being unable to cope although the vast majority of law firm entrants handle the workload well. Whether they are happy varies on the individual in question.
My partner's son has a degree from Chicago Summa *** Laude and a Cambridge first. He is in his third month at a White Shoe law firm and is close to the edge, and considering whether or not to stay in the law. He works until 1am or 2am several nights a week. He is a resilient young man, not a snowflake.

I hear that Slaughter and May do not have billing targets. If this is true, I salute the wise partners of that firm.


EDIT: The puritan robot does not read Latin and thinks that the middle word of Summa [with] Laude is a crude colloquialism!
(edited 1 week ago)
I would highly recommend that any student who is potentially interested in a City law career reads The Times' article "I’m 26 and earn £140k. My ‘perks’? Burnout and bullying bosses" from 13th November. Yes, it's anecdotal but it adds some valuable colour to the recent Legal Cheek research on working hours.

Recognise that this career path can be brutal. The hours are ridiculous and the pressure can be overwhelming. At a junior level (i.e. trainee, junior assoc) you have no control over your hours and work/life balance, so the fantastic pay becomes an irrelevance. A big monthly paycheck is of little consolation when you're trundling home at 1am in a taxi, having cancelled (again) your hot date/drinks with friends/time at the gym/catching-up with family.

I seem to remember I shared some thoughts in a thread on the Legal Careers forum on billing targets and what that means in practice. If anyone's interested, I can dredge that up again.
Original post by chalks
I would highly recommend that any student who is potentially interested in a City law career reads The Times' article "I’m 26 and earn £140k. My ‘perks’? Burnout and bullying bosses" from 13th November. Yes, it's anecdotal but it adds some valuable colour to the recent Legal Cheek research on working hours.
Recognise that this career path can be brutal. The hours are ridiculous and the pressure can be overwhelming. At a junior level (i.e. trainee, junior assoc) you have no control over your hours and work/life balance, so the fantastic pay becomes an irrelevance. A big monthly paycheck is of little consolation when you're trundling home at 1am in a taxi, having cancelled (again) your hot date/drinks with friends/time at the gym/catching-up with family.
I seem to remember I shared some thoughts in a thread on the Legal Careers forum on billing targets and what that means in practice. If anyone's interested, I can dredge that up again.


All fair points but let’s keep this in context. I was a junior associate in early 2k and the hours were brutal and the money not as good as it is now. If you have the mental strength and physical endurance you will be fine.

The stress levels from a City career are not comparable to working a minimum wage job and struggling to feed your kids (I would imagine) or working in the police, hunting child abusers.
That is true. But I still think that the City law firm culture needs a re-set.
Senior doctors used to brutalise junior doctors because the seniors had been brutalised when they were junior. "Eighty hour week? We did it. Therefore so can you." See also hazing in the armed forces.

I do not endorse the current snowflake culture of giving students dogs to pet after they have done an essay. Being a lawyer is a tough job and only the tough should apply. But there are limits.

Fatigue causes skilled pilots to crash airliners, skilled surgeons to kill patients, and skilled lawyers to mess up contracts. As a litigator I gain work because of the mistakes made by exhausted transactional lawyers at 4am.
Original post by katana10000
All fair points but let’s keep this in context. I was a junior associate in early 2k and the hours were brutal and the money not as good as it is now. If you have the mental strength and physical endurance you will be fine.
The stress levels from a City career are not comparable to working a minimum wage job and struggling to feed your kids (I would imagine) or working in the police, hunting child abusers.

I don't think anyone doubts that there are other jobs out there which are more stressful, or that there are individuals who generally have it worse than junior City lawyers. No-one would seek to argue otherwise.

There is a certain level of (understandable) naivety about what City law is like, at all levels of seniority, amongst those on these forums. There are many super bright, ambitious young people who go into that branch of the profession without a clear understanding of what City lawyers actually do, or what will be required of them. Is it going be better than minimum wage shelf-stacking in Tesco? Yes. Is it going to be glamorous deal-making, dispute-resolving a la Suits? Sorry, no.
I think that the 1990s TV show This Life gave a reasonably accurate depiction of being a junior solicitor in a small to medium sized law firm or a junior barrister in a general common law chambers at that time; but the show was mainly about relationships and hard partying, with the law as a background. One of my close friends at the Bar was the legal adviser to the show. He knew a lot about relationships and hard partying. These days he is a Silk in a Magic Circle set and lives a quieter life.

The only two barrister shows which get anywhere near reality, in my view, are North Square (remade as the not very good Silk) and Defending the Guilty. Caroline, the brilliant, broken-hearted, dysfunctional, borderline alcoholic pupil-supervisor is a very well written and well acted character, as is the obnoxious head of her Chambers, who is just as over-dressed and annoying as a youngish and ambitious Silk would tend to be.

Rumpole of the Bailey has aged quite well, but although it was made in the 1980s and ostensibly set in the 1980s it really depicts the criminal and general common law bar as it was in the mid 1960s. Kavanagh QC is nonsense.

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