The Student Room Group

Asking and caring about someone’s bodycount is weird.

I don’t know why this has been so normalised to care about bodycount so much, even the word bodycount is cringe like it’s dehumanising and acting like the amount of people you’ve slept with is like a kill/death ratio on COD.

It’s mainly men asking women (bc let’s be real vice versa is hardly heard of) only mainly to make judgments and shame them if they have a bodycount over 5 lol, and then refuse to pursue anything romantic with them because of that or being disgusted by it. Having an extensive sexual history doesn’t always indicate disloyalty, a lot of people decide that they want to give up meaningless hookups for the sake of experiencing love and building a life with another person- because people seem to equate sex=Love and most of what a relationship is for some reason, there’s more to a relationship than sex and some people decide that they want to prioritise that.

Also with STDs, as long as you know someone is getting tested and using protection then there’s nothing to worry about.

Also there’s people out here with low bodycounts who cheat, I’ve known someone who lost their virginity to their partner but cheated on them because they wanted to experience more people but have the safety net of the relationship. Having a lack of moral integrity makes people cheat not necessarily their sexual history.!

I swear like a good few years ago it wasn’t much of a thing to care so much about bodycount like no one asked, but I blame people like Andrew Tate and the flourishing misogyny culture who’ve made shaming women for their sexuality in particular more mainstream again. Men need to put aside their insecurity and need for control and not put a woman’s sexuality in a cage.

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I agree that it's double standards and ridiculous, however blaming "people like Andrew Tate and the flourishing misogyny culture" makes it seem like this is a recent thing, when actually this is how women have always been treated throughout history.

You say "a good few years ago it wasn't much of a thing to care so much about bodycount [sic]", but you're forgetting that the sexual revolution which only started in the 60s was very short lived anyway. Fears about AIDS in the 80s knocked a lot of it on the head, and increased immigration brought certain specific religions (in which women are given very few freedoms) to more parts of the world.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

I absolutely don't agree with it, but it definitely isn't new.
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It absolutely is weird and cringey.

Part of it is definitely a shame thing. It's about forming a "virtuous" in-group and an undesirable "promiscuous" out-group. Ultimately it's a means of controlling women's sex life through humiliation.

But I also get the feeling that a lot of men who put a lot of stock by this are really sexually insecure. On some level they're thinking, "I know sex with me would be mediocre at best. So I'd better make sure I find a woman with very few points of comparison, so that she won't realise she could be doing better." I suspect they're also hoping to find a woman who will just go along with what they want sexually, out of inexperience.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
I agree that it's double standards and ridiculous, however blaming "people like Andrew Tate and the flourishing misogyny culture" makes it seem like this is a recent thing, when actually this is how women have always been treated throughout history.
You say "a good few years ago it wasn't much of a thing to care so much about bodycount [sic]", but you're forgetting that the sexual revolution which only started in the 60s was very short lived anyway. Fears about AIDS in the 80s knocked a lot of it on the head, and increased immigration brought certain specific religions (in which women are given very few freedoms) to more parts of the world.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
I absolutely don't agree with it, but it definitely isn't new.

I absolutely agree with you, I guess I should have reworded what I said- what I meant to say was a few years ago that no one cared but I know that purity and shaming culture has always existed though has been in a state of ebbs and flow, and a few years ago we were in a sweet spot where asking bodycount wasn’t a thing and other terms like high/low value women etc. though mysoginy has always been present.
Original post by anosmianAcrimony
It absolutely is weird and cringey.
Part of it is definitely a shame thing. It's about forming a "virtuous" in-group and an undesirable "promiscuous" out-group. Ultimately it's a means of controlling women's sexual behaviour through humiliation.
But I also get the feeling that a lot of men who put a lot of stock by this are really sexually insecure. On some level they're thinking, "I know sex with me would be mediocre at best. So I'd better make sure I find a woman with very few points of comparison, so that she won't realise she could be doing better." I suspect they're also hoping to find a woman who will just go along with what they want sexually, out of inexperience.

Yup 100% That and jealousy too I think that women might get more play than them.
It's a reasonable question to ask someone you plan on dating.

It can show your standards, self love, insecurities ect. It can show your character. I don't think you should outright shame them, but I do think you can judge and let their body count be a deciding factor.
Original post by nonchalant-
It's a reasonable question to ask someone you plan on dating.
It can show your standards, self love, insecurities ect. It can show your character. I don't think you should outright shame them, but I do think you can judge and let their body count be a deciding factor.

Nope, all it shows is the insecurity of the person who asked. How does it show your standards, self love or character lmao? Those things are proven by getting to know a person not how many people they’ve shagged. I’ve never bothered to ask about it and don’t bother to tell anyone I’m interested in mine. Another example I can use is a partner of mine who did tell me without me asking had a high count but was my longest relationship and was a very secure and lovely/loyal person.
Original post by RatRestaraunt
Nope, all it shows is the insecurity of the person who asked. How does it show your standards, self love or character lmao? Those things are proven by getting to know a person not how many people they’ve shagged. I’ve never bothered to ask about it and don’t bother to tell anyone I’m interested in mine. Another example I can use is a partner of mine who did tell me without me asking had a high count but was my longest relationship and was a very secure and lovely/loyal person.

"Lmao". Act like you haven't heard girls say they slept around because they didn't love themselves. You'll hear older women say things like that all the time.

I do think there are men who ask out of insecurity but there's some men AND women who ask to get an idea of their character.
Original post by nonchalant-
"Lmao". Act like you haven't heard girls say they slept around because they didn't love themselves. You'll hear older women say things like that all the time.
I do think there are men who ask out of insecurity but there's some men AND women who ask to get an idea of their character.

Only older women in my life I’ve heard was bragging about all the fit men they pulled back in the day and toy boys lol idk what grannies you hang out with. Would you say that men sleep around bc they’re insecure? Once again it’s trying to find a reason to put down womens sexual freedom and no emphasis on a man’s.

I think you’re pulling smn out your ass to justify your own insecurity, just confirmation for what Ive said really. I won’t deny that both men and women can sleep around for the wrong reasons like using sex as a cope but making out that women almost exclusively do it bc they are unstable is big joke fella.

Also, as I said in my original post, people change. So someone might have slept around bc of all the wrong reasons but decided to fix up and heal and is ready to pursue a steady long term relationship, don’t you think they deserve a chance or should be single forever?

Men who sleep around= player. women who sleep around= mentally ill apparently 🥴
(edited 3 weeks ago)
I don’t think I’ve ever asked or been asked. It’s info that was usually just volunteered either way. Maybe I’ve just been lucky not to date the most excruciating people imaginable.
I'd rather my girl have 0 bodies under her belt tbh...I mean I'm not keen on dating murderers.
Original post by ICEcold_Stoic
I'd rather my girl have 0 bodies under her belt tbh...I mean I'm not keen on dating murderers.

This is very reasonable.
Original post by ICEcold_Stoic
I'd rather my girl have 0 bodies under her belt tbh...I mean I'm not keen on dating murderers.

honestly if I were dating a murderer I'd be a bit scared
Original post by PinkMobilePhone
I agree that it's double standards and ridiculous, however blaming "people like Andrew Tate and the flourishing misogyny culture" makes it seem like this is a recent thing, when actually this is how women have always been treated throughout history.
You say "a good few years ago it wasn't much of a thing to care so much about bodycount [sic]", but you're forgetting that the sexual revolution which only started in the 60s was very short lived anyway. Fears about AIDS in the 80s knocked a lot of it on the head, and increased immigration brought certain specific religions (in which women are given very few freedoms) to more parts of the world.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
I absolutely don't agree with it, but it definitely isn't new.

I think it’s because after the #metoo movement we have had a brief respite where we seemed to have actual progress for once. But the conversations about women sexuality and liberation spooked a lot of conservative who then felt the need to swing the pendulum back to the far right. And it was Andrew Tate and all the podcast hosts that marked the beginning of that shift.
This should perhaps be in the relationship section.

My general belief is that I would like to know a woman's 'bodycount'.

While I previously held the position that it didn't matter at all, as I've become older and more invested in finding the future wife and mother and being more ruthless in terms of not wasting time, identifying a females character is important.

While there are some men who are bothered about body count because they are sexually insecure and wish to obsess over each phallus, for me it's more of a correlating factor to behaviours that may represent red flags.

The OP raises a number of anecdotal statements in defense of unimportance but the question here is whether there's any aggregate data to support this and the answer is no.

What we do know is that there is normally not smoke without fire and so while stereotypes can be wrong (and may not apply to a lot of women), I can reasonably assume that a majority of women (i.e. 51 of 100) who have slept with 30 men, probably would have a higher incidence of disloyalty than the other 49.

Now that still allows for plenty of women who simply use sex for fun and can act differently in a relationship but for a majority it probably does imply that they don't value sex, use it for emotional validation, have poor standards of men, carry a higher risk of STD's or prior abortions, have allowed themselves to be strung along in situationships without long term commitment (indicative again of low standards and poor self esteem) and yes, may represent a higher risk of being disloyal or leverage sex.

All of those factors are things I consider fair enough when considering the long term.

So while the OP (not sure if male or female) asks men not to judge a woman for her actions, actually I disagree. Just as a woman is under no obligations to date me based on character, men today generally have poor standards which is what allows high divorce rates and the negative impacts on children. I would encourage men generally to place more emphasis on the standards of the women they date.

The interesting statistic I saw discussed was a study which concluded that women with a body count of 7 or above had a higher than average divorce risk while a virgin had divorce risk of about half the average (and less than half of the promiscuous women). Now that's not a simple matter of each penis makes her think of divorce but again, it's likely linked to behaviour and correlation.

..

I will add to the other discussions.

On the double standards, I won't say I'm not a hypocrite but I also don't think it's a terribly healthy thing for a man to sleep around either, at least in relation to their attitude towards women.

On the Tate thing, thats part of a longer running and wider reaction to societal change. The 'red pill' (I think Tate is considered 'Black Pill which is apparently more extreme) has generally been gaining traction since almost 20 years ago and is simply the natural consequence of consensus social politics breaking down in combination with trends like online dating harming a large group of men (essentially, a greater supply of men has led to a larger level of rejection from women). Basically if the liberal left wish to argue for things like 'we should DESTROY gender or social norms' then it can't suprise people that those opposed will also become increasingly militant. To quote the old adage, 'for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'.

..

I should say that I've only actually rejected a woman for body count once and she was 40+. It just gave me a 'eww' reaction that killed my desire for her.
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Original post by Rakas21
This should perhaps be in the relationship section.
My general belief is that I would like to know a woman's 'bodycount'.
While I previously held the position that it didn't matter at all, as I've become older and more invested in finding the future wife and mother and being more ruthless in terms of not wasting time, identifying a females character is important.
While there are some men who are bothered about body count because they are sexually insecure and wish to obsess over each phallus, for me it's more of a correlating factor to behaviours that may represent red flags.
The OP raises a number of anecdotal statements in defense of unimportance but the question here is whether there's any aggregate data to support this and the answer is no.
What we do know is that there is normally not smoke without fire and so while stereotypes can be wrong (and may not apply to a lot of women), I can reasonably assume that a majority of women (i.e. 51 of 100) who have slept with 30 men, probably would have a higher incidence of disloyalty than the other 49.
Now that still allows for plenty of women who simply use sex for fun and can act differently in a relationship but for a majority it probably does imply that they don't value sex, use it for emotional validation, have poor standards of men, carry a higher risk of STD's or prior abortions, have allowed themselves to be strung along in situationships without long term commitment (indicative again of low standards and poor self esteem) and yes, may represent a higher risk of being disloyal or leverage sex.
All of those factors are things I consider fair enough when considering the long term.
So while the OP (not sure if male or female) asks men not to judge a woman for her actions, actually I disagree. Just as a woman is under no obligations to date me based on character, men today generally have poor standards which is what allows high divorce rates and the negative impacts on children. I would encourage men generally to place more emphasis on the standards of the women they date.
The interesting statistic I saw discussed was a study which concluded that women with a body count of 7 or above had a higher than average divorce risk while a virgin had divorce risk of about half the average (and less than half of the promiscuous women). Now that's not a simple matter of each penis makes her think of divorce but again, it's likely linked to behaviour and correlation.
..
I will add to the other discussions.
On the double standards, I won't say I'm not a hypocrite but I also don't think it's a terribly healthy thing for a man to sleep around either, at least in relation to their attitude towards women.
On the Tate thing, thats part of a longer running and wider reaction to societal change. The 'red pill' (I think Tate is considered 'Black Pill which is apparently more extreme) has generally been gaining traction since almost 20 years ago and is simply the natural consequence of consensus social politics breaking down in combination with trends like online dating harming a large group of men (essentially, a greater supply of men has led to a larger level of rejection from women). Basically if the liberal left wish to argue for things like 'we should DESTROY gender or social norms' then it can't suprise people that those opposed will also become increasingly militant. To quote the old adage, 'for each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'.
..
I should say that I've only actually rejected a woman for body count once and she was 40+. It just gave me a 'eww' reaction that killed my desire for her.

You didn’t have to write all that just to prove my point about the prejudice at the end and trying to justify it with a long ahh paragraph lol. I also don’t see official statistics saying that divorce rates are high because of mens poor taste in women or due to sexual history lol wot u on? Divorce is a mutual situation caused by a multitude of factors. The problem is judging a persons character solely on the basis of their sexual history, no way to actually find out until you test the waters and actually get to know them as a person.
The only reason I’d care about it would be due to faithfulness (so if you’ve slept with 20 women in a year then I might question that before getting into a relationship with you. Being young and naive e.g university student, isn’t an excuse for this).

Other than that, I don’t care really and it should be viewed equal for both sexes (rather than currently where if you’re a man it seems to be “cool” that you have a high body count but if you’re a woman with a high body count you’re seen as a [Redacted]”).

But I don’t really understand the obsession with body count in general (especially when some men brag about it in songs… like who cares if you slept with 5 girls last night, that’s not something to brag about).
(edited 3 weeks ago)
Reply 17
Focusing on bodycount misses the point. Someone's worth isn't tied to their sexual history and it doesn't predict the quality of a relationship. It’s way more meaningful to connect on shared values, respect and adventure.
For me personally it is a turn off. I can understand if one cares if the partner is virgin or not, but not about the past experience, unless it is relevant in cases of trauma or something like that.
Also, double standards are driving me crazy. Why is it good if the man is experienced but if the woman is experienced she is a slut...
In same sex relationships there is a thing too, maybe for a reason because I can admit I'm less experienced with girls and it is harder for me to be relaxed with girls so I explain it and at some point we have to discuss bodycount. I don't like it but for some reason it is esear after we discuss it and understand each other's role.... I don't like it this way, but it works better....
Original post by RatRestaraunt
You didn’t have to write all that just to prove my point about the prejudice at the end and trying to justify it with a long ahh paragraph lol. I also don’t see official statistics saying that divorce rates are high because of mens poor taste in women or due to sexual history lol wot u on? Divorce is a mutual situation caused by a multitude of factors. The problem is judging a persons character solely on the basis of their sexual history, no way to actually find out until you test the waters and actually get to know them as a person.

With regards to 'wot you don't, I'm on the same granola as you. Your essentially arguing almost entirely based upon subjective and anecdotal evidence and opinion as am I (since there's not all that much data on male subjective historical standards and marriage), neither of us can really claim to be more credible than the other in our assertions.

My statement surrounding sexual history and divorce however is actually based on objective evidence though. Notably a report which showed a positive correlation between the number of prior sexual partners and the likelihood to divorce.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability#:~:text=The%20highest%20five%2Dyear%20divorce%20rates%20of%20all%20are%20associated,increases%20the%20odds%20of%20divorce.

Stating that divorce is a mutual decision is actually quite amusing and suggests that you are likely a woman. The 60% of divorces which are not caused by cheating are almost exclusively initiated by women. Not only would no man ever divorce you for equivalent nonsense reasons like being 'bored in the relationship' but in the US and UK, the woman is generally rewarded financially for initiating divorce with a man who isn't poor without a pre-nup because she will get half his property value. Men are generally disincentivised from pursuing a divorce.

Your correct that judging somebody solely on the basis of that may not provide a complete evaluation of a woman's character and its possible that the love of my life was in the pool of women I have not pursued however when living in a state in which one is expected to invest time into pursuing a woman, you surely are not surprised that some men don't consider the likely reward to be worth the tedious texting, messaging and generally beating around the bush that modern online dating represents. At least if one has other options available without any 'amber' flags.
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