Law Conversion (GDL)??
Heyy,
For those people who have decided to or have already taken a Law Conversion course (or are taking it rn), what have your experiences been? I'm pretty sure only The University of Law offers it in England?
Will a law degree or a law conversion make me more employable and what are the pros and cons of both? Will taking a law conversion course be a setback? Just asking for some insight into the whole experience and what it can do for you, since I'm personally undecided between Law and English Literature (or politics) myself.
Thank youu
For those people who have decided to or have already taken a Law Conversion course (or are taking it rn), what have your experiences been? I'm pretty sure only The University of Law offers it in England?
Will a law degree or a law conversion make me more employable and what are the pros and cons of both? Will taking a law conversion course be a setback? Just asking for some insight into the whole experience and what it can do for you, since I'm personally undecided between Law and English Literature (or politics) myself.
Thank youu
nah many places offer it including BPP and City university. Most corporate law firms I've looked at don't mind law conversions at all, and in fact they pay for you to do both the conversion, and then the year of studying for solicitors qualifying exams (if you apply and get offered a training contract by a firm in your final year/after graduating a non-law degree, that is). I was on a webinar run by Legal Cheek (check them out - they run great events for ppl interested in corporate law) and a lawyer from a big city law firm admitted she wished she'd studied history undergrad and then done a conversion lol. So don't feel pressured to do a law undergrad for fear of not being able to change to law after - cos you defo can
(edited 4 months ago)
Original post by dilllydilly
nah many places offer it including BPP and City university. Most corporate law firms I've looked at don't mind law conversions at all, and in fact they pay for you to do both the conversion, and then the year of studying for solicitors qualifying exams (if you apply and get offered a training contract by a firm in your final year/after graduating a non-law degree, that is). I was on a webinar run by Legal Cheek (check them out - they run great events for ppl interested in corporate law) and a lawyer from a big city law firm admitted she wished she'd studied history undergrad and then done a conversion lol. So don't feel pressured to do a law undergrad for fear of not being able to change to law after - cos you defo can
Okay, this was helpful thank you 👍
Your chances of success in a legal career are roughly the same whether you obtain a degree in law or a degree in another subject and a PGDL. Your chances will be enhanced by doing well in any subject at a competitive university.
There are pros and cons to both routes. It might be best to follow your instinct as to which subject you most wish to study at university (in your case, English).
The pros of studying law as an undergraduate are as follows -
(1) You may find the law to be a very interesting subject, because it is.
(2) If you become a practising lawyer, and especially if you become a barrister, your greater depth of legal knowledge may assist you in your first few years in practice. Thereafter, the people with PGDLs will have caught up and will know as much law as you do. For the first few years, they are cuffing and bluffing it, but "BS baffles brains" is the motto of all self-respecting lawyers (and most Judges, obvs - the only people who take this stuff seriously are Law Dons, and also Lord Burrows in the Supreme Court, but he's a Law Don).
(3) A law degree opens a path to a career as an academic teaching and writing about law.
(4) You save on one year of fees and expenses because you won't need a PGDL.
The cons of studying law as a undergraduate are as follows -
(1) You may find the law to be a very boring subject, because it can be if you are not in the mood.
(2) Those precious undergraduate years will not come again, so why not spend them studying Akkadian, Physics, Art, or Geography, if you love one of those things? Doing so will enhance your life forever, and may even make you a better practical lawyer in the long run. Also, you have an easy option to abandon law and make a happy career of whatever your first love is. BTW, anyone who wants to practise in Hard IP (Patents and Trademarks) should seriously consider a science degree.
(3) If you are at a university where social life is mainly faculty-based rather than a collegiate university, you won't be driven bonkers by your fellow law students being boring and/or stressed out and/or all thinking that they are Elle Woods' hotter and smarter little sibling. At a collegiate university, you can safely ignore all of the other law students except occasionally your tutorial/supervision partner and the bunch of losers from that other college whom you beat up in the moots.
(4) Another year of fees and expenses is no biggy when looking at a career of several decades in which, if things go well, you stand to earn the big doubloons.
Approximately half of the lawyers in the UK have law degrees and the other half have degrees in something else.
There are pros and cons to both routes. It might be best to follow your instinct as to which subject you most wish to study at university (in your case, English).
The pros of studying law as an undergraduate are as follows -
(1) You may find the law to be a very interesting subject, because it is.
(2) If you become a practising lawyer, and especially if you become a barrister, your greater depth of legal knowledge may assist you in your first few years in practice. Thereafter, the people with PGDLs will have caught up and will know as much law as you do. For the first few years, they are cuffing and bluffing it, but "BS baffles brains" is the motto of all self-respecting lawyers (and most Judges, obvs - the only people who take this stuff seriously are Law Dons, and also Lord Burrows in the Supreme Court, but he's a Law Don).
(3) A law degree opens a path to a career as an academic teaching and writing about law.
(4) You save on one year of fees and expenses because you won't need a PGDL.
The cons of studying law as a undergraduate are as follows -
(1) You may find the law to be a very boring subject, because it can be if you are not in the mood.
(2) Those precious undergraduate years will not come again, so why not spend them studying Akkadian, Physics, Art, or Geography, if you love one of those things? Doing so will enhance your life forever, and may even make you a better practical lawyer in the long run. Also, you have an easy option to abandon law and make a happy career of whatever your first love is. BTW, anyone who wants to practise in Hard IP (Patents and Trademarks) should seriously consider a science degree.
(3) If you are at a university where social life is mainly faculty-based rather than a collegiate university, you won't be driven bonkers by your fellow law students being boring and/or stressed out and/or all thinking that they are Elle Woods' hotter and smarter little sibling. At a collegiate university, you can safely ignore all of the other law students except occasionally your tutorial/supervision partner and the bunch of losers from that other college whom you beat up in the moots.
(4) Another year of fees and expenses is no biggy when looking at a career of several decades in which, if things go well, you stand to earn the big doubloons.
Approximately half of the lawyers in the UK have law degrees and the other half have degrees in something else.
In another thread nearby I said the same stuff as above and mentioned some Super-Silks, some of whom have history degrees, others law degrees. We have had Supreme Court Judges who don't have law degrees.
Study law if you wish, or spend three years immersed in Shakespeare and the best poets and novelists. I know which I would choose.
Study law if you wish, or spend three years immersed in Shakespeare and the best poets and novelists. I know which I would choose.
(edited 4 months ago)
Original post by Stiffy Byng
In another thread nearby I said the same stuff as above and mentioned some Super-Silks, some of whom have history degrees, others law degrees. We have had Supreme Court Judges who don't have law degrees.
Study law if you wish, or spend three years immersed in Shakespeare and the best poets and novelists. I know which I would choose.
Study law if you wish, or spend three years immersed in Shakespeare and the best poets and novelists. I know which I would choose.
Oh okay I see.... Thanks for the information!
I did a law degree in the mid-90s (!) and, on reflection, wish I had studied English Lit instead. I think I would have enjoyed the subject more and, perhaps more importantly, wouldn't have been swept-up on the law career "conveyor belt" which was (and still is) so prevalent. A different degree would have opened my eyes to other career options.
In 25 years of practice, I was never able to spot which solicitor had undertaken a law degree and which had done the conversion course. That's a reflection of what is actually involved in the job itself, particularly in mainstream corporate/commercial work. It reminds me of a quote from my original supervising partner who, referring to an excellent colleague of his, said "Bob is the best lawyer I've ever met: it's a just shame that all the law he knows could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a black market pen."
@Stiffy Byng : small point of order - I have always regarded trademarks as soft, not hard, IP? The latter designation usually being limited to patents?
In 25 years of practice, I was never able to spot which solicitor had undertaken a law degree and which had done the conversion course. That's a reflection of what is actually involved in the job itself, particularly in mainstream corporate/commercial work. It reminds me of a quote from my original supervising partner who, referring to an excellent colleague of his, said "Bob is the best lawyer I've ever met: it's a just shame that all the law he knows could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a black market pen."
@Stiffy Byng : small point of order - I have always regarded trademarks as soft, not hard, IP? The latter designation usually being limited to patents?
Original post by chalks
I did a law degree in the mid-90s (!) and, on reflection, wish I had studied English Lit instead. I think I would have enjoyed the subject more and, perhaps more importantly, wouldn't have been swept-up on the law career "conveyor belt" which was (and still is) so prevalent. A different degree would have opened my eyes to other career options.
In 25 years of practice, I was never able to spot which solicitor had undertaken a law degree and which had done the conversion course. That's a reflection of what is actually involved in the job itself, particularly in mainstream corporate/commercial work. It reminds me of a quote from my original supervising partner who, referring to an excellent colleague of his, said "Bob is the best lawyer I've ever met: it's a just shame that all the law he knows could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a black market pen."
@Stiffy Byng : small point of order - I have always regarded trademarks as soft, not hard, IP? The latter designation usually being limited to patents?
In 25 years of practice, I was never able to spot which solicitor had undertaken a law degree and which had done the conversion course. That's a reflection of what is actually involved in the job itself, particularly in mainstream corporate/commercial work. It reminds me of a quote from my original supervising partner who, referring to an excellent colleague of his, said "Bob is the best lawyer I've ever met: it's a just shame that all the law he knows could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a black market pen."
@Stiffy Byng : small point of order - I have always regarded trademarks as soft, not hard, IP? The latter designation usually being limited to patents?
You are indeed right, as soft as my head, although, as you know, quite a few Patent lawyers also do trademarks.
I would say that at the Bar you can usually spot a Vinerian or Eldon Scholar when you see one, but that's because they wear their learning un-lightly.
(edited 4 months ago)
Original post by Stiffy Byng
You are indeed right, as soft as my head, although, as you know, quite a few Patent lawyers also do trademarks.
I would say that at the Bar you can usually spot a Vinerian or Eldon Scholar when you see one, but that's because they wear their learning un-lightly.
I would say that at the Bar you can usually spot a Vinerian or Eldon Scholar when you see one, but that's because they wear their learning un-lightly.
lol
yh trade marks are hippy ********
Original post by chalks
I did a law degree in the mid-90s (!) and, on reflection, wish I had studied English Lit instead. I think I would have enjoyed the subject more and, perhaps more importantly, wouldn't have been swept-up on the law career "conveyor belt" which was (and still is) so prevalent. A different degree would have opened my eyes to other career options.
In 25 years of practice, I was never able to spot which solicitor had undertaken a law degree and which had done the conversion course. That's a reflection of what is actually involved in the job itself, particularly in mainstream corporate/commercial work. It reminds me of a quote from my original supervising partner who, referring to an excellent colleague of his, said "Bob is the best lawyer I've ever met: it's a just shame that all the law he knows could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a black market pen."
@Stiffy Byng : small point of order - I have always regarded trademarks as soft, not hard, IP? The latter designation usually being limited to patents?
In 25 years of practice, I was never able to spot which solicitor had undertaken a law degree and which had done the conversion course. That's a reflection of what is actually involved in the job itself, particularly in mainstream corporate/commercial work. It reminds me of a quote from my original supervising partner who, referring to an excellent colleague of his, said "Bob is the best lawyer I've ever met: it's a just shame that all the law he knows could be written on the back of a postage stamp with a black market pen."
@Stiffy Byng : small point of order - I have always regarded trademarks as soft, not hard, IP? The latter designation usually being limited to patents?
Although I shall never regret having a degree in history (and the degree comes in handy in my work as a barrister), there is a part of me that wishes I had undertaken a more profound legal education, at least at the outset.
I do not think that the PGDL is still as Mickey Mouse as it was when I did it. After three years at a very rigorous university with a high workload, I spent most of the Diploma year asleep or in the pub. The ensuing Bar School, back then, was just boring nonsense. I and most people I know crammed it in the last six weeks before the exams.
I started learning the law in pupillage. I had three stellar pupilmasters, all now eminent silks. In the mid to late 90s, after ten years in practice, I briefly considered going back to college to do a BCL (in those days you could do a BCL without having a law degree, now you can't), but I then thought "**** that for a game of soldiers" and carried on lawyering.
If I ever write the fantasy Doctoral thesis that I wish to write if I ever retire (of course I shall never write it), I might do something in the legal history line.
(edited 4 months ago)
Original post by ilks
Heyy,
For those people who have decided to or have already taken a Law Conversion course (or are taking it rn), what have your experiences been? I'm pretty sure only The University of Law offers it in England?
Will a law degree or a law conversion make me more employable and what are the pros and cons of both? Will taking a law conversion course be a setback? Just asking for some insight into the whole experience and what it can do for you, since I'm personally undecided between Law and English Literature (or politics) myself.
Thank youu
For those people who have decided to or have already taken a Law Conversion course (or are taking it rn), what have your experiences been? I'm pretty sure only The University of Law offers it in England?
Will a law degree or a law conversion make me more employable and what are the pros and cons of both? Will taking a law conversion course be a setback? Just asking for some insight into the whole experience and what it can do for you, since I'm personally undecided between Law and English Literature (or politics) myself.
Thank youu
Heyy!
Great question, and it’s awesome that you’re considering your options so thoughtfully. I’d be happy to shed some light on law conversion courses and what they can do for you!
The Postgraduate Diploma in Law (PGDL) is a fantastic option for those coming from a non-law background who want to transition into a legal career. It’s essentially a conversion course designed to teach you the foundations of law and prepare you for the next steps, whether that’s qualifying as a solicitor or barrister. It’s worth noting that The University of Law (ULaw) is one of the largest providers of the PGDL in England, and it has a great reputation for supporting students through this process.
A law degree and a law conversion course can both open doors, but it really depends on your career goals. If you’re interested in pursuing a career in law, the PGDL is a well-recognized and respected route. It’s designed to equip you with key legal knowledge and skills, and ULaw’s experienced lecturers provide excellent support to help you succeed.
•
Pros:
•
It’s a quicker pathway into law for non-law graduates, allowing you to fast-track your career.
•
You can progress to further legal training like the SQE or Bar Practice Course (BPC) after completing the PGDL.
•
It provides a strong foundation and transferable skills, making you a competitive candidate in the legal field.
•
Flexibility to study full-time or part-time, with January 2025 intakes open now (deadlines are 2nd January for full-time and 3rd January for part-time).
•
Cons:
•
It’s intense since it condenses the essentials of a law degree into a shorter timeframe.
•
It may feel like a “setback” if you’re unsure about committing to a legal career, but it’s worth it if law is your passion.
If you’re unsure, you could consider your long-term career aspirations. For example, do you see yourself as a lawyer, or would a degree in English Literature or Politics align better with your goals?
Good luck!
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