The Student Room Group

Cambridge course fails 55 of 77 standards

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8ekz2ell4do

"The University of Cambridge's veterinary school has been accused of overlooking racism and student welfare.
The course has had its professional accreditation downgraded following an investigation by the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons (RCVS).It found the course failed to meet 50 out of 77 accreditation standards.The university said it would immediately bring in external experts to address the issues raised."

Reply 1

Original post
by Muttley79
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8ekz2ell4do
"The University of Cambridge's veterinary school has been accused of overlooking racism and student welfare.
The course has had its professional accreditation downgraded following an investigation by the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons (RCVS).It found the course failed to meet 50 out of 77 accreditation standards.The university said it would immediately bring in external experts to address the issues raised."

And still it is one of the most coveted universities worldwide, people like what it represents far more than it actually is.
A flawed system that has resulted in mostly the rich always achieving 'highly' compared to everyone else when this is the actual standard.

Reply 2

The racism is not within the vet school - it is the school's handling of racism experienced at EMS placements that has been criticised. I think that is an important detail to call out to those who haven't read the full report.

Reply 3

Original post
by ReadingMum
The racism is not within the vet school - it is the school's handling of racism experienced at EMS placements that has been criticised. I think that is an important detail to call out to those who haven't read the full report.

True that it's important to make that distinction, but the fact remains that some BAME students do not feel that the vet school has done enough to protect them from racism on placements - these placements have not been blacklisted and are still available on the database for students to go to. This creates an unsafe environment where some students don't feel as valued as others simply because they're BAME.

Reply 4

I am sure there is much discussion on how best to handle this issue. Red flagging an entry gives students a heads up to avoid certain placements, blacklisting them to prevent every Cambridge student from going there will limit the pool of places generally and finding placements is already hard work (especially if there is some sort of coordination across all the vet schools), and removing them entirely means that there is nothing to Red flag. If it is a clinical placement then the RCVS whistleblower process should be used but if it is pre-clinical then what?

Reply 5

Original post
by thedogperson
True that it's important to make that distinction, but the fact remains that some BAME students do not feel that the vet school has done enough to protect them from racism on placements - these placements have not been blacklisted and are still available on the database for students to go to. This creates an unsafe environment where some students don't feel as valued as others simply because they're BAME.

It is not a problem just at Cambridge. The reality of a vet degree is that students have to pass weeks on EMS placements with farmers. Most vet students are female and most farmers are of a generation and mentality that dates from another age. These farmers are the placement providers but also the future clients so a balance has to be struck between protecting the student and teaching them how to deal with that kind of person. If you struck off every placement provider for sexist or racist behaviour, there wouldn’t be any left!! BUT the student should feel confident that if they can’t learn in the environment in which they are placed and that their physical or mental health is compromised, the university will take their complaints seriously and follow up with the placement provider. It is in this domain that the University of Cambridge was lacking.It should also be noted that unlike students who study medicine, vet students are responsible for finding their own placements and if the systems are like other vet schools many of the providers registered on the Cambridge database were added following a positive report from a student who carried out a placement there and the school has never had any direct contact with them.
One of my DC’s placements was on a farm where she slept in an un heated caravan in March for two weeks. She did minimum 16 hour days and was spoken badly to throughout the placement, BUT she learnt so much that she returned the folllowing year. In an ideal world she shouldn’t have had to put up with that kind of treatment, but we don’t live in an ideal world.

Reply 6

Original post
by stilllearning123
And still it is one of the most coveted universities worldwide, people like what it represents far more than it actually is.
A flawed system that has resulted in mostly the rich always achieving 'highly' compared to everyone else when this is the actual standard.

If you actually take the time to read the report the quality of its clinical teaching was rated as outstanding! It was the admin systems in place and some of the safeguarding procedures that were lacking. One of the failure points was the state of tyres on one of the vehicles which hardly impacts the quality of teaching but is a safety issue.
I’m not particularly a fan of Cambridge but glorifying it’s downfall just because you have a grudge against an elitist institution ( elitist in the academic sense and nothing to do with social class) without having taken the time to check the facts behind the news articles is to trample over the hundreds of students who are currently studying veterinary medicine there and are facing ten months if not more of uncertainty.

Reply 7

Original post
by Euapp
If you actually take the time to read the report the quality of its clinical teaching was rated as outstanding! It was the admin systems in place and some of the safeguarding procedures that were lacking. One of the failure points was the state of tyres on one of the vehicles which hardly impacts the quality of teaching but is a safety issue.
I’m not particularly a fan of Cambridge but glorifying it’s downfall just because you have a grudge against an elitist institution ( elitist in the academic sense and nothing to do with social class) without having taken the time to check the facts behind the news articles is to trample over the hundreds of students who are currently studying veterinary medicine there and are facing ten months if not more of uncertainty.

Ok? it still has failed 55/77, over 71% failure of its standards and you are trying to defend them?

Reply 8

Original post
by stilllearning123
Ok? it still has failed 55/77, over 71% failure of its standards and you are trying to defend them?

No. I’m just saying that anyone who has any experience of the veterinary medicine degree will know that controlling certain variables like placement providers is very difficult. Have you actually read the report so you know what criteria they failed on.?There is very little that actually criticises the teaching.
Cambridge is not the first vet school to have been taken to task but their collegiate system means that putting linear reporting procedures in place is more than complicated. So jubilatîng because a school that was recognised as providing outstanding clinical teaching by the RCVS may have to stop providing a course is something I find quite distasteful.
(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 9

Original post
by Euapp
No. I’m just saying that anyone who has any experience of the veterinary medicine degree will know that controlling certain variables like placement providers is very difficult. Have you actually read the report so you know what criteria they failed on.?There is very little that actually criticises the teaching.
Cambridge is not the first vet school to have been taken to task but their collegiate system means that putting linear reporting procedures in place is more than complicated. So jubilatîng because a school that was recognised as providing outstanding clinical teaching by the RCVS may have to stop providing a course is something I find quite distasteful.

I'm hardly jubilating, I'm just stating the fact that people covet the uni when this is the standards it is failing.
Neutral bystander here just putting a point of view that there does need to be a discussion on here ( if not on TSR, then where?)
Applicants/ their parents this year who receive more than one offer includingCambridge would want to know to make an informed decision

Reply 11

Original post
by MedMama
Neutral bystander here just putting a point of view that there does need to be a discussion on here ( if not on TSR, then where?)
Applicants/ their parents this year who receive more than one offer includingCambridge would want to know to make an informed decision

They definitely do. And if my child was starting out on their vet med career I would be very worried if the only offer they held was a Cambridge one, and if they held several offers I would probably advise that they took a less risky path because the loss of accreditation is a real problem, especially as the financial requirements necessary to regain the confidence of the RCVS is not necessarily going to be made available by the university.
Vet med is an expensive and loss making course and the powers that be at Cambridge are not certain that they wish to continue pumping funds into it.
BUT what I would like people to appreciate, if only for the sake of current students, is that it is NOT the quality of teaching that has been criticised but the safeguarding processes in place for the students. So whereas the teaching side of the vet med course at Cambridge obtained excellent results in the review, the administration was found lacking in a number of areas.
Todays students have enough on their plates with Exams, EMS and the worry of what employers are going to make of their degree without people making comments about the course and the university being racist etc. If these people had actually read the report they would know that the RCVS NEVER implied that. It quite simply said that EMS providers that had received negative reviews from BAME students were not being controlled or filtered out correctly but simply flagged on the systems.
This thread was created to ignite criticism of Cambridge. Those students that have applied to Cambridge have been supported on the vet med thread and are being provided with updates from the school’s current students as well as the university itself.

Reply 12

omg ts is foul

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