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definite article with proper names watch

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    .Hello, everybody! . In the openning sentence of his "Animal Farm" George Orwell says: "Mr. Jones,
    of the Manor Farm, had locked the hen-houses :", etc. My question is why he puts "the" before "Manor
    Farm" ? It seems unnecessary because specific reference here is made to a proper name of a unique
    object. Yet, "the" is used before "Manor Farm" consistently throghout the book. As the plot
    develops, this farm is renamed to "Animal Farm" which name then and any time thereafter is
    consistently refered to without any "the" in front of it. Why such a terrible inequality? After all
    both are proper names and of the same object. Yet the names are treated so differently! Futhermore,
    all other farm names in the book are likewise used with no "the" in front of them,
    e.g. "Foxwood" and "Pinchfield". Only "Manor Farm" stands apart in this respect. . We could think
    that "the" is a part of the name but apparently it's not because it is not capitalized. Also,
    a certain character -- Snowball -- paints out the old name "Manor Farm" over the farm's gate,
    not "the Manor Farm" and in its place he puts "Animal Farm", not "the Animal Farm" (See
    Chapter 2, just before "The Seven Commandments"). So "the" is not really a part of the farm's
    name. However, at the end of the book when the farm is restored to its original name, it's
    called "The Manor Farm" where "the" is now capitalized and is apperently included in the name.
    Finally, they drink a toast: "To the prosperity of The Manor Farm!" With this the book ends
    but not the mystery of "the"!!! . Can anybody see a ray of light in this hoplessly dark
    tunnel? Will he or she be willing to share the secrets of English article usage with me? .
    Regards, Vladimir

    "Vladimir" <[email protected]> burbled news:[email protected]:

    [q1]> .Hello, everybody! . In the openning sentence of his "Animal Farm" George Orwell says: "Mr. Jones,[/q1]
    [q1]> of the Manor Farm, had locked the hen-houses :", etc. My question is why he puts "the" before[/q1]
    [q1]> "Manor Farm" ? It seems unnecessary because specific reference here is made to a proper name of a[/q1]
    [q1]> unique object. Yet, "the" is used before "Manor Farm" consistently throghout the book. As the plot[/q1]
    [q1]> develops, this farm is renamed to "Animal Farm" which name then and any time thereafter is[/q1]
    [q1]> consistently refered to without any "the" in front of it. Why such a terrible inequality? After[/q1]
    [q1]> all both are proper names and of the same object. Yet the names are treated so differently![/q1]
    [q1]> Futhermore, all other farm names in the book are likewise used with no "the" in front of them,[/q1]
    [q1]> e.g. "Foxwood" and "Pinchfield". Only "Manor Farm" stands apart in this respect. . We could think[/q1]
    [q1]> that "the" is a part of the name but apparently it's not because it is not capitalized. Also, a[/q1]
    [q1]> certain character -- Snowball -- paints out the old name "Manor Farm" over the farm's gate, not[/q1]
    [q1]> "the Manor Farm" and in its place he puts "Animal Farm", not "the Animal Farm" (See Chapter 2,[/q1]
    [q1]> just before "The Seven Commandments"). So "the" is not really a part of the farm's name. However,[/q1]
    [q1]> at the end of the book when the farm is restored to its original name, it's called "The Manor[/q1]
    [q1]> Farm" where "the" is now capitalized and is apperently included in the name. Finally, they drink a[/q1]
    [q1]> toast: "To the prosperity of The Manor Farm!" With this the book ends but not the mystery of[/q1]
    [q1]> "the"!!! . Can anybody see a ray of light in this hoplessly dark tunnel? Will he or she be willing[/q1]
    [q1]> to share the secrets of English article usage with me? .[/q1]

    I think you'd have to ask Orwell or his editors and publishers why they did all that. But article
    usage is tricky even for native speakers, and just because an article comes before a proper name, as
    in "the Manor Farm" case, does not mean that there is something strange about it.

    People graduate from "the University of Illinois", "The University of Iowa", "MIT" or "the
    Massachusetts Institute of Technology", "Arizona State University", "Iowa State University",
    "Indiana University", and "Harvard University". Can you find a pattern here? I can't.

    --
    Franke: Grammar 1: Internalized rules for the spoken language. Grammar 2: Formal rules for the
    written language. Grammar 1 does not equal Grammar 2.

    CyberCypher wrote:
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> "Vladimir" <[email protected]> burbled news:[email protected]:[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]> > .Hello, everybody! . In the openning sentence of his "Animal Farm" George Orwell says: "Mr.[/q2]
    [q2]> > Jones, of the Manor Farm, had locked the hen-houses :", etc. My question is why he puts "the"[/q2]
    [q2]> > before "Manor Farm" ? It seems unnecessary because specific reference here is made to a proper[/q2]
    [q2]> > name of a unique object. Yet, "the" is used before "Manor Farm" consistently throghout the book.[/q2]
    [q2]> > As the plot develops, this farm is renamed to "Animal Farm" which name then and any time[/q2]
    [q2]> > thereafter is consistently refered to without any "the" in front of it. Why such a terrible[/q2]
    [q2]> > inequality? After all both are proper names and of the same object. Yet the names are treated so[/q2]
    [q2]> > differently! Futhermore, all other farm names in the book are likewise used with no "the" in[/q2]
    [q2]> > front of them, e.g. "Foxwood" and "Pinchfield". Only "Manor Farm" stands apart in this respect.[/q2]
    [q2]> > . We could think that "the" is a part of the name but apparently it's not because it is not[/q2]
    [q2]> > capitalized. Also, a certain character -- Snowball -- paints out the old name "Manor Farm" over[/q2]
    [q2]> > the farm's gate, not "the Manor Farm" and in its place he puts "Animal Farm", not "the Animal[/q2]
    [q2]> > Farm" (See Chapter 2, just before "The Seven Commandments"). So "the" is not really a part of[/q2]
    [q2]> > the farm's name. However, at the end of the book when the farm is restored to its original name,[/q2]
    [q2]> > it's called "The Manor Farm" where "the" is now capitalized and is apperently included in the[/q2]
    [q2]> > name. Finally, they drink a toast: "To the prosperity of The Manor Farm!" With this the book[/q2]
    [q2]> > ends but not the mystery of "the"!!! . Can anybody see a ray of light in this hoplessly dark[/q2]
    [q2]> > tunnel? Will he or she be willing to share the secrets of English article usage with me? .[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> I think you'd have to ask Orwell or his editors and publishers why they did all that. But article[/q1]
    [q1]> usage is tricky even for native speakers, and just because an article comes before a proper name,[/q1]
    [q1]> as in "the Manor Farm" case, does not mean that there is something strange about it.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> People graduate from "the University of Illinois", "The University of Iowa", "MIT" or "the[/q1]
    [q1]> Massachusetts Institute of Technology", "Arizona State University", "Iowa State University",[/q1]
    [q1]> "Indiana University", and "Harvard University". Can you find a pattern here? I can't.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    If the name of the place comes first ther's usually no article, if the type of institution comes
    first ther's an article. But MIT seems to be an exception (there's always an exception! ;-)), and I
    went to an institution called The City University (that's the full name) - TCU for short ("The City"
    refers to the City of London).

    Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

    Micahel Gavin <[email protected]> burbled news:[email protected]:

    [q1]> CyberCypher wrote:[/q1]
    [q2]>>[/q2]
    [...]

    [q2]>> People graduate from "the University of Illinois", "The University of Iowa", "MIT" or "the[/q2]
    [q2]>> Massachusetts Institute of Technology", "Arizona State University", "Iowa State University",[/q2]
    [q2]>> "Indiana University", and "Harvard University". Can you find a pattern here? I can't.[/q2]
    [q2]>>[/q2]
    [q1]> If the name of the place comes first ther's usually no article, if the type of institution comes[/q1]
    [q1]> first ther's an article. But MIT seems to be an exception (there's always an exception! ;-)), and[/q1]
    [q1]> I went to an institution called The City University (that's the full name) - TCU for short ("The[/q1]
    [q1]> City" refers to the City of London).[/q1]

    Please notice the differences between the articles in my list. I could have added "The University of
    Arizona" and a lot more unis that have the "the" capitalized. That was also part of the question.
    There are also "The City College of New York", "The City University of New York", "The Pennsylvania
    State University".

    --
    Franke: Grammar 1: Internalized rules for the spoken language. Grammar 2: Formal rules for the
    written language. Grammar 1 does not equal Grammar 2.

    CyberCypher wrote:
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Micahel Gavin <[email protected]> burbled news:[email protected]:[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]> > CyberCypher wrote:[/q2]
    [q2]> >>[/q2]
    [q1]> [...][/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]> >> People graduate from "the University of Illinois", "The University of Iowa", "MIT" or "the[/q2]
    [q2]> >> Massachusetts Institute of Technology", "Arizona State University", "Iowa State University",[/q2]
    [q2]> >> "Indiana University", and "Harvard University". Can you find a pattern here? I can't.[/q2]
    [q2]> >>[/q2]
    [q2]> > If the name of the place comes first ther's usually no article, if the type of institution comes[/q2]
    [q2]> > first ther's an article. But MIT seems to be an exception (there's always an exception! ;-)),[/q2]
    [q2]> > and I went to an institution called The City University (that's the full name) - TCU for short[/q2]
    [q2]> > ("The City" refers to the City of London).[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Please notice the differences between the articles in my list. I could have added "The University[/q1]
    [q1]> of Arizona" and a lot more unis that have the "the" capitalized. That was also part of the[/q1]
    [q1]> question. There are also "The City College of New York", "The City University of New York", "The[/q1]
    [q1]> Pennsylvania State University".[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    I suspect like many collocations it's very difficult to point to a rule but as a native speaker you
    sort of know if it's right or not. Not a great help to learners, though.

    Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

    On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:23:32 -0400, "Vladimir" <[email protected]> wrote:

    [q1]>.Hello, everybody! . In the openning sentence of his "Animal Farm" George Orwell says: "Mr. Jones,[/q1]
    [q1]>of the Manor Farm, had locked the hen-houses :", etc. My question is why he puts "the" before[/q1]
    [q1]>"Manor Farm" ? It seems unnecessary because specific reference here is made to a proper name of a[/q1]
    [q1]>unique object. Yet, "the" is used before "Manor Farm" consistently throghout the book. As the plot[/q1]
    [q1]>develops, this farm is renamed to "Animal Farm" which name then and any time thereafter is[/q1]
    [q1]>consistently refered to without any "the" in front of it. Why such a terrible inequality? After all[/q1]
    [q1]>both are proper names and of the same object. Yet the names are treated so differently! Futhermore,[/q1]
    [q1]>all other farm names in the book are likewise used with no "the" in front of them,[/q1]
    [q1]>e.g. "Foxwood" and "Pinchfield". Only "Manor Farm" stands apart in this respect. .[/q1]

    In the Middle Ages, the Manor Farm was the farm attached to the Manor. The Manor was where the Lord
    of the Manor lived (ie the principal ruler of the area). By using 'the', Orwell is using the concept
    of 'the Manor' to emphazise that his story is an allegory about the Russian Revolution and not just
    'an animal story'.

    (TS Elliot is supposed to have turned down publishing the work because 'Animal stories are not very
    popular'.)

    Pearson Brown www.better-english.com

    [email protected] (Pearson Brown) burbled news:[email protected]:

    [...]

    [q1]> (TS Elliot is supposed to have turned down publishing the work because 'Animal stories are not[/q1]
    [q1]> very popular'.)[/q1]

    And that is why he wrote and published a book full of verses about cats.

    --
    Franke: Grammar 1: Internalized rules for the spoken language. Grammar 2: Formal rules for the
    written language. Grammar 1 does not equal Grammar 2.

    Pearson Brown wrote in message <[email protected] fr>...
    [q1]>On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:23:32 -0400, "Vladimir" <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>In the Middle Ages, the Manor Farm was the farm attached to the Manor. The Manor was where the Lord[/q1]
    [q1]>of the Manor lived (ie the principal ruler of the area). By using 'the', Orwell is using the[/q1]
    [q1]>concept of 'the Manor' to emphazise that his story is an allegory about the Russian Revolution and[/q1]
    [q1]>not just 'an animal story'.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    O.K. This is very convincing but explains only half of it. . The unexplained half is this:
    throughout the book "the Manor Farm" is used with the lower case "the" but at the very end it
    is called "The Manor Farm". I quote: "Henceforward the farm was to be known as 'The Manor Farm'
    -- which was its correct and original name. ... To the prosperity of The Manor Farm!" If "The
    Manor Farm" is indeed the correct name why it is not used except at the very end? . I have a
    gut feeling that this switch is there on purpose and supplies a shade of meaning which I'm not
    able to grasp. Will you kindly explain this one too? . Much obliged, Vladimir Rubstein.

    [q2]>> (TS Elliot is supposed to have turned down publishing the work because 'Animal stories are not[/q2]
    [q2]>> very popular'.)[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>And that is why he wrote and published a book full of verses about cats.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>--[/q1]
    The phrase attributed to him is "It's impossible to sell animal stories in the USA."

    Look at

    http://www.writersservices.com/wsmag/m_rejection.htm

    for other strange comments about famous books.

    I found this comment from Malcolm Bradbury,

    One interesting and revealing letter was from T. S. Eliot, rejecting the book in his capacity as an
    editorial spokesman for Faber & Faber: We have no conviction he wrote that this is the right point
    of view from which to criticise the political situation at the present time Eliot acknowledged the
    Swiftian power and skill of the work, and saw that it came from someone of Trotskyite sympathies,
    but he felt that its form of satirical indignation was too negative for the times.

    Of course Elliot only published his cat poems to tie in with the musical.

    TS Eliot was long dead before the musical 'Cats' was produced.

    Pearson Brown wrote:

    [q2]> >[/q2]
    [q2]> >> (TS Elliot is supposed to have turned down publishing the work because 'Animal stories are not[/q2]
    [q2]> >> very popular'.)[/q2]
    [q2]> >[/q2]
    [q2]> >And that is why he wrote and published a book full of verses about cats.[/q2]
    [q2]> >[/q2]
    [q2]> >--[/q2]
    [q1]> The phrase attributed to him is "It's impossible to sell animal stories in the USA."[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Look at[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> http://www.writersservices.com/wsmag/m_rejection.htm[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> for other strange comments about famous books.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> I found this comment from Malcolm Bradbury,[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> One interesting and revealing letter was from T. S. Eliot, rejecting the book in his capacity as[/q1]
    [q1]> an editorial spokesman for Faber & Faber: We have no conviction he wrote that this is the right[/q1]
    [q1]> point of view from which to criticise the political situation at the present time Eliot[/q1]
    [q1]> acknowledged the Swiftian power and skill of the work, and saw that it came from someone of[/q1]
    [q1]> Trotskyite sympathies, but he felt that its form of satirical indignation was too negative for[/q1]
    [q1]> the times.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Of course Elliot only published his cat poems to tie in with the musical.[/q1]

    You can't even spell his name right. Is that a joke too?

    Pearson Brown wrote:

    [q1]> On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:52:48 GMT, John Ramsay <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]> >TS Eliot was long dead before the musical 'Cats' was produced.[/q2]
    [q2]> >[/q2]
    [q2]> >[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> Wow, you don't say. Did you not consider that perhaps I was making a JOKE?[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]> >Pearson Brown wrote:[/q2]
    [q2]> >>[/q2]
    [q2]> >> Of course Elliot only published his cat poems to tie in with the musical.[/q2]
    [q2]> >[/q2]

    On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:15:48 GMT, John Ramsay <[email protected]> wrote:

    [q1]>You can't even spell his name right. Is that a joke too?[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    Are you sure about this? There were definitely two Ls when Elliot appeared in the film "ET".

    PPeeaarrssoonn BBrroowwnn

    wwwwww..bbeetteerr--eenngglliisshh..ccoomm
 
 
 
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