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Proof questions

Would this be enough to prove the assertion, as the example answer seems to take it a step further bit I don't believe that it is needed

Reply 1

Original post
by Fesdces
Would this be enough to prove the assertion, as the example answer seems to take it a step further bit I don't believe that it is needed

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Reply 2

How do you know that 8b+7 isnt a sqaure number for some value of b?

Reply 3

Original post
by mqb2766
How do you know that 8b+7 isnt a sqaure number for some value of b?

So when doing proof by contradiction you have to show that for all values of b ,8b+7 isnt a square number

Reply 4

Original post
by Fesdces
So when doing proof by contradiction you have to show that for all values of b ,8b+7 isnt a square number

A proof has to be clear reasoning where you fully justify your steps. So in the model solution, they make the odd value observation and go ahead with that to arrive at a clear contradiction, so n is not an integer. Your last part is more of a proof by convenience ("It would be very nice if it were true, so...") or ...
https://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/EMT668/EMAT6680.F99/Challen/proof/proof.html

As a bit of reflection / the idea behind the question, its clearly about square numbers and one way to handle the 8b would be to analyse the remainder of square numbers when theyre divided by 8 (so simple mod/congruence arithmetic). Its well known/easy to show that odd square numbers have a remainder of 1 when divided by 8, so the right hand side couldnt be 3, 5 or 7 (this question). But if it had been a^2 - 8b = 1, then 3,1 would be an obvious solution (by inspection).
(edited 1 year ago)

Reply 5

Original post
by mqb2766
A proof has to be clear reasoning where you fully justify your steps. So in the model solution, they make the odd value observation and go ahead with that to arrive at a clear contradiction, so n is not an integer. Yours is more of a proof by convenience
https://jwilson.coe.uga.edu/EMT668/EMAT6680.F99/Challen/proof/proof.html
As a bit of reflection / the idea behind the question, its clearly about square numbers and one way to handle the 8b would be to analyse the remainder of square numbers when theyre divided by 8 (so simple mod/congruence arithmetic). Its well known/easy to show that odd square numbers have a remainder of 1 when divided by 8, so the right hand side couldnt be 3, 5 or 7 (this question). But if it had been a^2 - 8b = 1, then 3,1 would be an obvious solution (by inspection).

Thank you very much, I do A level edexcel maths so I believe for me thats not on my specification which makes sense as to why I didnt get it.

Reply 6

Original post
by mqb2766
Sure, the remainder part is more for thinking about such questions and isnt that different from the model solution. Remainder after dividing by 4 is similar. So 7 is remainder 3, 8b is remainder 0 for all b and for a odd so a=2n+1 then
(2n+1)^2 = 4n^2+4n+1
so thats remainder 1 when divided by 4, not remainder 3. So contradiction.
The only real difference with the posted proof is that theyve divided by 2 instead of 4 and pulled the odd argument from somewhere, rather than explicitly reasoning about remainders (which is taught in y4ish?).

You dont have to be a tw*t about it, my initial point was just if leaving what I did was enough. Its not, I understood the second proof I didnt need that explaining.

Reply 7

Original post
by Fesdces
You dont have to be a tw*t about it, my initial point was just if leaving what I did was enough. Its not, I understood the second proof I didnt need that explaining.

Ill drop out. I was explaining the idea behind the question / proof in the previous post. Simply that.

Reply 8

Original post
by mqb2766
Ill drop out. I was explaining the idea behind the question / proof in the previous post. Simply that.

Saying its year 4 stuff is so condescending, just a bit weird

Reply 9

Original post
by Fesdces
Saying its year 4 stuff is so condescending, just a bit weird

Its simply how it is. You do divisors / remainders in about y4 or 5. You dont do them at all in y7-13, but it doesnt mean theyre not a useful way to think about problems like this (at a level). It has some similarities with the model solution which I pointed out, though Ive deleted the post and wont be replying further.

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