Am I right or wrong in thinking this?
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Am I right or wrong in thinking that Oxbridge students who went to private schools are not particularly academically special? By this I mean, they may be confident and have achieved great results but only because of their privileged education and greater resources - if they didn’t have such things, they may not have done so well and so may not be inherently gifted.
Therefore, they are not special in an academic context in the same way someone who was very poor but got top grades and got into Oxbridge is?
Therefore, they are not special in an academic context in the same way someone who was very poor but got top grades and got into Oxbridge is?
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Reply 1
10
Original post
by m_040106Am I right or wrong in thinking that Oxbridge students who went to private schools are not particularly academically special? By this I mean, they may be confident and have achieved great results but only because of their privileged education and greater resources - if they didn’t have such things, they may not have done so well and so may not be inherently gifted.
Therefore, they are not special in an academic context in the same way someone who was very poor but got top grades and got into Oxbridge is?
Therefore, they are not special in an academic context in the same way someone who was very poor but got top grades and got into Oxbridge is?
So the UK system is broken
Universities should admit students based on skills and ability.
Instead, many are not even fluent in English and rely on translators.
Reply 2
Whilst I see and understand the line of argument, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about Oxbridge (judging by your various recent threads and the content and tone of them). At the end of the day, there's little way of knowing/assessing how a privately-educated person would have fared at a bog-standard comprehensive school, so there's not really much use in musing on that, imho. It's also worth noting that not all private schools are top-class or instilling that much confidence in their pupils. I did mock Oxbridge interviews with some rather shoddy (imho) private schools over a 10-year period. So the grass isn't automatically hugely greener on the other side...
Reply 3
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Original post
by m_040106Am I right or wrong in thinking that Oxbridge students who went to private schools are not particularly academically special? By this I mean, they may be confident and have achieved great results but only because of their privileged education and greater resources - if they didn’t have such things, they may not have done so well and so may not be inherently gifted.
Therefore, they are not special in an academic context in the same way someone who was very poor but got top grades and got into Oxbridge is?
Therefore, they are not special in an academic context in the same way someone who was very poor but got top grades and got into Oxbridge is?
I think you are partially wrong in thinking that. Of course having access to better education helps. But you still have to put in the work. I don’t know what you get from degrading the work that students put in to get into a top university (regardless of their background).
Again, access to better education is a factor of course, but it’s not the only factor.
Reply 4
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Original post
by The_Lonely_GoatherdWhilst I see and understand the line of argument, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about Oxbridge (judging by your various recent threads and the content and tone of them). At the end of the day, there's little way of knowing/assessing how a privately-educated person would have fared at a bog-standard comprehensive school, so there's not really much use in musing on that, imho. It's also worth noting that not all private schools are top-class or instilling that much confidence in their pupils. I did mock Oxbridge interviews with some rather shoddy (imho) private schools over a 10-year period. So the grass isn't automatically hugely greener on the other side...
Reply 5
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Original post
by FreeyouI am confused to what this has to do with the topic at hand… I think is something very interesting to explore.
I’m also a student who came to England with poor English. My spoken and written English has improved immensely in the past couple of years, I’m taking a year off, and one of the many reason I did that was to improve my English to make sure I was ready to tackle university here in England in the best way possible.
I learned many languages, if you enter a country with poor undetanding of the language doesn’t mean that you will never understand the language. In my experience it took me less than a year to be able to comfortably understand what my teachers were saying in lessons, I did my A levels and they went quite well, I also met many international students that are doing amazingly. Of course not everyone is like that, but it feels a bit unfair to paint all students who come from foreign nations with such a broad brush.
So I don’t really understand how sharing this helps answer OP’s initial question. Also correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought UK universities always had a big number of international students. So much so that now they are struggling in part because they are getting less now.
Original post
by FreeyouIn the last 4 years, woke ideology, gender, background, ethnic minority , and a high percentage of students from state schools imposed by the government have become requirements in the admission process.
When did that get brought in by the government in 2021? I must have missed the memo
Reply 7
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Original post
by FreeyouIn the last 4 years, woke ideology, gender, background, ethnic minority , and a high percentage of students from state schools imposed by the government have become requirements in the admission process.
So the UK system is broken
Universities should admit students based on skills and ability.
Instead, many are not even fluent in English and rely on translators.
So the UK system is broken
Universities should admit students based on skills and ability.
Instead, many are not even fluent in English and rely on translators.
I agree that unis should admit students based on skills and ability. But knowing little English doesn’t mean you don’t have the skills and ability.
Let me let you in on a secret… languages can be learnt. I know, shocking!
And in my experience English is not super hard to learn (compared to other languages I know and I’m learning). Of course you have to try hard enough
Reply 8
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Dear Student, the BBC article exposes and confirms what is happening!
It’s no secret! Many students lack the minimum basics of English, so they attend undergraduate and postgraduate courses with a translator in hand! They understand little to nothing of what teachers and classmates are saying, which humiliates the professors and lowers the grades of those working with them in teams (and there are many complaints). As a result, many obtain degrees, but their preparation in fields like medicine, engineering, and physics will reflect what they have not understood!
The BBC reports that ‘thousands of essays are purchased online.’
On the UCAS website and university websites, you will find the obligatory ‘requirements’ that INTERNATIONAL students must meet to be admitted. These include English language certifications: IELTS with a minimum score of 6 or higher; many universities require 7! But if you attend university, you’ll see how many students actually have a ‘good’ level of English!
Read the BBC article and others on different media!
Happy reading!
It’s no secret! Many students lack the minimum basics of English, so they attend undergraduate and postgraduate courses with a translator in hand! They understand little to nothing of what teachers and classmates are saying, which humiliates the professors and lowers the grades of those working with them in teams (and there are many complaints). As a result, many obtain degrees, but their preparation in fields like medicine, engineering, and physics will reflect what they have not understood!
The BBC reports that ‘thousands of essays are purchased online.’
On the UCAS website and university websites, you will find the obligatory ‘requirements’ that INTERNATIONAL students must meet to be admitted. These include English language certifications: IELTS with a minimum score of 6 or higher; many universities require 7! But if you attend university, you’ll see how many students actually have a ‘good’ level of English!
Read the BBC article and others on different media!
Happy reading!
Original post
by FreeyouDear Student, the BBC article exposes and confirms what is happening!
It’s no secret! Many students lack the minimum basics of English, so they attend undergraduate and postgraduate courses with a translator in hand! They understand little to nothing of what teachers and classmates are saying, which humiliates the professors and lowers the grades of those working with them in teams (and there are many complaints). As a result, many obtain degrees, but their preparation in fields like medicine, engineering, and physics will reflect what they have not understood!
The BBC reports that ‘thousands of essays are purchased online.’
On the UCAS website and university websites, you will find the obligatory ‘requirements’ that INTERNATIONAL students must meet to be admitted. These include English language certifications: IELTS with a minimum score of 6 or higher; many universities require 7! But if you attend university, you’ll see how many students actually have a ‘good’ level of English!
Read the BBC article and others on different media!
Happy reading!
It’s no secret! Many students lack the minimum basics of English, so they attend undergraduate and postgraduate courses with a translator in hand! They understand little to nothing of what teachers and classmates are saying, which humiliates the professors and lowers the grades of those working with them in teams (and there are many complaints). As a result, many obtain degrees, but their preparation in fields like medicine, engineering, and physics will reflect what they have not understood!
The BBC reports that ‘thousands of essays are purchased online.’
On the UCAS website and university websites, you will find the obligatory ‘requirements’ that INTERNATIONAL students must meet to be admitted. These include English language certifications: IELTS with a minimum score of 6 or higher; many universities require 7! But if you attend university, you’ll see how many students actually have a ‘good’ level of English!
Read the BBC article and others on different media!
Happy reading!
I’m not asking about English language requirements for international students.
I’m asking about this rule you state was brought in in 2021 by the government:
“In the last 4 years, woke ideology, gender, background, ethnic minority , and a high percentage of students from state schools imposed by the government have become requirements in the admission process.”
Can you please link to this rule?
Reply 10
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Original post
by m_040106Am I right or wrong in thinking that Oxbridge students who went to private schools are not particularly academically special? By this I mean, they may be confident and have achieved great results but only because of their privileged education and greater resources - if they didn’t have such things, they may not have done so well and so may not be inherently gifted.
Therefore, they are not special in an academic context in the same way someone who was very poor but got top grades and got into Oxbridge is?
Therefore, they are not special in an academic context in the same way someone who was very poor but got top grades and got into Oxbridge is?
Many private school people succeed simply because they have the gloss / polish / confidence / lack of doubt that those schools and their family connections have given them. No - they are not 'brighter', and having taught in various Unis both here and in Australia, my experience is that they often don't work very hard and often just expect things to be handed to them. Give me state-school students every time - they usually appreciate the privilege of being at a top Uni, and willingly grasp those opportunities, and they 'join in' more as students, and contribute more to societies and clubs. And they don't email me a midnight expecting an immediate response to a question that they can work out for themselves.
Reply 11
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Original post
by anonycatt I am confused to what this has to do with the topic at hand… I think is something very interesting to explore.
I’m also a student who came to England with poor English. My spoken and written English has improved immensely in the past couple of years, I’m taking a year off, and one of the many reason I did that was to improve my English to make sure I was ready to tackle university here in England in the best way possible.
I learned many languages, if you enter a country with poor undetanding of the language doesn’t mean that you will never understand the language. In my experience it took me less than a year to be able to comfortably understand what my teachers were saying in lessons, I did my A levels and they went quite well, I also met many international students that are doing amazingly. Of course not everyone is like that, but it feels a bit unfair to paint all students who come from foreign nations with such a broad brush.
So I don’t really understand how sharing this helps answer OP’s initial question. Also correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought UK universities always had a big number of international students. So much so that now they are struggling in part because they are getting less now.
I’m also a student who came to England with poor English. My spoken and written English has improved immensely in the past couple of years, I’m taking a year off, and one of the many reason I did that was to improve my English to make sure I was ready to tackle university here in England in the best way possible.
I learned many languages, if you enter a country with poor undetanding of the language doesn’t mean that you will never understand the language. In my experience it took me less than a year to be able to comfortably understand what my teachers were saying in lessons, I did my A levels and they went quite well, I also met many international students that are doing amazingly. Of course not everyone is like that, but it feels a bit unfair to paint all students who come from foreign nations with such a broad brush.
So I don’t really understand how sharing this helps answer OP’s initial question. Also correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought UK universities always had a big number of international students. So much so that now they are struggling in part because they are getting less now.
I read the article (I should have done that earlier) I still stand by what I said, I think the quote you took painted quite a broad negative impression of students who come from oversees and you initial post make it sound like students from oversees with little English are a problem.
After reading through the article I undetand what you were getting at. And I agree it’s concerning to have students who don’t even bother to learn the language.
Reply 12
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Original post
by anonycatt I agree that unis should admit students based on skills and ability. But knowing little English doesn’t mean you don’t have the skills and ability.
Let me let you in on a secret… languages can be learnt. I know, shocking!
And in my experience English is not super hard to learn (compared to other languages I know and I’m learning). Of course you have to try hard enough
Let me let you in on a secret… languages can be learnt. I know, shocking!
And in my experience English is not super hard to learn (compared to other languages I know and I’m learning). Of course you have to try hard enough
And how do you expect to understand a lecture in medicine, engineering, or dentistry? With a translator? How dare you claim the right to a degree and perhaps to treat others, to be a teacher, a dentist? This goes far beyond legality!
A degree is a serious matter, and you graduate in courses you can understand! The media has already exposed this!
Reply 13
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Original post
by anonycatt I read the article (I should have done that earlier) I still stand by what I said, I think the quote you took painted quite a broad negative impression of students who come from oversees and you initial post make it sound like students from oversees with little English are a problem.
After reading through the article I undetand what you were getting at. And I agree it’s concerning to have students who don’t even bother to learn the language.
After reading through the article I undetand what you were getting at. And I agree it’s concerning to have students who don’t even bother to learn the language.
And if this is true. I’m a bit disappointed in unis that overlook all that just for the money
Reply 14
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Original post
by FreeyouAnd how do you expect to understand a lecture in medicine, engineering, or dentistry? With a translator? How dare you claim the right to a degree and perhaps to treat others, to be a teacher, a dentist? This goes far beyond legality!
A degree is a serious matter, and you graduate in courses you can understand! The media has already exposed this!
A degree is a serious matter, and you graduate in courses you can understand! The media has already exposed this!
Why are you shouting.
Reply 15
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Original post
by McGingerWhy are you shouting.
I don’t think @Freeyou means to shout. If I can give a suggestion. Maybe, @Freeyou, do not write your post in bolded letters. It makes it seem like lì are shouting. And it’s not pleasant thing to read trough that
Original post
by FreeyouAnd how do you expect to understand a lecture in medicine, engineering, or dentistry? With a translator? How dare you claim the right to a degree and perhaps to treat others, to be a teacher, a dentist? This goes far beyond legality!
A degree is a serious matter, and you graduate in courses you can understand! The media has already exposed this!
A degree is a serious matter, and you graduate in courses you can understand! The media has already exposed this!
That article is about students on business masters degrees. Not medicine, engineering or dentistry.
Reply 17
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Original post
by FreeyouAnd how do you expect to understand a lecture in medicine, engineering, or dentistry? With a translator? How dare you claim the right to a degree and perhaps to treat others, to be a teacher, a dentist? This goes far beyond legality!
A degree is a serious matter, and you graduate in courses you can understand! The media has already exposed this!
A degree is a serious matter, and you graduate in courses you can understand! The media has already exposed this!
I agree that that shouldn’t happen. I a believer that if you go live or study in another country you should at least bother to learn the language.
Reply 18
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Original post
by anonycatt I read the article (I should have done that earlier) I still stand by what I said, I think the quote you took painted quite a broad negative impression of students who come from oversees and you initial post make it sound like students from oversees with little English are a problem.
After reading through the article I undetand what you were getting at. And I agree it’s concerning to have students who don’t even bother to learn the language.
After reading through the article I undetand what you were getting at. And I agree it’s concerning to have students who don’t even bother to learn the language.
Students who do not speak English and as the bbc say ‘ bought mill essay ‘! However media have reported the issue !
Reply 19
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Original post
by FreeyouStudents who do not speak English and as the bbc say ‘ bought mill essay ‘! However media have reported the issue !
This is an issues with the system. Seems to be caused by universities prioritising the money those students bring in.
Ik many students who come from abroad and worked so hard to learn the language did well in their exams and went off to uni. So it was disappointing to learn that some student don’t even try to do that.
(edited 1 year ago)
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