Law or Geography degree then conversion course?
To be clear, my end goal is to get a vacation scheme and a training contract at a city firm.
Getting into law school is much harder than getting into geography, for me personally, and I question myself whether I can pull off a law degree unlike a geography degree.
My question is whether I should apply for law or geography? Will my chances of getting VC and TC be lower if I will apply as a non-law student?
Getting into law school is much harder than getting into geography, for me personally, and I question myself whether I can pull off a law degree unlike a geography degree.
My question is whether I should apply for law or geography? Will my chances of getting VC and TC be lower if I will apply as a non-law student?
Reply 1
11
No disadvantage in terms of VC/TC applications if you go down the non-law & GDL conversion - the only thing to bear in mind is the extra year of study and the cost of the GDL itself
Also worth flagging that if you're targeting city firms for TCs, then notwithstanding geography courses tend to be less competitive to apply for than law, you'll still want to ensure your A levels grades are high/very high so those future applications are as strong as possible.
Also worth flagging that if you're targeting city firms for TCs, then notwithstanding geography courses tend to be less competitive to apply for than law, you'll still want to ensure your A levels grades are high/very high so those future applications are as strong as possible.
Reply 2
There is no easy route into the law. Study any subject you like at university, but if you don't think that you could manage a law degree, how will you deal with a PGDL and/ or the SQE?
It is best to study a subject which you like, not one you which you incorrectly assume may open an easier route to a job.
Why do you want to work in a City law firm?
It is best to study a subject which you like, not one you which you incorrectly assume may open an easier route to a job.
Why do you want to work in a City law firm?
Reply 3
Original post
by matilda04in my opinion, if you know you want to do law, just do it! doing a conversion isn’t much easier than just doing straight law, besides why spend 3 years doing a subject you know you don’t want to do a career in
A degree need not just be about getting a job. Learning is its own reward.
Reply 4
13
Original post
by Stiffy ByngThere is no easy route into the law. Study any subject you like at university, but if you don't think that you could manage a law degree, how will you deal with a PGDL and/ or the SQE?
It is best to study a subject which you like, not one you which you incorrectly assume may open an easier route to a job.
Why do you want to work in a City law firm?
It is best to study a subject which you like, not one you which you incorrectly assume may open an easier route to a job.
Why do you want to work in a City law firm?
I like the work environment there, and the fact that I can get to meet a lot of new people. Also, the salary is promising which will allow me to pay off student debt faster than working in a non-city firm.
Reply 5
Original post
by anastasiaveda9I like the work environment there, and the fact that I can get to meet a lot of new people. Also, the salary is promising which will allow me to pay off student debt faster than working in a non-city firm.
What do you know of the work environment? Do you really like working seventy hours a week, leaving the office long after midnight, and giving up weekends? Do you know what the work involves? Pursuit of money alone may take you down the wrong path.
Reply 6
13
Original post
by Stiffy ByngWhat do you know of the work environment? Do you really like working seventy hours a week, leaving the office long after midnight, and giving up weekends? Do you know what the work involves? Pursuit of money alone may take you down the wrong path.
May I ask what your employment occupation is? I appreciate your care, but I also want to ensure that I am speaking with a person with relevant expertise and experience
Reply 7
Original post
by anastasiaveda9May I ask what your employment occupation is? I appreciate your care, but I also want to ensure that I am speaking with a person with relevant expertise and experience
I am a commercial barrister. I have also been a partner in an international law firm.
Reply 8
13
Original post
by Stiffy ByngI am a commercial barrister. I have also been a partner in an international law firm.
What is your experience of this job then?
Reply 9
Original post
by anastasiaveda9What is your experience of this job then?
About thirty eight years.
(edited 9 months ago)
Reply 10
13
Original post
by Stiffy ByngAbout thirty eight years.
Thank you
Reply 11
The demanding workplace culture of large law firms is well known. Some firms now set annual billing targets of over two thousand hours. Not all hours at work are billable hours, and lawyers have to spend long hours at work to produce sufficient billable hours to meet the billing target.
Reply 12
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jul/27/starting-salaries-are-180000-but-do-young-lawyers-believe-the-hours-stress-and-burnout-are-worth-it#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20hours%20that%20associates%20have,Kirkland%20%26%20Ellis%20topping%20the%20table.
https://www.legalcheek.com/2023/10/revealed-law-firms-average-start-and-finish-times-2024/
https://www.legalcheek.com/2023/10/revealed-law-firms-average-start-and-finish-times-2024/
Reply 13
14
Can I please urge all aspiring City trainees to read those articles. There was also a particularly eye-opening article in The Times a little while back, although that's probably behind a paywall.
I don't intend to dissuade people from pursuing a legal career in the City: it can be brilliant and hugely rewarding (in all senses of the word). But please go into it with your eyes open. The hours and pressure are brutal. Many of you will, understandably, say that you're used to working incredibly hard through your time at University and the pressure to succeed can be immense. That doesn't, however, come close to the unrelenting demands of you in these roles. Law firms aren't throwing around six figure salaries to young graduates for no reason: they expect their pound of flesh.
I've posted about this on other threads, and don't intend to repeat myself here unless that would be helpful. The key difference in my mind, between Uni pressures and this working environment, is the utter lack of control you have over your workload and own time. The stories of cancelled holidays, all-nighters, abandoned evening and weekend plans, substance dependence and mental health issues are not urban myths. If you accept the premise that these firms will "own" you, and your time, in exchange for a substantial salary then go for it: but you need to recognise that this is the deal you're striking.
I don't intend to dissuade people from pursuing a legal career in the City: it can be brilliant and hugely rewarding (in all senses of the word). But please go into it with your eyes open. The hours and pressure are brutal. Many of you will, understandably, say that you're used to working incredibly hard through your time at University and the pressure to succeed can be immense. That doesn't, however, come close to the unrelenting demands of you in these roles. Law firms aren't throwing around six figure salaries to young graduates for no reason: they expect their pound of flesh.
I've posted about this on other threads, and don't intend to repeat myself here unless that would be helpful. The key difference in my mind, between Uni pressures and this working environment, is the utter lack of control you have over your workload and own time. The stories of cancelled holidays, all-nighters, abandoned evening and weekend plans, substance dependence and mental health issues are not urban myths. If you accept the premise that these firms will "own" you, and your time, in exchange for a substantial salary then go for it: but you need to recognise that this is the deal you're striking.
Reply 14
It strikes me as a Faustian bargain, although with some chance of escaping Mephistopheles' snare if you make partner. I should add, however, that the pressure does not end with partnership. Even equity partners will be pushed out if they and their teams don't perform well financially.
The pressure at the Bar is also heavy, but, subject to client demands, you do at least get to choose when you work and when you don't.
I don't think that the culture of large law firms is particularly healthy. I am a consultant to a disputes-only boutique law firm in London. One of the Associates there left a large firm because of the work culture. He now earns less but has a better life, and more autonomy. My partner's son recently started at a large US law firm's London office. He rarely leaves the office before midnight. He isn't having a good time. He is not lacking in work ethic or resilience - he graduated from Chicago and then Cambridge with top marks.
The pressure at the Bar is also heavy, but, subject to client demands, you do at least get to choose when you work and when you don't.
I don't think that the culture of large law firms is particularly healthy. I am a consultant to a disputes-only boutique law firm in London. One of the Associates there left a large firm because of the work culture. He now earns less but has a better life, and more autonomy. My partner's son recently started at a large US law firm's London office. He rarely leaves the office before midnight. He isn't having a good time. He is not lacking in work ethic or resilience - he graduated from Chicago and then Cambridge with top marks.
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