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How many A-levels should I take to get into Oxbridge

Hi
I’m currently studying 4 A-levels (mathematics, English literature, history and economics) as well as an EPQ but I’m considering dropping English literature. I am hoping to study PPE at Oxford therefore, I’m worried that dropping an A-level may jeopardize my chances of getting into Oxford especially as I do go to a private school. In short I’m asking if 3 A-levels and an EPQ is enough for a place at Oxford.

Thank You

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Reply 1

Original post
by Vxcky.lxn
Hi
I’m currently studying 4 A-levels (mathematics, English literature, history and economics) as well as an EPQ but I’m considering dropping English literature. I am hoping to study PPE at Oxford therefore, I’m worried that dropping an A-level may jeopardize my chances of getting into Oxford especially as I do go to a private school. In short I’m asking if 3 A-levels and an EPQ is enough for a place at Oxford.
Thank You

Taking four A levels will confer no advantage, and the extra workload and stress of taking four may reduce your chances of doing well in three A levels.

Being at a private school confers an advantage, not a disadvantage. Approximately 30% of the places at Oxford and Cambridge are obtained by the roughly 8% of UK school pupils who attend private schools (about 16% at sixth form).

Reply 2

PS: I suggest that you drop English, but still read widely in the canon, for life-enhancement.

Reply 3

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
Taking four A levels will confer no advantage, and the extra workload and stress of taking four may reduce your chances of doing well in three A levels.
Being at a private school confers an advantage, not a disadvantage. Approximately 30% of the places at Oxford and Cambridge are obtained by the roughly 8% of UK school pupils who attend private schools (about 16% at sixth form).

Private schools do NOT confer an advantage - it's a fallacy. They just are less aware of the weakness of some degress offered by Oxbridge these days and the 'push' of parents who are blinded by the past.

Reply 4

Original post
by Muttley79
Private schools do NOT confer an advantage - it's a fallacy. They just are less aware of the weakness of some degress offered by Oxbridge these days and the 'push' of parents who are blinded by the past.


When I say "advantage", I am referring to the following: roughly 8% of all UK students (approximately 16% of sixth formers) attend private schools. That group obtains just under 30% of the undergraduate places at Oxford and Cambridge. Of the roughly 16% of students who attend private sixth forms, only some smaller percentage (varying from school to school) apply to Oxford and Cambridge, so the degree of disproportionate success is even greater than 16% of the student group getting 30% of the available places.

The advantage I refer to is a competitive advantage in obtaining undergraduate places at Oxford and Cambridge. Whether obtaining such places is worthwhile, as some may think, or a silly waste of time, as others may think, is not the point. I am not referring to advantage in terms of likelihood of getting into White's, the MCC, or marrying a Duke or Duchess.

I raised the point about competitive advantage on entry to the terrible two because it appeared that the OP might have mistakenly believed the line plugged by The Times and The Telegraph that Oxford and Cambridge unfairly discriminate against private school students. They don't. If they did, under 16% of the places would go to private school applicants. The media line is designed to make middle class parents feel aggrieved about an imaginary unfairness.

Anyway, it could be worse. At least Oxford and Cambridge aren't as socially divided as, say, the University of Exeter.

To borrow from Laurence Sterne, I suggest that your Oxford hobby horse might need some new shoes.

Reply 5

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
When I say "advantage", I am referring to the following: roughly 8% of all UK students (approximately 16% of sixth formers) attend private schools. That group obtains just under 30% of the undergraduate places at Oxford and Cambridge. Of the roughly 16% of students who attend private sixth forms, only some smaller percentage (varying from school to school) apply to Oxford and Cambridge, so the degree of disproportionate success is even greater than 16% of the student group getting 30% of the available places.
The advantage I refer to is a competitive advantage in obtaining undergraduate places at Oxford and Cambridge. Whether obtaining such places is worthwhile, as some may think, or a silly waste of time, as others may think, is not the point. I am not referring to advantage in terms of likelihood of getting into White's, the MCC, or marrying a Duke or Duchess.
I raised the point about competitive advantage on entry to the terrible two because it appeared that the OP might have mistakenly believed the line plugged by The Times and The Telegraph that Oxford and Cambridge unfairly discriminate against private school students. They don't. If they did, under 16% of the places would go to private school applicants. The media line is designed to make middle class parents feel aggrieved about an imaginary unfairness.
Anyway, it could be worse. At least Oxford and Cambridge aren't as socially divided as, say, the University of Exeter.
To borrow from Laurence Sterne, I suggest that your Oxford hobby horse might need some new shoes.

What utter nonsense about Exeter - far more rife at Oxbridge/Durham. I've got lots of ex-students who've loved in there and seen nothing dodgy re seggregation -

You can't just conpare the proportions in those different schools you need to compare applicants - do you have that data?

There's s NO advantage these days - in fact the opposite since they know state school pupils do better with the same A level grades - particularly when TAGS/CAGs were used. It was foolish not to moderate these like coursework as I've heard some awful true stories about what happened in a school where I'd actually tutored a student and knew what grade he was working at.

Reply 6

Original post
by Muttley79
What utter nonsense about Exeter - far more rife at Oxbridge/Durham. I've got lots of ex-students who've loved in there and seen nothing dodgy re seggregation -
You can't just conpare the proportions in those different schools you need to compare applicants - do you have that data?
There's s NO advantage these days - in fact the opposite since they know state school pupils do better with the same A level grades - particularly when TAGS/CAGs were used. It was foolish not to moderate these like coursework as I've heard some awful true stories about what happened in a school where I'd actually tutored a student and knew what grade he was working at.

Exeter's student newspaper does not agree with you -

https://exepose.com/2023/04/24/does-exeter-university-have-a-class-problem/

https://exepose.com/2024/05/14/dead-deer-on-campus-classism-in-exeter/

I have a school friend who is an alumna of Exeter. She has become wealthy through her own efforts, and is a generous benefactor to her university. She is concerned by social divisions withing the university, which she observes to be more pronounced than they were when she was an undergraduate.

If private schools have no competitive advantage in securing places at Oxford and Cambridge, how is it that almost 30% of those places go to a group of students who represent below 16% of all sixth formers?

Reply 7

You can find articles like that about Oxbridge and Durham an example, albeit old but still true as reportd by my students there: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/22/oxford-university-state-schools-st-hildas

You need to look at data on applicants to see if there is an advantage - I would think it's very likely that far more Private school studnets apply so the proportion of offers reflects that. I note you do not acknowledge the point about student outcomes at university, I wonder why not?

Reply 8

My mum said that just having 3 A*s and an A EPQ isn't enough to get into Oxbridge because she says that every applicant has at least those results. Is that true or no?

Reply 9

Original post
by AmazingusExamius
My mum said that just having 3 A*s and an A EPQ isn't enough to get into Oxbridge because she says that every applicant has at least those results. Is that true or no?
I don't think that's correct, I believe they only consider 3 x A level results (you can also ask the admissions dept directly to double check this). The general advise is its better to focus on getting 3 great grades and doing your EPQ. Also maybe chat with your tutor at school they are best placed to advise you. I know a number of people who got into Oxbridge last year with 3 A levels (note: all of them got 3 x A* grades). Also consider entering into academic competitions - these are definitely considered in your application. Of those I know who went to Oxbridge they had all entered into some essay writing competitions. Again speak to your tutors at school, they can advise on this.

Reply 10

Original post
by AmazingusExamius
My mum said that just having 3 A*s and an A EPQ isn't enough to get into Oxbridge because she says that every applicant has at least those results. Is that true or no?

No, it's fine - a Maths applicant might consider 4.

Reply 11

Original post
by AmazingusExamius
My mum said that just having 3 A*s and an A EPQ isn't enough to get into Oxbridge because she says that every applicant has at least those results. Is that true or no?

I personally owould disagree, everyone applying is obviously incredibly smart, but brilliane is standard at that level. I believe tey offer places based on how teachable you are, if you get what I mean. They want people incredibly passionate and interested in the topic, whihc will definitely be pretty much everyone applying. so you have to stand out in other ways. Further reading on the topic, work experience etc. just something that shows your passion for the subject, and also a willingness to both accept mistakes in your work, regardless of subject and how well you can learn you methods or ways of approaching a problem if it's a mathsy based degree for example. this is just my take, might be wrong, but I'd say they're offering a place to the person, not just the grades, because everyone there has the grades

Reply 12

https://laidlawscholars.network/posts/reflection-durham-university-has-a-class-problem

Durham's class problem - off topic but another poster brought this up.

Reply 13

Pg 16 https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/AnnualAdmissionsStatisticalReport2023b.pdf

Screenshot 2025-01-08 at 22-01-25 University of Oxford Admissions Report - AnnualAdmissionsStat.jpeg

So applications from state schools are approx in same ratio as offers.

Reply 14

Original post
by Muttley79
You can find articles like that about Oxbridge and Durham an example, albeit old but still true as reportd by my students there: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/22/oxford-university-state-schools-st-hildas
You need to look at data on applicants to see if there is an advantage - I would think it's very likely that far more Private school studnets apply so the proportion of offers reflects that. I note you do not acknowledge the point about student outcomes at university, I wonder why not?

I am not talking about student outcomes at university. I am making a point about admissions. A relatively small group of sixth formers obtain almost 30% of the places at Oxford and Cambridge. Not every privately educated sixth former applies to Oxford or Cambridge, so the disproportion is even greater than 16% of X students obtaining 30% of Y places. This is a simple point, made to dispel the OP's apparent notion that, as a student at a private school, he or she might face some disadvantage in the admission process. That notion derives from a media scare story intended to agitate parents of privately educated pupils. It used to be the case that the same small group of sixth formers obtained 50 or 60% of the places. That is no longer the position, but 30% is still a pretty significant tranche of the places, given the relatively small size of the group of privately educated applicants.

Did you study at the University of Exeter? The social division point relates closely to accommodation. At Oxford and Cambridge, people from different backgrounds all live close together in their colleges for at least one year, often two, and sometimes three. At Exeter and other universities, there appears to be some social division based on the cost of accommodation. That's not a good thing. That is the concern observed by my Exeter alumna friend who is closely involved with the university as a benefactrix and fund raiser.

Reply 15

Original post
by AmazingusExamius
My mum said that just having 3 A*s and an A EPQ isn't enough to get into Oxbridge because she says that every applicant has at least those results. Is that true or no?

As others have pointed out, your Mum is mistaken.

Reply 16

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
I am not talking about student outcomes at university. I am making a point about admissions. A relatively small group of sixth formers obtain almost 30% of the places at Oxford and Cambridge. Not every privately educated sixth former applies to Oxford or Cambridge, so the disproportion is even greater than 16% of X students obtaining 30% of Y places. This is a simple point, made to dispel the OP's apparent notion that, as a student at a private school, he or she might face some disadvantage in the admission process. That notion derives from a media scare story intended to agitate parents of privately educated pupils. It used to be the case that the same small group of sixth formers obtained 50 or 60% of the places. That is no longer the position, but 30% is still a pretty significant tranche of the places, given the relatively small size of the group of privately educated applicants.
Did you study at the University of Exeter? The social division point relates closely to accommodation. At Oxford and Cambridge, people from different backgrounds all live close together in their colleges for at least one year, often two, and sometimes three. At Exeter and other universities, there appears to be some social division based on the cost of accommodation. That's not a good thing. That is the concern observed by my Exeter alumna friend who is closely involved with the university as a benefactrix and fund raiser.

Did you miss the data I posted? Post #13 ....

Reply 17

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
I am not talking about student outcomes at university. I am making a point about admissions. A relatively small group of sixth formers obtain almost 30% of the places at Oxford and Cambridge. Not every privately educated sixth former applies to Oxford or Cambridge, so the disproportion is even greater than 16% of X students obtaining 30% of Y places. This is a simple point, made to dispel the OP's apparent notion that, as a student at a private school, he or she might face some disadvantage in the admission process. That notion derives from a media scare story intended to agitate parents of privately educated pupils. It used to be the case that the same small group of sixth formers obtained 50 or 60% of the places. That is no longer the position, but 30% is still a pretty significant tranche of the places, given the relatively small size of the group of privately educated applicants.
Did you study at the University of Exeter? The social division point relates closely to accommodation. At Oxford and Cambridge, people from different backgrounds all live close together in their colleges for at least one year, often two, and sometimes three. At Exeter and other universities, there appears to be some social division based on the cost of accommodation. That's not a good thing. That is the concern observed by my Exeter alumna friend who is closely involved with the university as a benefactrix and fund raiser.

Did you also miss the articles I posted?!

Reply 18

I went to a comprehensive (ex grammar school) and although I know a few people who went to Cambridge, Imperial, and Durham, my experience of grammar and independent school students when I was at Leicester University is that they were generally more pleasant, erudite, and rounded individuals. It is no surprise that they get in Oxbridge in proportionally larger numbers than comprehensive students. On average they're far more likely to come from educated families who concentrated on learning in a natural way with them.
(edited 10 months ago)

Reply 19

I don't think that the data supports your position. You appear at the outset to have mistaken the point that I was making, which was confined to competitive advantage on admissions, and not about some wider advantage, whether educational, social, or otherwise. The numbers suggest that the number of privately educated students who obtain places at Oxford and Cambridge is disproportionate to the relative populations of private and state schools. It appears that educational opportunities, and corresponding social mobility, are still to some extent impacted by the division between state and private schools, although not to the extent that they were, say, fifty years ago. There's another, less easily measurable division between good state schools in affluent areas which attract the best teachers and the most committed students, and are supported by parent groups, and state schools in less affluent areas which may struggle with staffing, and with student and parental engagement.

Contrast another measure, ethnic diversity. Oxford and Cambridge admit ethnic minorities in a proportion slightly higher than the relative proportion in the population aged 18 to 25. Success in widening access by that measure has not thus far been matched quite as well by widening access measured according to socio-economic class. The student groups at many of the most popular universities remain largely middle class.

Media articles can only go so far, and may be spun in various ways. I was interested to hear my friend, a thoughtful woman who doesn't leap to conclusions, express concerns based on her first hand experience of how much more socially divided her university appears to be now, as compared to when she was a student there long ago. ISTR that you mentioned somewhere that you decided when young to say no to an offer from Oxford because you had concerns about the behaviour of some of the students there (although perhaps those concerns lessened later on, as IIRC you mentioned somewhere that you studied for a PGCE in Oxford). Where did you study as an undergraduate?

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