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Medicine at Cambridge too ambitious?

Currently Y12 student studying maths, biology and chemistry. Aspiring to do medicine. Thinking about applying to top unis. I kind of gave up on my hope to apply to Cambridge after receiving my GCSE results which I was somewhat disappointed with. I am also thinking of Imperial and UCL and I am pretty sure they don’t look at GCSEs, mostly just UCAT. My GCSEs are:

9: Biology
9: Chemistry
9: Physics
8: Maths
8: German
7: Geography
7: Religious Studies
7: English Lit
6: English Lang
5: Business

I understand that Cambridge looks at the whole application holistically (including GCSEs) but I completed them at a high achieving grammar school so that kind of works against me. To be honest I was just lazy and not serious enough last year. I am doing well now however. On track for A*/As in my predicted grades. In addition to this I am currently partaking in many super curricular activities and am also doing volunteering. I have seen similar posts on TSR (albeit with slightly better grades) asking the same question and many retaking and people saying not to bother. Considering almost everyone at Cambridge has strings of 8s and 9s at GCSE and medicine is an especially competitive course, should I become more realistic? Should I retake (I’ve been thinking about English Language and Business, perhaps R.S.)? Should I Just not bother about Cambridge and just strengthen my application for other universities. I don’t want to regret it if I don’t apply and I know I can strengthen other areas of my application. Also how important are extra-curriculars like sports and music?, I’ve kind of stopped everything this year. HEEELP. Thank you.

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Reply 1

Hey there, thanks for posting a question in the Medicine forum. :biggrin:

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Reply 2

Do you realise that it doesn't matter where you train to be a doctor - its exactly the same qualification.
The NHS is not going to ask 'which Uni', and neither will your future patients. And no-one curtseys to you in the corridor just because you went to Cambridge.

Reply 3

I understand that. The main reason I want to study at Cambridge is because of its traditional teaching style, which I believe would be best suited to me and my style of learning. In addition to this, the use of tutorials and a scientific/academic emphasis appeals to me. I know and have been told about the “med is med” mindset but if I’m going to apply to university I feel as though it should be one I’m happy going to and one which I know suits me and helps me fulfil my potential. It may be Cambridge for some and it may not be for others, that’s okay.

Reply 4

Original post
by just a happy guy
I understand that. The main reason I want to study at Cambridge is because of its traditional teaching style, which I believe would be best suited to me and my style of learning. In addition to this, the use of tutorials and a scientific/academic emphasis appeals to me. I know and have been told about the “med is med” mindset but if I’m going to apply to university I feel as though it should be one I’m happy going to and one which I know suits me and helps me fulfil my potential. It may be Cambridge for some and it may not be for others, that’s okay.

Saying stuff like this doesn't mean anything. You don't know if you would enjoy their style of teaching without actually going to the uni. I've heard from many people that Cambridge do not have a good teaching style, intensive for a few weeks then just off, on and off which is known to cause burn-out quickly. The only reason people go to Cambridge is to be able to say "I went to Cambridge, I'm better than you 🤓" or for the research opportunities.

Looking at your grades, you probably wouldn't end up having a competitive application anyway, it's not anything against you, but when everyone that applies to Oxbridge has straight 8/9s and will get all A*, have the best work experience and volunteering, as well as a UCAT score way above average, there really isn't anything else to set you apart.

This isn't to say you cannot get in, just to say there will always be people with higher everything else than you that will still get rejected, so what else sets you apart?

Best of luck.

Reply 5

Thank you for your response.
I have taken all things said on board. I assure you my reasoning to apply to Cambridge goes well beyond its prestige but never mind. Despite the fact I will be disadvantaged by my GCSE grades, I am still motivated to apply to Cambridge and will put in the effort needed to prove myself. Thanks once again.

Reply 6

I am genuinely curious if you, or anyone else for that matter, thinks that retakes in my two lowest GCSEs would be worthwhile, and would appreciate any advice on that aspect.

Reply 7

Original post
by just a happy guy
Thank you for your response.
I have taken all things said on board. I assure you my reasoning to apply to Cambridge goes well beyond its prestige but never mind. Despite the fact I will be disadvantaged by my GCSE grades, I am still motivated to apply to Cambridge and will put in the effort needed to prove myself. Thanks once again.

Happy to see this! I applied for med at Cambridge this year, and I had teachers criticise it. Yes med is med, but at the end of the day if you’re lucky enough to have realistic options (which I thankfully was), then just apply where you’d like! I am really keen on research and intercalation which are reasons why I applied, but also I just really wanted a Uni with surroundings that made me happy (mainly greenery and gardens and not more modern buildings, don’t know modern architecture makes me feel gloomy haha), and with the fact that medicine will be a demanding degree at times I think being somewhere you’re comfortable is best. That being said try and refrain from making it your only goal in your mind in case your UCAT is disappointing and it’s not as realistic.

In terms of resits I can’t offer much advice sorry. Considering it’s your sciences where you have 9s I don’t think it would make you a definite no, but then again Cambridge is quite ambiguous at times. I think your best chance is smashing UCAT and having good supercurriculars and predicteds, therefore making your whole application stronger and also relevant to other med schools. If any I’d resit to english language, I don’t think they will care much for business gcse.
Original post
by just a happy guy
Currently Y12 student studying maths, biology and chemistry. Aspiring to do medicine. Thinking about applying to top unis. I kind of gave up on my hope to apply to Cambridge after receiving my GCSE results which I was somewhat disappointed with. I am also thinking of Imperial and UCL and I am pretty sure they don’t look at GCSEs, mostly just UCAT. My GCSEs are:
9: Biology
9: Chemistry
9: Physics
8: Maths
8: German
7: Geography
7: Religious Studies
7: English Lit
6: English Lang
5: Business
I understand that Cambridge looks at the whole application holistically (including GCSEs) but I completed them at a high achieving grammar school so that kind of works against me. To be honest I was just lazy and not serious enough last year. I am doing well now however. On track for A*/As in my predicted grades. In addition to this I am currently partaking in many super curricular activities and am also doing volunteering. I have seen similar posts on TSR (albeit with slightly better grades) asking the same question and many retaking and people saying not to bother. Considering almost everyone at Cambridge has strings of 8s and 9s at GCSE and medicine is an especially competitive course, should I become more realistic? Should I retake (I’ve been thinking about English Language and Business, perhaps R.S.)? Should I Just not bother about Cambridge and just strengthen my application for other universities. I don’t want to regret it if I don’t apply and I know I can strengthen other areas of my application. Also how important are extra-curriculars like sports and music?, I’ve kind of stopped everything this year. HEEELP. Thank you.

While Oxford is not suggested with your GCSE results, Cambridge is still a possibility, if you have a good UCAT. Though post interview offer at Cambridge stands at 21-24%. Their holistic review of GCSE is slightly lower compared to A and UCAT, but it's still one components of review.

UCAT is the key to med schools, as it stands unfortunately. So apart from academic, super curricular activities, you need to ensure you achieve high at UCAT.

Coming back to Traditional teaching, apart from Oxbridge, UCL offer traditional teaching too. St Andrew does a mix of traditional and some clinical in the first 3 years, remaining years of clinical will be done at partner unis.

As for Cambridge or or, it's prestige to be able to get into Oxbridge but reality is that no one would ask where you graduate from at F1 and beyond.

Reply 9

Original post
by just a happy guy
I am genuinely curious if you, or anyone else for that matter, thinks that retakes in my two lowest GCSEs would be worthwhile, and would appreciate any advice on that aspect.

I'm Scottish (how could you have guessed 🤣) so I can't give much advice on GCSE retakes as we don't do retakes here in Scotland.
If you think you will end up getting a higher score than your last, your school will let you and you it won't have a negative impact on your a-levels, I don't see why not.

Reply 10

Original post
by study23!
Happy to see this! I applied for med at Cambridge this year, and I had teachers criticise it. Yes med is med, but at the end of the day if you’re lucky enough to have realistic options (which I thankfully was), then just apply where you’d like! I am really keen on research and intercalation which are reasons why I applied, but also I just really wanted a Uni with surroundings that made me happy (mainly greenery and gardens and not more modern buildings, don’t know modern architecture makes me feel gloomy haha), and with the fact that medicine will be a demanding degree at times I think being somewhere you’re comfortable is best. That being said try and refrain from making it your only goal in your mind in case your UCAT is disappointing and it’s not as realistic.
In terms of resits I can’t offer much advice sorry. Considering it’s your sciences where you have 9s I don’t think it would make you a definite no, but then again Cambridge is quite ambiguous at times. I think your best chance is smashing UCAT and having good supercurriculars and predicteds, therefore making your whole application stronger and also relevant to other med schools. If any I’d resit to english language, I don’t think they will care much for business gcse.

Thanks so much for the reply! I completely agree with you with the fact that modern architecture can be somewhat dulling. Do you mind telling me your GCSEs and UCAT score, I’m just wondering what kind of score would be needed to compensate for my GCSEs. Also can I ask what super curricular activities you completed and mentioned.
I wish you the best of luck with your application this year!

Reply 11

Original post
by Jonjon7
While Oxford is not suggested with your GCSE results, Cambridge is still a possibility, if you have a good UCAT. Though post interview offer at Cambridge stands at 21-24%. Their holistic review of GCSE is slightly lower compared to A and UCAT, but it's still one components of review.
UCAT is the key to med schools, as it stands unfortunately. So apart from academic, super curricular activities, you need to ensure you achieve high at UCAT.
Coming back to Traditional teaching, apart from Oxbridge, UCL offer traditional teaching too. St Andrew does a mix of traditional and some clinical in the first 3 years, remaining years of clinical will be done at partner unis.
As for Cambridge or or, it's prestige to be able to get into Oxbridge but reality is that no one would ask where you graduate from at F1 and beyond.

Thank you for your reply!
I didn’t realise UCL offered a traditional teaching style and I shall look into this. From what I’ve gathered between you and the previous reply, the UCAT seems to be one of the main areas I should focus on to compensate for my lower GCSEs, provided I achieve high predicted grades. Thank you again for your information, it’s been very helpful!

Reply 12

Original post
by stilllearning123
I'm Scottish (how could you have guessed 🤣) so I can't give much advice on GCSE retakes as we don't do retakes here in Scotland.
If you think you will end up getting a higher score than your last, your school will let you and you it won't have a negative impact on your a-levels, I don't see why not.

I should have noticed 😭. Thank you for the advice, I am currently leaning more towards the side of retaking but am still not 100% sure.

Reply 13

Original post
by just a happy guy
Thanks so much for the reply! I completely agree with you with the fact that modern architecture can be somewhat dulling. Do you mind telling me your GCSEs and UCAT score, I’m just wondering what kind of score would be needed to compensate for my GCSEs. Also can I ask what super curricular activities you completed and mentioned.
I wish you the best of luck with your application this year!

Yeah of course. I may look daunting tho as one of the ‘straight a students’, but they do stress that they are very holistic and I think I’ve seen people in past years who had 6s in some GCSEs get in.

I got 14 A*s GCSEs (welsh) and then a UCAT of 3230 B1. Which was much higher than I was expecting. I was aiming for 2800+ which is usually around top 20%. I haven’t seen many people online who got an interview yet to see what the average ucat scores were. I don’t think I was at the lower end at least, I’d say if they were mean they’d have a estimate ish cutoff of around 3000, and I think if they’re more generous 2800ish plus. Again I *think* if you have a high UCAT score this may compensate for lower GCSEs and vice versa.

That being said UCAT scoring is changing for your year (abstract reasoning has been taken out). So yours will be out of 2700. If we say 2800-3600 was roughly 80%, I’d give you a goal of 2160 out of 2700, which is roughly 720 per subsection (out of 900 each). I know this is all estimates but it’s also Cambridges first year using UCAT for me so no one knows how much emphasis they have on it. So for the sake of Cambridge and just increasing chances of getting in everywhere I’d try and aim for 700+ in each subsection average.

Supercurriculars I did loads 😂 but I think you should focus in on a few that interest you. I read some books, watched webinars, did science olympiads if I could, essay competitions, summer schools, documentaries, podcasts… a lot! I’d choose a couple that interest you, and if you for example read a book that really interests you, develop this further by looking into something else on that subject and sort of grow on your academic interests. For example reading a book on cancer, then you’re interested in a treatment they mentioned so you watch a ted talk on it, which leads you on to an article on xyz… I only mentioned a few of these things in my statement. Honestly just pick the ones you enjoy and you’ll be able to write reflectively well on them!

Hope this helps :smile:

Reply 14

Wow those are incredible stats. I’m currently involved in some outreach programmes related to biology which I think may be helpful and have started reading about medicine. I have no doubt you’ll get in! Thank you 🙏

Reply 15

Original post
by study23!
Yeah of course. I may look daunting tho as one of the ‘straight a students’, but they do stress that they are very holistic and I think I’ve seen people in past years who had 6s in some GCSEs get in.
I got 14 A*s GCSEs (welsh) and then a UCAT of 3230 B1. Which was much higher than I was expecting. I was aiming for 2800+ which is usually around top 20%. I haven’t seen many people online who got an interview yet to see what the average ucat scores were. I don’t think I was at the lower end at least, I’d say if they were mean they’d have a estimate ish cutoff of around 3000, and I think if they’re more generous 2800ish plus. Again I *think* if you have a high UCAT score this may compensate for lower GCSEs and vice versa.
That being said UCAT scoring is changing for your year (abstract reasoning has been taken out). So yours will be out of 2700. If we say 2800-3600 was roughly 80%, I’d give you a goal of 2160 out of 2700, which is roughly 720 per subsection (out of 900 each). I know this is all estimates but it’s also Cambridges first year using UCAT for me so no one knows how much emphasis they have on it. So for the sake of Cambridge and just increasing chances of getting in everywhere I’d try and aim for 700+ in each subsection average.
Supercurriculars I did loads 😂 but I think you should focus in on a few that interest you. I read some books, watched webinars, did science olympiads if I could, essay competitions, summer schools, documentaries, podcasts… a lot! I’d choose a couple that interest you, and if you for example read a book that really interests you, develop this further by looking into something else on that subject and sort of grow on your academic interests. For example reading a book on cancer, then you’re interested in a treatment they mentioned so you watch a ted talk on it, which leads you on to an article on xyz… I only mentioned a few of these things in my statement. Honestly just pick the ones you enjoy and you’ll be able to write reflectively well on them!
Hope this helps :smile:

Can I ask how you prepared for the UCAT to get such a high score, like how long did u spend and what resources did you use. Thank you!

Reply 16

Original post
by just a happy guy
Can I ask how you prepared for the UCAT to get such a high score, like how long did u spend and what resources did you use. Thank you!

I used medifys question bank for 2.5 months. My UCAT was mid September and I started revising mid of July ish. I probably did about 2 weeks of 1-2hrs daily untimed practice of different subsections, then 3 weeks 1-2hrs daily times practice, and then for pretty much the month until the test I did a mock exam a day.

What I’d really recommend is keeping a notebook where you reflect on each mock/mini mock. I’d write down each score for the subsections and then write which things I did well and which I didn’t. For example for the Verbal Reasoning section I might have written I prefer the strategy of reading the text before answering the four questions compared to finding keywords first, but then might have said that I struggle whenever there’s a historical text so skip these and come back to save time. For quantative reasoning I might have said using the calculator more quickly but forgot how to do ratios or something. Things like this so next mock you look over how to do ratios before and you know what to skip, you try it and see if your score improves on your weaker areas (it will fluctuate each time cause it’s random questions of varying difficulties), but I found over time I had a gradual curve improving. I did have a dip the week before my exam (not sure why lol), and the few days before it went up again to where it was before.

UCAT website has four official mocks (and questions banks so use these too). I did my first official mock a month before, the second two weeks before, and then the last two within the week of the exam. These ones are the closest you’ll get to the real thing so I found it best to spread them out so I could see if my medify scores translated to a similar UCAT score.

You’ll learn strategies that fit you whilst practicing, and id recommend just watching videos generally on UCAT as they can give tips on what worked for them.

For the SJT section also keep a diary, practise and read the GMC. Most of it is common sense but the difficult part is knowing if something is very important or just important. For example the safety of the patient is always very important, but some of them are more ambiguous, and through practice you can start to notice trends.

Generally the advice given is 6 weeks at minimum revising. I knew that I didn’t want to do loads daily, whilst my friend did maybe 4-6 hours a day for 6 weeks straight. That worked for him, and my strategy worked for me. So really I’d start earlier in small doses (like the 1-2hrs), and if you think this is something horrible that youll never do better at (you will promise), you can up that revision time daily with enough time to figure out how much works for you. If you start on the 6 week deadline you run the risk of getting scared and either procrastinating or doing loads to the point of burnout, that is if you feel it doesn’t come naturally. So long story short, I’d probably recommend 8 weeks ish of moderate revision :smile:

Reply 17

Thank you I will use this advice! You have been really helpful, please do update me on whether you get an offer or not although I’m almost certain you will!

Reply 18

Teaching style is no big deal, it's University, you'll actually develop your own in time anyway.

Conventional lectures with a room of 200 people watching a presenter are now pretty much loathed by a lot of medical students and have been shown to not actually be that effective (I actually like them though, plus you have direct access to the lecturer at the end to ask questions). That being said, having lots of small group work takes a lot of time table management and if the group doesn't get on it causes problems down the line. If you get some bigger personalities in a room of 10 people then it might discourage the less confident to contribute if you see what I mean.

Don't get wrapped up in case based, problem based or conventional- not everything revolves around them. The bulk of learning is self-directed and you do your own thing.

I personally would avoid any course which is essay heavy as I consider essays to be very restrictive due to the amount of time you have to spend creating them. I'd far rather be hammering anki around the clock as it gives better long term retention and many studies have shown this.

The main bonus of small group CBL type teaching is not related to the actual content itself but instead because it forces you to learn to research material and then present it to the rest of the time whilst developing leadership skills. This absolutely mimics the style of operation in many hospitals where high-level decisions need to be made- later in your course you will get to attend things like critical care ward rounds and similar heavyweight multidisciplinary team meetings where each participant brings their own expertise to the meeting. You will be called upon to do this as a doctor again and again, either talking or discussing cases with your seniors or juniors or with patients or their relatives. Your soft skills are as important as your academics and technical understanding, don't neglect them.

I know someone who attended Cambridge as a quintessential straight A student but they lasted mere weeks there before opting to go elsewhere. The main reason was that they were from a very different socioeconomic background to their fellow students and they felt they just didn't fit in as a result. That is something to consider although anyone would be rightly proud of being offered a place in such a prestigious institution.

Also consider that you will be graduating alongside around 8000 other people and you won't be paid any more money because you went to medical school X or Y, nor will your final grades make any difference to where you undertake foundation training. In fact, these sorts of things are now rapidly disappearing into irrelevance when it comes to speciality training, for better or worse.
(edited 9 months ago)

Reply 19

Original post
by McGinger
Do you realise that it doesn't matter where you train to be a doctor - its exactly the same qualification.
The NHS is not going to ask 'which Uni', and neither will your future patients. And no-one curtseys to you in the corridor just because you went to Cambridge.

Actually, increasingly it does matter.

You're right, that if you work just in the NHS which university you study at will not impact your ability to get a job. There is data suggesting that it does influence your likelihood of passing the postgraduate royal college exams first time - but that is surmountable

However there's an increasing number of UK trained doctors (and nurses) who leave the NHS to work in the private sector or abroad. Outside the NHS where you studied does matter. With that in mind, I think a sixth-former should think carefully about where they apply to - accepting that they may not have a choice if they only get one offer.

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