Oxford, Mature Student, and GCSE Grades

20

I am currently finishing a degree in maths. Started at The University of Sheffield but finishing with the Open University - mental health issues (bipolar 2) meant I couldn't finish my degree at Sheffield.

I would like to do a degree in German in the future and I am prepared to complete another couple of A-levels in preparation.

I already have my sights set on Oxford and UCL.

My concern is that I didn't achieve good GCSE grades (mostly B's and C's) when I was younger. Mainly due to abuse and not going to a particularly good school.

Will poor GCSE grades from all those years ago overshadow my A-level grades and the fact I will by then already have a degree (1st expected)?

Many thanks in advance.

Reply 1

artful_lounger

Universities Forum Helper

21

For UCL at least GCSE grades probably not a big deal for mature students (weren't in my case). Oxford i suspect will take a more holistic view of mature students and GCSEs may be less important as they were taken some time in the past.

I suspect the biggest potential barrier is funding since you'll need to self fund a second degree in languages. If thats not a barrier and you can get an A/A* in A-level German then that plus your degree may be suitable grounds for entry, although worth asking them what expectations for graduate applicants are to be sure.

Reply 2

mathperson

OP

20

Bumping this because it took a while for the thread to be approved.

Reply 3

The_Lonely_Goatherd

20

Hiya,

I don't know the answer to your question. It is def good to aim high, and I hope you don't mind me offering you this unsolicited advice. I give it out of concern (having read some of your past threads), and with the best of intentions :smile:

If you *do* end up applying to Oxford and getting an offer, don't be in a rush to accept it just because "it's Oxford" or because you really wanna go. First, before accepting (or declining!), find out everything you can about:

a) What support, as a student with bipolar 2, you can realistically expect from your college and the Uni. Which includes/leads me onto:

b) What exam concessions and arrangements, if any, would be made if you had a flare up of symptoms that impinge upon exam periods. How would your bipolar 2 be taken into account in exam marking - that kind of thing.

I say this because Oxford can be amazing, but it can also sometimes be brutal and unforgiving, particularly with item (b). So, if you choose to accept an offer (if made), the main thing is to know what you've signed up for, and go in fully informed with your eyes open :yep:

Signed,

An Oxford alumna with schizoaffective disorder (think bipolar 2 plus a huge dollop of psychosis added!)

Reply 4

mathperson

OP

20

Original post

by The_Lonely_Goatherd

Hiya,
I don't know the answer to your question. It is def good to aim high, and I hope you don't mind me offering you this unsolicited advice. I give it out of concern (having read some of your past threads), and with the best of intentions :smile:

If you *do* end up applying to Oxford and getting an offer, don't be in a rush to accept it just because "it's Oxford" or because you really wanna go. First, before accepting (or declining!), find out everything you can about:
a) What support, as a student with bipolar 2, you can realistically expect from your college and the Uni. Which includes/leads me onto:
b) What exam concessions and arrangements, if any, would be made if you had a flare up of symptoms that impinge upon exam periods. How would your bipolar 2 be taken into account in exam marking - that kind of thing.
I say this because Oxford can be amazing, but it can also sometimes be brutal and unforgiving, particularly with item (b). So, if you choose to accept an offer (if made), the main thing is to know what you've signed up for, and go in fully informed with your eyes open :yep:

Signed,
An Oxford alumna with schizoaffective disorder (think bipolar 2 plus a huge dollop of psychosis added!)

Hey!

I don't mind at all, I really appreciate your advice and insight.

I noticed that you signed off as an Oxford alumna. Apologies if you have told me at some point before (I know that we've both been on TSR for a very long time), but what was your experience?
Feel free to PM me if you'd prefer 😊

Reply 5

The_Lonely_Goatherd

20

Original post

by mathperson

Hey!
I don't mind at all, I really appreciate your advice and insight.
I noticed that you signed off as an Oxford alumna. Apologies if you have told me at some point before (I know that we've both been on TSR for a very long time), but what was your experience?
Feel free to PM me if you'd prefer 😊

I'm not sure I have talked to you about Oxford stuff, dw! :hugs:

Safe to say, my degree was a bit of a car crash, and I found most of the "support" I was given/offered a bit woeful at best, and downright dangerous at worst. I won't go into every single detail (because it could scare some people off Oxford, I imagine - which is not something I deliberately set out to do in any of my posts!), but to give you some of the highlights:

•

I had one tutor make jokes about my psychosis upon first learning about it ("you're not going to knife [my junior tutor], are you?!"). Meanwhile one admin staff made unfounded assumptions about me being dangerous towards the tutor who had made the joke and how I might knife him, whilst another admin member made a joke about my suicide attempt :s-smilie:

•

I was told my symptom of hearing dangerous voices (I didn't have a diagnosis back then. I'd been discharged from Oxford's mental health outpatients hospital for being too normal :rolleyes: ) couldn't be taken into account in exam marking and final degree classification, even if I started hearing them in the exam(s). The reasonining? "We don't know how you would have done, had you not been hearing voices". Infuriating, not to mention untrue (I had mock exam grades from before I became psychotic)

•

A counsellor broke confidentiality without warning me or seeking my permission, and spoke to my uni GP, who then gave the counsellor private info about my health and my conversations with said GP

•

One of the saddest things about everything was that no one in my college thought to suggest to me that I should speak to the uni disability service staff. College academics and admin staff tried to deal with everything themselves, risking my safety/life in the process (NB. This wouldn't happen to you because you'd be applying with a pre-existing condition)

Since I left Oxford, changes have been made within my college, the SU, and the Uni more generally, but not enough of them imho. I have no regrets about attending Oxford, personally, and wouldn't change my time there (it was character-building, at least :tongue:

) - but I would hate for anyone else to ever suffer even a smidgen of some of the things I faced :sadnod:

Reply 6

mathperson

OP

20

Original post

by The_Lonely_Goatherd

I'm not sure I have talked to you about Oxford stuff, dw! :hugs:

Safe to say, my degree was a bit of a car crash, and I found most of the "support" I was given/offered a bit woeful at best, and downright dangerous at worst. I won't go into every single detail (because it could scare some people off Oxford, I imagine - which is not something I deliberately set out to do in any of my posts!), but to give you some of the highlights:

•

I had one tutor make jokes about my psychosis upon first learning about it ("you're not going to knife [my junior tutor], are you?!"). Meanwhile one admin staff made unfounded assumptions about me being dangerous towards the tutor who had made the joke and how I might knife him, whilst another admin member made a joke about my suicide attempt :s-smilie:

•

I was told my symptom of hearing dangerous voices (I didn't have a diagnosis back then. I'd been discharged from Oxford's mental health outpatients hospital for being too normal :rolleyes: ) couldn't be taken into account in exam marking and final degree classification, even if I started hearing them in the exam(s). The reasonining? "We don't know how you would have done, had you not been hearing voices". Infuriating, not to mention untrue (I had mock exam grades from before I became psychotic)

•

A counsellor broke confidentiality without warning me or seeking my permission, and spoke to my uni GP, who then gave the counsellor private info about my health and my conversations with said GP

•

One of the saddest things about everything was that no one in my college thought to suggest to me that I should speak to the uni disability service staff. College academics and admin staff tried to deal with everything themselves, risking my safety/life in the process (NB. This wouldn't happen to you because you'd be applying with a pre-existing condition)

Since I left Oxford, changes have been made within my college, the SU, and the Uni more generally, but not enough of them imho. I have no regrets about attending Oxford, personally, and wouldn't change my time there (it was character-building, at least :tongue:

) - but I would hate for anyone else to ever suffer even a smidgen of some of the things I faced :sadnod:

Wow, the things you experienced are unacceptable and actually rather shocking. I'm sorry that you went through that 😕

When I was at Sheffield University, I had a slightly better experience. However, I always had the feeling that they were trying to cover their own arses and simply doing things because they had to.
For example, very many students were given the same kind of support regardless of need and without any kind of thought about what they/we might actually require. If you asked for anything outside of their standard offer of 25% extra time in exams, you had to go through an exhausting process (which the university and department itself actively dissuaded you from pursuing). Run by a bunch of bureaucrats who have an inflated sense of their own importance.
I hated my time at Sheffield University and I would advise anybody against going there based on what I experienced.

But looking forwards, I like the idea of going to Oxford because I think the tutorial system would suit me as, push me, and keep me focused.
That being said, I place UCL on an equal footing personally, although for different reasons. They offer more languages and although I wouldn't want to live in London after the degree, I think the experience of living in London would be beneficial (my long-term plan is to move to Germany).

Reply 7

The_Lonely_Goatherd

20

Original post

by mathperson

Wow, the things you experienced are unacceptable and actually rather shocking. I'm sorry that you went through that 😕
When I was at Sheffield University, I had a slightly better experience. However, I always had the feeling that they were trying to cover their own arses and simply doing things because they had to.
For example, very many students were given the same kind of support regardless of need and without any kind of thought about what they/we might actually require. If you asked for anything outside of their standard offer of 25% extra time in exams, you had to go through an exhausting process (which the university and department itself actively dissuaded you from pursuing). Run by a bunch of bureaucrats who have an inflated sense of their own importance.
I hated my time at Sheffield University and I would advise anybody against going there based on what I experienced.
But looking forwards, I like the idea of going to Oxford because I think the tutorial system would suit me as, push me, and keep me focused.
That being said, I place UCL on an equal footing personally, although for different reasons. They offer more languages and although I wouldn't want to live in London after the degree, I think the experience of living in London would be beneficial (my long-term plan is to move to Germany).

Ahhhh, I only told the tip of the iceberg here, haha :ninja:

Thanks for your validation and kind words, and sorry to hear Sheffield was rather uniform and sometimes obstructive in their approach :s-smilie:

That's so disappointing :sadnod:

The tutorial system is really wonderful and definitely a huge plus-point, imho :awesome:

Though, as a Londoner, I think London is the best city in the world :king1:

so would def advocate for that too :biggrin:

I'm not saying don't apply to Oxford at all, just suggesting you do whatever research you can about Ox (and indeed any other uni) to compare and contrast the different levels of support and make an informed decision :hugs:

Reply 8

mathperson

OP

20

Original post

by The_Lonely_Goatherd

Ahhhh, I only told the tip of the iceberg here, haha :ninja:

Thanks for your validation and kind words, and sorry to hear Sheffield was rather uniform and sometimes obstructive in their approach :s-smilie:

That's so disappointing :sadnod:

The tutorial system is really wonderful and definitely a huge plus-point, imho :awesome:

Though, as a Londoner, I think London is the best city in the world :king1:

so would def advocate for that too :biggrin:

I'm not saying don't apply to Oxford at all, just suggesting you do whatever research you can about Ox (and indeed any other uni) to compare and contrast the different levels of support and make an informed decision :hugs:

Goodness, I hate to think there was much more!

I know it's difficult for students from one university to compare their course with courses at other universities because they may have no experience of other uni's (which is why I never trust the "university-union-of-the-year-as-voted-for-by-students" nonsense), but would you say that Oxford courses are more intense compared with the same course at other universities?
I watched a couple of Oxford level 1 or 2 maths lectures on YouTube and, to be honest, it was roughly the same content that I met Sheffield! Only difference from what I could tell is that the pace was a little faster.
That is one of the things that would make me reconsider Oxford, in addition to what you have told me. If I had a wobble with my mental health, it would be more difficult to manage that if the course was just relentless.

Reply 9

The_Lonely_Goatherd

20

Original post

by mathperson

Goodness, I hate to think there was much more!
I know it's difficult for students from one university to compare their course with courses at other universities because they may have no experience of other uni's (which is why I never trust the "university-union-of-the-year-as-voted-for-by-students" nonsense), but would you say that Oxford courses are more intense compared with the same course at other universities?
I watched a couple of Oxford level 1 or 2 maths lectures on YouTube and, to be honest, it was roughly the same content that I met Sheffield! Only difference from what I could tell is that the pace was a little faster.
That is one of the things that would make me reconsider Oxford, in addition to what you have told me. If I had a wobble with my mental health, it would be more difficult to manage that if the course was just relentless.

I mean, I can only vaguely reliably speak for my own subject (music). I had at least 3 tutorials every week of each term (one week in my first year, I had five tutorial, which was pretty hellish! :eek:

) and you have to produce work in advance for those tutorials. So it meant I had a deadline for a piece of work roughly every 2-3 days or so during term-time, including 16 essays a term (compared to the 2 that friends at other top music departments were doing per term. Though admittedly, my essays didn't count towards my final degree classification!). When I was studying there, we were studying modules that were (we were told by a DPhil student, who had done her undergrad at a top non-Oxbridge music dept) Masters level and that weren't taught at other unis outside of Oxbridge. So the volume and the depth of the work were both quite advanced and intense.

The courses can feel quite relentless and never-ending during term time. If you get behind - be that for mental health reasons, other health issues (e.g. ME/chronic fatigue syndrome), or even just catching covid or freshers' flu - it can be really hard to catch up. Often tutors will expect you to somehow catch up, too :erm:

So that's something to bear in mind when making any decisions about accepting potential Oxford offer :yes:

Oxford, Mature Student, and GCSE Grades

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