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2:2 with a Training Contract

I got a high 2:2 for my LLB, but I could provide evidence that could support my poor performance. I got a 2:1, a high 2:1, in my first year, though. And my mother was diagnosed with Stage 3 breast cancer in my second year. She also divorced my dad shortly after. I wouldn't want to admit it, but this has affected me mentally. I wasn't in my best mental state at that point in time.

I just received an unconditional offer to pursue a Banking and Finance Law LLM at QMUL starting this September.

I was just wondering if, if I were to get a High Distinction in my LLM, would my LLM grade (kind of) prove my competency and my ability to excel in academics? I know quite a number of firms have removed the minimum grade requirement recently. So, I need to know what my chances are.

Also, I wouldn't mind doing a second degree (Bsc Finance) to aim for a 2:1 or 1:1 so I could leverage it to strengthen my application.

Can anyone please give me any advice on this?
Original post
by milkyyyy27
I got a high 2:2 for my LLB, but I could provide evidence that could support my poor performance. I got a 2:1, a high 2:1, in my first year, though. And my mother was diagnosed with Stage 3 breast cancer in my second year. She also divorced my dad shortly after. I wouldn't want to admit it, but this has affected me mentally. I wasn't in my best mental state at that point in time.
I just received an unconditional offer to pursue a Banking and Finance Law LLM at QMUL starting this September.
I was just wondering if, if I were to get a High Distinction in my LLM, would my LLM grade (kind of) prove my competency and my ability to excel in academics? I know quite a number of firms have removed the minimum grade requirement recently. So, I need to know what my chances are.
Also, I wouldn't mind doing a second degree (Bsc Finance) to aim for a 2:1 or 1:1 so I could leverage it to strengthen my application.
Can anyone please give me any advice on this?

I understand your feelings. Not to
Focus on your LLM and demonstrate your ability. Then apply to those firms without grade requirements, you will have decent chances there. You can go everywhere after qualified.

Reply 2

Hey I got a 2.2 as well and it’s really demotivating. If you really want to do law I would say try do a masters. I want to do that next year (if a good uni will even take me idk). Although unfortunately I did read somewhere that even if you have a good masters grade that doesn’t cancel out the bachelor so it’s disheartening to know that as well. I honestly dunno what to do.

Reply 3

Original post
by milkyyyy27
I got a high 2:2 for my LLB, but I could provide evidence that could support my poor performance. I got a 2:1, a high 2:1, in my first year, though. And my mother was diagnosed with Stage 3 breast cancer in my second year. She also divorced my dad shortly after. I wouldn't want to admit it, but this has affected me mentally. I wasn't in my best mental state at that point in time.
I just received an unconditional offer to pursue a Banking and Finance Law LLM at QMUL starting this September.
I was just wondering if, if I were to get a High Distinction in my LLM, would my LLM grade (kind of) prove my competency and my ability to excel in academics? I know quite a number of firms have removed the minimum grade requirement recently. So, I need to know what my chances are.
Also, I wouldn't mind doing a second degree (Bsc Finance) to aim for a 2:1 or 1:1 so I could leverage it to strengthen my application.
Can anyone please give me any advice on this?

Hi,

You've posted replies on a few other threads on this forum, and the Legal Careers forum, so perhaps we can try to keep the discussion to a single thread?

First, my sympathies for what must have been a very difficult time.

You say those events occurred in your second year. Presumably you raised those extenuating circumstances with your University at that time and/or in your third year? Have those circumstances been officially noted?

Did you do secure much in the way of work experience whilst at Uni (e.g. formal vac schemes or the like) and did you apply for training contracts? What area of the law would you like to go into? Which Uni did you attend?

The short point is that firms, generally speaking, focus on your undergrad degree and strong performance in a Masters won't counteract a previous 2:2. Think very hard about this. As you will have seen from other posts on this and the Legal Careers forum, it is incredibly competitive to secure entry to the profession. There are numerous stories on here of individuals with strong 2:1s from well-respected Universities who have been unable to secure a training contract. I posted a little while ago with some very rough statistics of the number of undergrads seeking entry to the profession vs the number of training contracts awarded. They are not great odds.

So, consider carefully whether you think it is worthwhile investing a substantial amount of money in a course which, in all likelihood, will probably not "shift the dial" in terms of your applications and overall attractiveness to employers. If you are passionate about the law as a subject, the topics on your Masters look interesting and you have sufficient funds then go for it. But if you're only looking at it as a means to "upgrade" your overall academic standing, then you might want to reconsider.

Reply 4

I hope that your mother is OK.

I won't say that "degree washing" never works, and it might work for you because of the particular sad circumstances which you mention, but in general a good result in an LLM course won't sufficiently offset a bad result in a first degree course. The level of competition for training contracts is such that law firms are likely to choose the candidates with firsts and 2.1s in most instances.

Having an LLM or BCL is a bit like icing on the cake for the strongest candidates. Someone who applies, for example, to a magic circle firm or a set of barrister's chambers and who has a first in law will be more or less expected to have an LLM or a BCL as well, but other candidates won't be expected to have one.

Taking a second undergraduate degree would be expensive.

If you provide details of your circumstances in your applications, you might get a chance, but I fear that your 2.2 might see your application discarded during the initial sift.

If you target small to medium sized firms you might do better. Best of luck.

Reply 5

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
I hope that your mother is OK.
I won't say that "degree washing" never works, and it might work for you because of the particular sad circumstances which you mention, but in general a good result in an LLM course won't sufficiently offset a bad result in a first degree course. The level of competition for training contracts is such that law firms are likely to choose the candidates with firsts and 2.1s in most instances.
Having an LLM or BCL is a bit like icing on the cake for the strongest candidates. Someone who applies, for example, to a magic circle firm or a set of barrister's chambers and who has a first in law will be more or less expected to have an LLM or a BCL as well, but other candidates won't be expected to have one.
Taking a second undergraduate degree would be expensive.
If you provide details of your circumstances in your applications, you might get a chance, but I fear that your 2.2 might see your application discarded during the initial sift.
If you target small to medium sized firms you might do better. Best of luck.


I agree with this. Most firms will take into consideration your extenuating circumstances.

Reply 6

Original post
by katana10000
I agree with this. Most firms will take into consideration your extenuating circumstances.

I think firms will take extenuating circumstances into account if there is some evidence to support that those circumstances affected an applicant's studies e.g. that they raised it with their University and/or they were diagnosed with some form of medical condition that impacted on their work. There will be a healthy dollop of scepticism if an applicant refers to circumstances with nothing to evidence the impact.

Reply 7

Original post
by chalks
I think firms will take extenuating circumstances into account if there is some evidence to support that those circumstances affected an applicant's studies e.g. that they raised it with their University and/or they were diagnosed with some form of medical condition that impacted on their work. There will be a healthy dollop of scepticism if an applicant refers to circumstances with nothing to evidence the impact.

Hi, yes I did raised it with my uni. So they sort of delayed my exams to the second sittings. Not sure if this would be an evidence? I could also submit medical reports that prove my mom’s condition.

I’m thinking that maybe I could do a second degree? Will that counteract my 2:2 grade if I got like a high 2:1 or a first?

Reply 8

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
I hope that your mother is OK.
I won't say that "degree washing" never works, and it might work for you because of the particular sad circumstances which you mention, but in general a good result in an LLM course won't sufficiently offset a bad result in a first degree course. The level of competition for training contracts is such that law firms are likely to choose the candidates with firsts and 2.1s in most instances.
Having an LLM or BCL is a bit like icing on the cake for the strongest candidates. Someone who applies, for example, to a magic circle firm or a set of barrister's chambers and who has a first in law will be more or less expected to have an LLM or a BCL as well, but other candidates won't be expected to have one.
Taking a second undergraduate degree would be expensive.
If you provide details of your circumstances in your applications, you might get a chance, but I fear that your 2.2 might see your application discarded during the initial sift.
If you target small to medium sized firms you might do better. Best of luck.

What about for firms without academic requirements? If I were to be able to demonstrate the quality they’re looking for, do I still stand a chance or will I be eliminated in the very early stage due to my poor grades?

Reply 9

Original post
by milkyyyy27
What about for firms without academic requirements? If I were to be able to demonstrate the quality they’re looking for, do I still stand a chance or will I be eliminated in the very early stage due to my poor grades?

I doubt that any firm has no academic requirements. You could try small generalist firms. Smaller firms sometimes hire paralegals and support them to qualify as solicitors.

Reply 10

Original post
by milkyyyy27
Hi, yes I did raised it with my uni. So they sort of delayed my exams to the second sittings. Not sure if this would be an evidence? I could also submit medical reports that prove my mom’s condition.
I’m thinking that maybe I could do a second degree? Will that counteract my 2:2 grade if I got like a high 2:1 or a first?

I'm not sure what you mean by "second sittings"? In any event, it seems to me that your University took steps to make allowances for, or mitigate, your circumstances. Perhaps you will say that those allowances weren't sufficient. But the issue is that potential employers might take the view that you had extenuating circumstances but those were already taken into account by giving you extra time to prepare for the exams, but you still under-performed.

Taking a full second degree will be expensive and time-consuming. You would, I assume, study a subject other than Law. Even if you were to get stellar grades, I don't think that would be sufficient to counteract your primary undergrad degree result.

You haven't said where you studied, or what work experience you've accumulated. That might help us give a more balanced view of your circumstances.

Finally, can I ask whether you're an international student?

Reply 11

All these firms that offer a training contract are trash. Go with a smaller firm.

Reply 12

What's the point of a daft comment like that?

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