Royal Air Force

BigFriendlyKid

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Reply 1

PAPYRUS HOPELINE

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Original post

by BigFriendlyKid

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Hi there, while we can't offer any specific advice around the RAF and their requirements, you may be able to find more information online via their website if you haven't already taken a look - https://recruitment.raf.mod.uk/career-and-benefits , or perhaps someone within the forum can offer more advice around that.
You have been really open within your post that you have a history of struggling with your mental health and thoughts of suicide - please know that if thoughts of suicide is still something you're experiencing HOPELINE247 is available 24/7 to support you with managing those thoughts and keeping safe. We're available by phone on 0800 068 4141, text on 88247 or email [email protected]. We also have webchat available on our website www.papyrus-uk.org.

Reply 2

Surnia

Sorry, but there's no such thing as a civilian job in the RAF; what role were you looking and where did you get this impression from? There can be civil servants in support jobs with the Forces, but even in an office-based job in the military there is a saying in the military of 'Warfighter first, job second", ie you've got to be able to fight and use a weapon.

Unfortunately, your restrictions on mobility will not allow you to join any branch of the Armed Forces as they all work to the same basic standards. You'd have to report your medical history on joining and there are fitness requirements, including sit-ups, press-ups and a bleep test.

Reply 3

NickKen

Original post

by BigFriendlyKid

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Hi there BigFriendlyKid;

I don't know how much help this will be for you but here goes:

I am a Royal Air Force Veteran, 1980 to 1984, Assistant Air Traffic Control, originally joined as a recruit RAF Regiment Gunner, they are like the Army within the RAF, airfield defence. I broke an ankle in basic training, a dodgy obstacle course set-up by the PT instructors in the gym that fell apart. First thing that happened after some pretty iffy medical advice was they tried to discharge me but I refused to sign anything, then I received an assault from another recruit, he kicked me in the head with his boots on while I was taking mine off, no reason. I worked in station admin for six months while they worked out what to do with me. Court marshalled the guy that kicked me but we both stayed in the RAF.

A corporal in station admin offered me some good advice, and this is why I didn't sign any forms that the medical staff tried to force me to sign. After six months at basic training I started to recover somewhat, and was offered two different trades, one of which was Assistant Air Traffic Controller. I completed basic training and went on to trade training at the Royal Air Force School of AIr Traffic Control at Shawbury, completed that and made S A.C. after twelve-months, and worked with anti-submarine
and Search and Rescue aircraft in Scotland.

I volunteered for service in the Falkland Islands during the South Atlantic Conflict, made it down there, came back to the UK but was shortly afterwards medically discharged with downgraded hearing.

There are jobs in the Royal Air Force that people can apply for that do not have as tough medical standards as others, my limitation after basic training was officially 'nothing that requires too much time on one's feet', due to my ankle injury, but nothing was restricted due to my head injury. Royal Air Force Police and Catering were considered a no-go but Air Traffic Control was considered much like dancing, 'lighter on one's feet' however I was never any good with rhythm so the Royal Air Force Celebrity Dancing Squad was definitely off-limits to moi also.

It is now 45-years since I joined the Royal Air Force, and 40-years since my medical discharge, I think much has changed. The British armed forces appear to be much more reasonable when it comes to recruitment and the areas people can work in. There appears to be something for everyone nowadays. My advice from here is go and speak to the friendly staff at your nearest Royal Air Force Careers Office, they don't bite any more. You can also try the Royal Air Force internet site which is very helpful.

I hope this helps;

Regards;

Nick Kenney
Royal Air Force Veteran
Merseyside UK.

Reply 4

NickKen

Original post

by Surnia

Sorry, but there's no such thing as a civilian job in the RAF; what role were you looking and where did you get this impression from? There can be civil servants in support jobs with the Forces, but even in an office-based job in the military there is a saying in the military of 'Warfighter first, job second", ie you've got to be able to fight and use a weapon.
Unfortunately, your restrictions on mobility will not allow you to join any branch of the Armed Forces as they all work to the same basic standards. You'd have to report your medical history on joining and there are fitness requirements, including sit-ups, press-ups and a bleep test.

Hello Surnia;

There are civilian jobs in the British Armed Forces, there are many roles that were once all part of the services under direct Ministry of Defence control that have been farmed out to private enterprise to cut military spending costs, especially in aircraft engineering.

One role that I can remember that I seriously wanted to do when I was serving with the Royal Air Force Air Traffic Control was meteorology, every airfield has a meteorological department on the same ground patch as the control tower, along with the fire department and ground radio section.

The Royal Air Force Met Office was a civilian trade when I was in - 1980 to 1984 - and although I became experienced in compiling the hourly weather reports for Royal Air Force aircrew, operations, and controllers, it wasn't an official RAF role. All Assistant Air Traffic Control staff had to do was nip down to the met office, every hour - on the hour; through rain, hail, sleet, and snow, pick up a completed A-5 paper weather report, duck back upstairs and chalk it up on the boards in local control and radar rooms for the controllers to pass on to the aircrews over R\T. There did used to be an official Royal Air Force MET insignia once upon a time but I believe it got the chop sometime in the 1950's.

The civilian met staff were happy for me to put the full weather report together myself using all the tools in the cage out the front of the met office. I never made a mistake and really enjoyed it, one of the reasons I eventually joined the Royal Meteorological Society as a Student Member but I'm not a member these days though.

Even the Navy, Army, and Air Force Institute, otherwise known as the good old 'NAAFI' is privately owned and run by civilians full-time now, and is required to make a profit.

No 'civilian' roles in the Royal Air Force or the other British Armed Forces? They existed during World War II, probably even earlier, and they exist today but I don't believe one applies for them through the British Armed Forces Careers Office in one's local high street.

Regards;

NickKen.

Reply 5

Ikaruss

Original post

by NickKen

Hello Surnia;
There are civilian jobs in the British Armed Forces, there are many roles that were once all part of the services under direct Ministry of Defence control that have been farmed out to private enterprise to cut military spending costs, especially in aircraft engineering.
One role that I can remember that I seriously wanted to do when I was serving with the Royal Air Force Air Traffic Control was meteorology, every airfield has a meteorological department on the same ground patch as the control tower, along with the fire department and ground radio section.
The Royal Air Force Met Office was a civilian trade when I was in - 1980 to 1984 - and although I became experienced in compiling the hourly weather reports for Royal Air Force aircrew, operations, and controllers, it wasn't an official RAF role. All Assistant Air Traffic Control staff had to do was nip down to the met office, every hour - on the hour; through rain, hail, sleet, and snow, pick up a completed A-5 paper weather report, duck back upstairs and chalk it up on the boards in local control and radar rooms for the controllers to pass on to the aircrews over R\T. There did used to be an official Royal Air Force MET insignia once upon a time but I believe it got the chop sometime in the 1950's.
The civilian met staff were happy for me to put the full weather report together myself using all the tools in the cage out the front of the met office. I never made a mistake and really enjoyed it, one of the reasons I eventually joined the Royal Meteorological Society as a Student Member but I'm not a member these days though.
Even the Navy, Army, and Air Force Institute, otherwise known as the good old 'NAAFI' is privately owned and run by civilians full-time now, and is required to make a profit.
No 'civilian' roles in the Royal Air Force or the other British Armed Forces? They existed during World War II, probably even earlier, and they exist today but I don't believe one applies for them through the British Armed Forces Careers Office in one's local high street.
Regards;
NickKen.

Hi Nick, while there have been civvy jobs within all branches of the Armed Forces for many years, I believe the OP was implying that they were looking at what appeared to be an office based role in the RAF. As Surnia (a former RAF recruiter) quite rightly stated, there is no such thing as a non-combatant role in the uniformed service. A former Kinloss Staish and VSO (Air Chief Marshal) once famously said ‘Everyone in the RAF is a war fighter first, specialist second’.

I hope you enjoyed your time in ATC and at Kinloss, you would have provided support for me for a couple of years after I arrived in 1982 🤣 Thank you!

Reply 6

NickKen

There are civilians in most Western armed forces around the world today and yesterday, we rely upon many non-combatant roles, aircraft engineering, e.g.) In-flight refuelling services, British Aerospace. Had a contract with them out in Oz. Had relatives in UK work for them. Aircraft advances feed from civilian - to RAF - back to civilian, it's a loop that has always existed. Take a broader perspective, the civvy - military connection has always been there.

Manchester Airport UK has an H.S. Nimrod along side one of the taxi-ways, with an air-to-air refuelling probe attached, a private firm, might be an admin role there. As I said previously, one may not find them specifically advertised in an RAF Careers Office, be creative with one's web searches, when one finds such a role put something like 'great interest in joining the RAF / Army / Navy' on ones application.

Had some great friends at RAF Kinloss in Air Traffic and ops, great bunch of guys and girls, 40-years, how time flies - unintended pun ~(B-). hi to all of them if they ever look in to see the feedback of the ATC article, now closed.

Best wishes;

NickKen.

Nick Ken

Reply 7

Schleigg

Nick

It seems you're conflating civilians who work alongside or for the Armed Forces and bona fide members of the Armed Forces. If you don't have a rank or a service number you are not *in* the Armed Forces even if you do the same jobs or work in the same office, and I would suggest it's doing a disservice to those who are trained and ready to deploy and fight to imply that the two are the same.

"can you join the RAF with x" was the question. Whatever may have happened in a bygone era: in the current RAF the answer is no. To bring us all together however there are many roles working alongside the RAF which do not require you to be a uniformed person with a service number and that may be more suitable for someone with a medical condition that would preclude them from standard military activity and who can contribute directly to military operations.