The Student Room Group

5th A Level in Philosophy at home?

I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.

I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)

I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.

(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)

I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.

My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?


P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

Reply 1

Original post by Adrian4082
I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.
I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)
I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.
(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)
I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.
My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?
P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

First of all this one answer your Qs but please focus on ur GCSEs and aim for 9s. Oxford is really competitive when it comes to a levels and GCSEs but specially GCSEs.

Reply 2

No-one needs 5 A levels - and you don't need an A level in Philosophy to take Maths and Phil at degree level.

Reply 3

Original post by Adrian4082
I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.
I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)
I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.
(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)
I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.
My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?
P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

Philosophy is absolutely not a requirement for Maths and Philosophy at Oxford (or anywhere). In fact, the interviews assume you have zero knowledge of Philosophy, since they want to see how you think and if you are able to discuss things in a way that makes you suitable for the Philosophy side of the course.

You can add a bit of Philosophy into your personal statement by mentioning a book you've read or ideas you've encountered from researching philosophers or ideas through YouTube videos. You have absolutely no reason to burden yourself with a fifth A level.
Original post by Adrian4082
I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.
I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)
I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.
(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)
I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.
My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?
P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

I wouldn’t advice doing anything extra qualifications on top of your 4 a levels. What will help your application is being able to write about your interest in the subject for your personal statement. Read some books, do some essay competitions, take some online courses etc
Original post by Adrian4082
I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.
I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)
I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.
(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)
I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.
My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?
P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

Id do an EPQ instead of the A-level.
You are already doing 4 A-levels. You dont need a 5th. An EPQ is a way of learning a bit about the subject, and showing interest in the subject (and giving you something to talk about). And it wont take up as much time as a full a-level so you can still focus on your a-levels and other bits.

Reply 6

Doesn’t you school do RE, as a large portion of that will be philosophy. Maybe swap music for RE if you are really interested in philosophy. Having an essay subject might also be an extra feather in your cap.

Reply 7

Original post by lalexm
Doesn’t you school do RE, as a large portion of that will be philosophy. Maybe swap music for RE if you are really interested in philosophy. Having an essay subject might also be an extra feather in your cap.

Yes, but the learning about religion side (most of the course) really doesn't interest me, and I also believe that unis see music as quite essay-based.

Reply 8

Original post by sound-famous-
Philosophy is absolutely not a requirement for Maths and Philosophy at Oxford (or anywhere). In fact, the interviews assume you have zero knowledge of Philosophy, since they want to see how you think and if you are able to discuss things in a way that makes you suitable for the Philosophy side of the course.
You can add a bit of Philosophy into your personal statement by mentioning a book you've read or ideas you've encountered from researching philosophers or ideas through YouTube videos. You have absolutely no reason to burden yourself with a fifth A level.

So do you think not even bother with an EPQ?

Reply 9

Original post by DerDracologe
I wouldn’t advice doing anything extra qualifications on top of your 4 a levels. What will help your application is being able to write about your interest in the subject for your personal statement. Read some books, do some essay competitions, take some online courses etc

So do you think no EPQ then?

Reply 10

Original post by Adrian4082
So do you think not even bother with an EPQ?

I personally wouldn't bother, but if you think you'd enjoy doing an EPQ and it won't put to much pressure on you then go for it. But I don't think it will be very valuable for your application.
Original post by Adrian4082
So do you think no EPQ then?

Obviously it’s your decision but an epq on top of 4 a levels is the same as studying 5 a levels for the year you do epq. As youre aiming really high with your choices i personally would focus on the 4 grades you need to work for. If you get to the end of year 12 and decide to drop a subject and then take up an epq then then that might work but no I wouldn’t recommend 4 a levels and an epq together. Also im not sure you can do epq as a private candidate (for aqa the spec specifies that you cant but not sure about other exam boards). You could always basically do an epq but without the exam- write a well researched essay but maybe shorter and in your own time rather than doing it epq style. Hope that helps 🙂

Reply 12

Original post by DerDracologe
Obviously it’s your decision but an epq on top of 4 a levels is the same as studying 5 a levels for the year you do epq. As youre aiming really high with your choices i personally would focus on the 4 grades you need to work for. If you get to the end of year 12 and decide to drop a subject and then take up an epq then then that might work but no I wouldn’t recommend 4 a levels and an epq together. Also im not sure you can do epq as a private candidate (for aqa the spec specifies that you cant but not sure about other exam boards). You could always basically do an epq but without the exam- write a well researched essay but maybe shorter and in your own time rather than doing it epq style. Hope that helps 🙂

Oh ok, thank you

Reply 13

Original post by Adrian4082
I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.
I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)
I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.
(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)
I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.
My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?
P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

I do philosophy A level (AQA so its pure philosophy not rs) predicted an A* - its not easy. unis dont require a level philosophy and you can showcase your interest by reading key philosophical works from famous philosophers eg descartes, John Locke, David Hume, plato, socrates. philosophy is all about logic - unis look for the quality of being able to think logically. furthermore philosophy writings are rather difficult to understand especially self taught, read philosophy and you will be fine. focus on GCSES and dont think a levels are simply a walk in the park. every a level is hard work.

Reply 14

Original post by Adrian4082
I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.
I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)
I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.
(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)
I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.
My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?
P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

probably better to do reading. see if oxford has a reading list for philosophy. n also ensure ur admission test score is strong

Reply 15

Original post by Adrian4082
I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.
I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)
I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.
(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)
I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.
My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?
P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

I took six levels and majorly regretted it: it's entirely possible, but there are so many more beneficial uses of your time. The best thing that you can do for Oxford is read, read, read. Cambridge even states on their website that they don't discriminate based on whether u do 3 or 4 levels because they understand that some people want specialisation as opposed to breadth.

Reply 16

Cambridge Maths graduate. Take 3-4 A Levels and focus on your Maths (and Philosophy)

Reply 17

Original post by Adrian4082
I'm in Year 11 now, in my last mocks I got all 9s, next year I'm hoping to study Maths, FM, Physics and Music.
I would like to study Maths at uni (possibly Oxbridge) but recently have found 'Maths with Philosophy' is something that many unis (including Oxford) offer, and that is what I think I would like to study. However, my school doesn't teach Philosophy A Level (and also doesn't do EPQs), so I'm looking for ways to show unis interest in that part of the course (and also learn about it before the degree). From what I've seen looking at the spec and textbooks, it seems to be lots of memorising/reading with a bit of essay writing, does that make it quite easy? I could also get a tutor to help with exam technique or other things like that. (Or, would a philosophy EPQ done outside of school be more helpful - the problem is that I have heard from unis that they don't place much/any importance on EPQs anymore)
I'm thinking it might not feel like too much work, especially as 60% of music is coursework, and I've been told by my teachers that I would get near full marks on that with very little effort. Also, surely Maths and FM wouldn't feel too much as it's not 'content heavy'? I would also be able to drop one subject after the first year if I wish.
(On the other hand, no uni offering this course requires specific A levels except Maths and FM)
I am also quite busy with extra-curricular music and robotics, which take up a large part of my time, but I'm planning on cutting these down a bit next year, and I haven't had any issues really so far, as I like to think I have quite good time management.
My question is basically: should I do philosophy A level outside of school as a 5th A Level, or an EPQ, or not bother and just try to do lots reading?
P.S. would philosophy A level be possible in a year, assuming I work hard enough, as then I won't have too many exams at the end of yr13?

This was strange to read because I take the exact same A levels (+EPQ). I also tried to do exactly same thing you did (study philosophy and politics on the side) as I initially started Y12 wanting to study physics and philosophy. However, trying to self-study A levels only lasted up until the end of Y12 because the workload at A level is intense. It's a lot more than you think it will be, no matter how academic you are or how easily you breeze through GCSEs.

Do not underestimate music. 35% or 25% of your A level will be performance (depending on exam board and options), which is easy if you are a strong performer (i.e. grade 8 level, good at performing under pressure). But the rest is composition, which is time-consuming. You cannot get near full marks in composition without putting in the time and effort. One of my friends has won composition prizes and is going to study music at Cambridge and still finds it very difficult to get anywhere near full marks, even with all the effort.

Similarly, further maths is difficult. Physics is difficult. Maths, to be honest, is easy if you do further maths. Don't underestimate them. A levels are exponentially harder than GCSEs, although this didn't really hit me until late Y12.

A better option as you've identified already - do lots of reading. Read and analyse philosophical texts (personal favourite - Last Days of Socrates). Enter philosophy essay competitions to guide your research. Self-teaching yourself philosophy at A level will not help you at all.

Reply 18

This was strange to read because I take the exact same A levels (+EPQ). I also tried to do exactly same thing you did (study philosophy and politics on the side) as I initially started Y12 wanting to study physics and philosophy. However, trying to self-study A levels only lasted up until the end of Y12 because the workload at A level is intense. It's a lot more than you think it will be, no matter how academic you are or how easily you breeze through GCSEs.
Do not underestimate music. 35% or 25% of your A level will be performance (depending on exam board and options), which is easy if you are a strong performer (i.e. grade 8 level, good at performing under pressure). But the rest is composition, which is time-consuming. You cannot get near full marks in composition without putting in the time and effort. One of my friends has won composition prizes and is going to study music at Cambridge and still finds it very difficult to get anywhere near full marks, even with all the effort.
Similarly, further maths is difficult. Physics is difficult. Maths, to be honest, is easy if you do further maths. Don't underestimate them. A levels are exponentially harder than GCSEs, although this didn't really hit me until late Y12.
A better option as you've identified already - do lots of reading. Read and analyse philosophical texts (personal favourite - Last Days of Socrates). Enter philosophy essay competitions to guide your research. Self-teaching yourself philosophy at A level will not help you at all.

This is really helpful, thanks.

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