Should the Russell Group break into two tiers?
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Tier 1: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL, Edinburgh, KCL, Manchester, Glasgow.
Tier 2: Bristol, Warwick, Durham, Nottingham, Birmingham, York, Queen Mary, Exeter, Sheffield, Leeds, Cardiff, Southampton, Newcastle, QUB, Liverpool.
Bath, St Andrews, and Lancaster are not in the Russell Group, but l would still put them in tier 2. Leicester and East Anglia might be candidates also.
I have compiled these lists mainly on academic reputation, which is based on research quality and intensity. Bristol would have made the first tier IMO a decade ago, but it has fallen significantly in the World rankings since then.
Tier 2: Bristol, Warwick, Durham, Nottingham, Birmingham, York, Queen Mary, Exeter, Sheffield, Leeds, Cardiff, Southampton, Newcastle, QUB, Liverpool.
Bath, St Andrews, and Lancaster are not in the Russell Group, but l would still put them in tier 2. Leicester and East Anglia might be candidates also.
I have compiled these lists mainly on academic reputation, which is based on research quality and intensity. Bristol would have made the first tier IMO a decade ago, but it has fallen significantly in the World rankings since then.
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Reply 1
I’d switch Glasgow and Warwick. Also think Bristol ranking is harsh. The rest I agree with!
Reply 2
Physician
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Original post
by user45098!I’d switch Glasgow and Warwick. Also think Bristol ranking is harsh. The rest I agree with!
Glasgow is usually higher in the World Rankings. By the looks of things, they offer more funded PhD studentships than Warwick across different disciplines, other than Maths.
Well this essentially make no sense in terms of the function of the actual Russell Group, which is a self selected and self governing lobbying group masquerading as a research consortium. Not an indicator of undergraduate league table rankings.
Why would a lobby group split in two based on the opinion of one person on TSR?
Reply 5
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Original post
by artful_loungerWell this essentially make no sense in terms of the function of the actual Russell Group, which is a self selected and self governing lobbying group masquerading as a research consortium. Not an indicator of undergraduate league table rankings.
Undergraduate league tables . . . LOL. You have to be ignorant to trust those mickey mouse rankings. The real tables that employers, global governments, and Vice Chancellors care about by a million miles are the THES and QS World rankings.
Original post
by Physician Undergraduate league tables . . . LOL. You have to be ignorant to trust those mickey mouse rankings. The real tables that employers, global governments, and Vice Chancellors care about by a million miles are the THES and QS World rankings.
Employers most certainly don't give a toss about the THES or QS World Rankings which are essentially equivalent to undergraduate league tables in usefulness (i.e. not at all).
Reply 7
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Original post
by PQWhy would a lobby group split in two based on the opinion of one person on TSR?
It already has to some degree. The G5 of Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial and UCL has existed for decades, and students from around the globe who apply to study in London are aware of it. But in my view a few more UK universities deserve to be in that mix.
Reply 8
Original post
by Physician It already has to some degree. The G5 of Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial and UCL has existed for decades, and students from a Ross the globe who apply to study in London are aware of it. But in my view a few more UK universities deserve to be in that mix.
Can confirm these 5 plus maybe KCL are all far clear of the others
Reply 9
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Original post
by artful_loungerEmployers most certainly don't give a toss about the THES or QS World Rankings which are essentially equivalent to undergraduate league tables in usefulness (i.e. not at all).
And there you have it. Somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about. I was referring to elite employers, such as top law firms, investment banks, management consultancies, and even universities. Though they only use them as a general guide, and not as a black and white filter.
Reply 10
Original post
by Coff1312313Can confirm these 5 plus maybe KCL are all far clear of the others
For economics or finance specifically i'd argue its even more of a tripartite system of Oxbridge/LSE
Reply 11
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Original post
by Coff1312313Can confirm these 5 plus maybe KCL are all far clear of the others
If KCL is, then Edinburgh and Manchester most certainly are too. Glasgow is the only one just a bit further behind these.
Reply 12
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Original post
by Coff1312313For economics or finance specifically i'd argue its even more of a tripartite system of Oxbridge/LSE
We aren't looking at these by cherry picking certain subjects.
Reply 13
Original post
by Physician If KCL is, then Edinburgh and Manchester most certainly are too. Glasgow is the only one just a bit further behind these.
To be fair i think apart from those 5 it has to be confined to that, theres too many close arguably 6th places like Warwick, Durham etc and so on that are on similar levels (imo) to manchester/glasgow etc
Reply 14
Original post
by Physician We aren't looking at these by cherry picking certain subjects.
You are the one that mentioned investment banking firms which most certainly cherry pick LSE students as shown by them being hired 3x the representation of any other uni
Reply 15
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Original post
by Coff1312313You are the one that mentioned investment banking firms which most certainly cherry pick LSE students as shown by them being hired 3x the representation of any other uni
Investment Banks hire from a range of Russell Group universities. They might hire more graduates as a percentage from Oxbridge and LSE, but plenty of students from lesser Russell Group universities make it through the selection process.
Reply 16
Physician
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Original post
by Coff1312313To be fair i think apart from those 5 it has to be confined to that, theres too many close arguably 6th places like Warwick, Durham etc and so on that are on similar levels (imo) to manchester/glasgow etc
Not a chance of it. Durham is a leader in Law, Humanities, and English. Warwick likewise in Maths, Economics and Stem. But across the board they don't cut it, being too small and underfunded. The question really is whether Glasgow should moved to the second tier.
(edited 1 year ago)
Reply 17
Original post
by Physician Investment Banks hire from a range of Russell Group universities. They might hire more graduates as a percentage from Oxbridge and LSE, but plenty of students from lesser Russell Group universities make it through the selection process.
Perfectly reasonable, i never said they did not hire from other universities, but i believe that those three universities as significantly ahead of the rest in terms of demographic of investment banks, ive seen reports before that some investment banks have 5x more LSE students than any other university, and yes this may be a partial factor of them being based in London already
Reply 18
Original post
by Physician Not a chance of it. Durham is a leader in Law, Humanities, and English. Warwick likewise in Maths, Economics and Stem. But across the board they don't cut it, being too small and underfunded.
Fair point, I'm pretty sure Durham doesn't do medicine either?
Reply 19
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Original post
by Coff1312313Perfectly reasonable, i never said they did not hire from other universities, but i believe that those three universities as significantly ahead of the rest in terms of demographic of investment banks, ive seen reports before that some investment banks have 5x more LSE students than any other university, and yes this may be a partial factor of them being based in London already
I don't agree there. UCL and Imperial would be high up as well. Investment Banks don't just hire geeks with super brain power. They want to see evidence of social skills, team work and a range of other skills.
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