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Law university ranking matter?

Ranking for law degree does it matter for future? If it’s from Sussex or Manchester or Nottingham ?

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Reply 1

Original post
by Dima shukri
Ranking for law degree does it matter for future? If it’s from Sussex or Manchester or Nottingham ?

Dont overly rely on rankings. League tables vary quite vastly.

Maybe you could look closely into the course structures, go to the open days and see which unis you prefer.

Reply 2

What matters is the quality of your education. I have been involved in recruiting for barristers' chambers and law firms for years, and university rankings have never influenced any decision.

Reply 3

Of those, Nottingham has the best graduate prospects for Law if you're looking to be employed in something you want to do, according to The Complete University Guide.
Nottingham also has the best research quality in Law of those. Whilst research quality isn't vital to undergraduate experience, it is an indicator of the intellect of the staff.
I wouldn't just go from these things when deciding where to spend several years of your life but Nottingham looks a really nice campus.

Reply 4

"Research quality" is a meaningless quantitative measure falsely presented as a qualitative measure. This measure has no bearing on the quality of the academic staff at a university.

Reply 5

Original post
by Dima shukri
Ranking for law degree does it matter for future? If it’s from Sussex or Manchester or Nottingham ?

Ranking means nothing, reputation carries significant weight with specific legal career paths. Id say Nottingham clearly the strongest followed by Manchester then Sussex.

Reply 6

Original post
by Picnicl
But, with someone said to be Oxford educated like yourself, it feels like you're pulling the ladder up behind you when you claim that employers don't care about the university you went to. It shows taste if nothing else to prefer to be at some universities than others. Students from Nottingham are more often employed by Magic Circle Law firms than the other two.

What a bizarre comment.

Reply 7

Original post
by Picnicl
How is it a bizarre comment when it contains nothing but facts? You should not be encouraging people to think little where a prestigious field is concerned. You give a lot of advice and some of it is ****,
Do you deny that the Magic Circle firms employ more Nottingham grads than Manchester or Sussex ones?

Your comment about pulling a ladder up is bizarre. I have no idea what your beef is.

Reply 8

I have made no such suggestion. But in any event, university rankings are piffle. People should study at the place which best suits them and pay no attention to things which have no bearing on their futures.

Reply 9

Original post
by Picnicl
How is it a bizarre comment when it contains nothing but facts? You should not be encouraging people to think little where a prestigious field is concerned. You give a lot of advice and some of it is ****,
Do you deny that the Magic Circle firms employ more Nottingham grads than Manchester or Sussex ones?

I can't find the statistics which show that more MC lawyers went to Nottingham than Manchester: could you share a link, please?

Reply 10

Original post
by chalks
I can't find the statistics which show that more MC lawyers went to Nottingham than Manchester: could you share a link, please?

www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities-2019

It says 'The City Firms' (to mean London firms). Not exclusively Magic Circle, to be fair.

And as per The Complete University Guide, despite average entry grades for subjects in general of Manchester students being higher than average entry grades for subjects in general of Nottingham students, for Law Nottingham has higher average entry grades. To be able to achieve that takes confidence in yourself as a department and confidence by students in your university for that department.

All that said, if someone prefers to be at Manchester University, e.g. if they have specific reasons why, like facilities, go where they feel to be best in itself or for them. For example, of the 3 universities, it appears that only Manchester has a moot court.

Reply 11

Original post
by Picnicl
www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities-2019
It says 'The City Firms' (to mean London firms). Not exclusively Magic Circle, to be fair.
And as per The Complete University Guide, despite average entry grades of Manchester students being higher than average entry grades achieved by Nottingham students, for Law Nottingham has higher average entry grades. To be able to achieve that takes confidence in yourself as a department and confidence by students in your university for that department.
All that said, if someone prefers to be at Manchester University, particularly if they have specific academic reasons why, like facilities and course, go where they feel to be best in itself or for them. For example, of the 3 universities, it appears that only Manchester has a moot court.

I think there's some difficulties in relying on a survey like this and, therefore, making sweeping assertions that "Nottingham has the best graduate prospects for Law if you're looking to be employed in something you want to do", although I appreciate you've caveated your position somewhat.

A few points on the research, and this goes to Mark Twain's critique of statistics:

The research dates from three years across 2016-2018, so takes no account of changes in the success of graduates over the last 6-7 years.

The sample size is good, but still only accounts for 15-20% of the trainee cohort across that three year period.

The difference (generally) between the two Uni's we're talking about (Nottingham & Manchester) is a percentage point or two.


The short point is that I wouldn't recommend relying on this information to determine a choice between those two universities if my chosen career path was the City. There are too many other variables which will impact on your potential success, not least @Stiffy Byng's point that law firms have been increasingly recruiting University "blind" over the last 5 years.

Reply 12

Original post
by Dima shukri
Ranking for law degree does it matter for future? If it’s from Sussex or Manchester or Nottingham ?

Hey!

The short answer is yes and no, it depends on what you want to do after your law degree.

If you’re aiming for top City law firms or highly competitive chambers, university ranking can play a role, as some firms have traditional preferences for universities with a strong reputation in law. That being said, it’s not the only thing that matters—law firms care more about your grades (a strong 2:1 or First), work experience (vac schemes, internships, pro bono work), and commercial awareness rather than just the name of your uni.

Sussex, Manchester, and Nottingham all have well-respected law schools, and plenty of students from these universities go on to secure training contracts and pupillages. Manchester and Nottingham tend to be more ‘targeted’ by larger firms for events and networking opportunities, but that doesn’t mean Sussex grads don’t get the same opportunities—it just means you might need to be a bit more proactive in seeking out networking and work experience.

Ultimately, if you perform well, gain experience, and develop strong legal skills, you can still have a great legal career regardless of where you study. If you’re torn between these universities, consider factors like course structure, employability support, networking opportunities, and where you’d be happiest studying!

Hope that helps!

Reply 13

First of all you dont need a law degree to work in law in the UK.

Second of all if it's not Oxbridge or LSE I promise you employers dont care

Reply 14

I'd say it's not so much the name that matters; it's the opportunities you get when you're there.

I've just graduated from Uni of Nottingham LLB + the law societies would be my number one pro to going there. Career opportunities for aspiring commercial solicitors seem to be exceptional (I'm going the Bar route so can't say from firsthand knowledge but the vast majority of the Law Society was focused on that). Also constant competitions of varying standards. Maybe my friends in law at other universities chose not to get involved as much but I heard nothing of the level that we had.

From what I can remember from an open day years ago, oxbridge have extra funding. Whereas usually you're (supposedly) getting £9k worth of education, at oxbridge it equates to something around £24k. I think that definitely weighs in their favour on the rankings.

Reply 15

To give an idea of funding disparities, the University of Nottingham's endowment is £78.1 million. The University of Oxford's endowment (including the endowments of its constituent colleges) is £8.08 billion. Oxford colleges make a financial loss on the teaching of each undergraduate, and also subsidise student food and accommodation. Oxford makes money through graduate courses, monetisation of research, and investments in land and other assets.

Reply 16

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
What matters is the quality of your education. I have been involved in recruiting for barristers' chambers and law firms for years, and university rankings have never influenced any decision.


I do realise that I am seeing this 4 months later so sorry for asking now lol. But I was just wondering since you have been involved in recruiting in law firms what would you say employers look for when recruiting graduates? Is it more so about how much experience they have? their grade? The university they went to? Or is it a bit of everything?

Reply 17

Original post
by Sss..223
I do realise that I am seeing this 4 months later so sorry for asking now lol. But I was just wondering since you have been involved in recruiting in law firms what would you say employers look for when recruiting graduates? Is it more so about how much experience they have? their grade? The university they went to? Or is it a bit of everything?

Same question

Reply 18

Recruitment of candidates at entry level is based on assessment of potential to thrive as a practising lawyer doing the type of work that the firm or set of chambers usually does. Potential is demonstrated by academic achievements to date, by any relevant work experience, and by performance in selection exercises and interviews.

Many firms and sets of chambers now recruit university-blind. It may once have been the case that that recruitment decisions were made at least partly on the basis of the name of the university at which a candidate studied, but that practice has died out at the higher end of the market.

Recruitment of established practitioners is based mainly on relevant experience, and, at senior level, mainly on the ability to bring or to generate new business. Academic achievements are of relatively little importance when recruiting lateral hires who have a track record in practice. Professional life is to some extent a series of gateways. In broad terms, good A levels get you into a good university. A good degree gets you into a good job. The good first job gets you the good second job, and so on.

All organisations have a tendency to replicate themselves in their own image, so there is the controversial and sometimes unspoken element of "fit". Recruiters have to be careful here not to engage in stereotyping, and the most careful ones try not to recruit an endless series of clones who follow typical patterns.

Organisations deploy more or less sophisticated methods to aim for neutrality on sex, race, religion, disability, and so on. There is a current debate in the world of work about the extent to which DEI practices in fact operate as "stay in your lane" barriers to inclusion, and are more about virtue-signalling and the favouring of some privileged groups over others rather than real diversity.

Regardless of that debate, note the persistent impact of socio-economic inequality on professional opportunities. When I started at the Bar in the 1980s, the profession was mainly white, male, and posh. It became less white, much less male, and a fair bit less posh, but, along with all other graduate professions, it is becoming a bit posher again because of the cost of training and the Bank of Mum and Dad factor. Things are even worse in journalism, acting, and other professions where it's hard to get in unless you have money behind you. At least the law offers some scholarships.

I saw somewhere, but cannot now find, an article that suggested that recruiting university-blind might result in reinforcement of the traditional recruiting patterns, because candidates from the most competitive universities tend to out-perform candidates from less competitive universities, and the recruiters can't then say "Well, X did very well considering that she/he went to that crappy school and that dodgy university, whereas Y has cruised through Winchester and New College without breaking a sweat", because the recruiters don't have the info to do so.

I don't know what the answer is here. I think that, on balance, university-blind is best. A not so very secret secret of UK life is that the experience of Oxbridge, if enjoyed, is so intense and enjoyable that Oxbridge graduates have a tendency to flock together because they have that shared experience, and perhaps to some extent a similarity of approaching tasks, having been schooled in organisations which have for centuries been training people to be members of the learned professions, the senior civil service, the top end of the media, and so on. Other hot-house institutions such as UCL, LSE, TCD, Insead, and so on can produce similar effects. I think that most people are honest and fair minded, but humans are humans, and we can all be subject to biases of which we may not be fully aware.
(edited 6 months ago)

Reply 19

Original post
by Stiffy Byng
Recruitment of candidates at entry level is based on assessment of potential to thrive as a practising lawyer doing the type of work that the firm or set of chambers usually does. Potential is demonstrated by academic achievements to date, by any relevant work experience, and by performance in selection exercises and interviews.
Many firms and sets of chambers now recruit university-blind. It may once have been the case that that recruitment decisions were made at least partly on the basis of the name of the university at which a candidate studied, but that practice has died out at the higher end of the market.
Recruitment of established practitioners is based mainly on relevant experience, and, at senior level, mainly on the ability to bring or to generate new business. Academic achievements are of relatively little importance when recruiting lateral hires who have a track record in practice. Professional life is to some extent a series of gateways. In broad terms, good A levels get you into a good university. A good degree gets you into a good job. The good first job gets you the good second job, and so on.
All organisations have a tendency to replicate themselves in their own image, so there is the controversial and sometimes unspoken element of "fit". Recruiters have to be careful here not to engage in stereotyping, and the most careful ones try not to recruit an endless series of clones who follow typical patterns.
Organisations deploy more or less sophisticated methods to aim for neutrality on sex, race, religion, disability, and so on. There is a current debate in the world of work about the extent to which DEI practices in fact operate as "stay in your lane" barriers to inclusion, and are more about virtue-signalling and the favouring of some privileged groups over others rather than real diversity.
Regardless of that debate, note the persistent impact of socio-economic inequality on professional opportunities. When I started at the Bar in the 1980s, the profession was mainly white, male, and posh. It became less white, much less male, and a fair bit less posh, but, along with all other graduate professions, it is becoming a bit posher again because of the cost of training and the Bank of Mum and Dad factor. Things are even worse in journalism, acting, and other professions where it's hard to get in unless you have money behind you. At least the law offers some scholarships.
I saw somewhere, but cannot now find, an article that suggested that recruiting university-blind might result in reinforcement of the traditional recruiting patterns, because candidates from the most competitive universities tend to out-perform candidates from less competitive universities, and the recruiters can't then say "Well, X did very well considering that she/he went to that crappy school and that dodgy university, whereas Y has cruised through Winchester and New College without breaking a sweat", because the recruiters don't have the info to do so.
I don't know what the answer is here. I think that, on balance, university-blind is best. A not so very secret secret of UK life is that the experience of Oxbridge, if enjoyed, is so intense and enjoyable that Oxbridge graduates have a tendency to flock together because they have that shared experience, and perhaps to some extent a similarity of approaching tasks, having been schooled in organisations which have for centuries been training people to be members of the learned professions, the senior civil service, the top end of the media, and so on. Other hot-house institutions such as UCL, LSE, TCD, Insead, and so on can produce similar effects. I think that most people are honest and fair minded, but humans are humans, and we can all be subject to biases of which we may not be fully aware.


Thank you so much! Your explanation was really clear and detailed, it answered my question perfectly.

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