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LSE vs UCL for Quant

I know UCL math is way better than the math at LSE (yes yes LSE is know for E and doesnt have straight math etc etc) but UCL isnt the best for math, so do people think LSEs prestige make up the difference in math rigor for quant (specifically trading ik research prob no and dev Im not interested)? Whilst quant isnt financial and basically very mathematical, will LSE prestige in finance industry atleast let me get some internships and close its gap with UCL math in other ways? (As id prefer LSE ofc)

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Reply 1

Original post by Anonymous
I know UCL math is way better than the math at LSE (yes yes LSE is know for E and doesnt have straight math etc etc) but UCL isnt the best for math, so do people think LSEs prestige make up the difference in math rigor for quant (specifically trading ik research prob no and dev Im not interested)? Whilst quant isnt financial and basically very mathematical, will LSE prestige in finance industry atleast let me get some internships and close its gap with UCL math in other ways? (As id prefer LSE ofc)

Unfortunately, due to how competitive getting a job in the quant industry is, universities that are more mathematically rigorous are usually the better choice. I know a few people who are quants and they said that most people that work in the industry go to those high tier universities: Oxbridge, Imperial, UCL, etc. As you mentioned before, LSE is known for econ and unfortunately, the strong reputation of LSE is tied in other financial sectors like IB rather than in Quant. That is a big misconception that many people have and is the reason why LSE does not really produce as may Quants as other unis do. My advice would be to go to UCL if you are serious in wanting to become a quant.
(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 2

I run a hedge fund. Our tier-1 UK unis for quant are Cambridge, Imperial and Warwick (maths) - these three names are considered equally competitive, and it all gets down to the technical skills that the candidates have acquired (and the courses that they have taken at university). Second-tier unis are Oxford and UCL. LSE unfortunately does not make the cut as it is not well known for maths.

Reply 3

Original post by Anonymous48
Unfortunately, due to how competitive getting a job in the quant industry is, universities that are more mathematically rigorous are usually the better choice. I know a few people who are quants and they said that most people that work in the industry go to those high tier universities: Oxbridge, Imperial, UCL, etc. As you mentioned before, LSE is known for econ and unfortunately, the strong reputation of LSE is tied in other financial sectors like IB rather than in Quant. That is a big misconception that many people have and is the reason why LSE does not really produce as may Quants as other unis do. My advice would be to go to UCL if you are serious in wanting to become a quant.

Yh I knew LSE was big on IB as opposed to quant (meant to be hinted when I said prestige in finance but ig not clear). I just wanted to know if the prestige makes up, disregard less of the specific fields desired subject (math rigor). Im assuming this is a common standing that it doesnt ig? I had hope as my friends relative works in quant, and have met a few LSE grads there. I asked and they said that the things they learnt at LSE (specific modules) were desirable/enough to be QTrader (not research or dev)- e.g typical stochastics, probability/stats, differentials some ML etc. (Specific degrees of Financial Math and Stats, Math and Data science etc.
Am I wrong to think that unis like UCL's math being known as more rigorous is only because of the strongly pure topics like primes, groups/rings, number theory etc are available that aren't really that important for QT. And that LSE's structure is more teaching basic pure, then learning only a few advanced topics to apply to financial markets which makes it technically less "mathematical"?
Was thinking Financial math is technically just applied math that some employers seek?

Do you also think its to do with the fact, if UCL students are doing "harder" pure math, it makes them "smarter" which is reflected in interviews? And if an LSE student can demonstrate ability in interviews its fine (assuming they pass screening)?

Reply 4

Original post by Anonymous
I run a hedge fund. Our tier-1 UK unis for quant are Cambridge, Imperial and Warwick (maths) - these three names are considered equally competitive, and it all gets down to the technical skills that the candidates have acquired (and the courses that they have taken at university). Second-tier unis are Oxford and UCL. LSE unfortunately does not make the cut as it is not well known for maths.

If allowed, could you please explain the methodology behind placing Imperial and Warwick above Oxford? I saw data collected that Oxford places more people in quant industry than both those unis so just surprising it to be seen as 2nd tier. When you look for QTraders, do you strictly only use uni for screening? Or are modules taken a big part of it (reflected in the CV)? Because only this year I believe did UCL overtake LSE in math rankings (for the CUG may be wrong tho).The wording just makes it sound to me like prestige for math is a large indicator (by the "well known for math" bit) but probably not. I am waiting on a response from Imperial too which I am most likely to take over LSE, its just online from what I've seen some say LSE is a clear no go, whilst others say its fine for QT and not any other area in Q. From your experience does LSE still never make "the cut" (for QT)?

Reply 5

When you have your Master/PhD in maths from any of the COWI+UCL, this would be enough for you to secure an interview with a HF. At the interview, you will be grilled heavily on the technical fronts, and there are certain maths areas (eg. ODE/PDE, Optimization, Statistical Analysis, Random process) which are heavily quant-relevant. At Camb/Imp/Warwick, their maths programs seem to be quite flexible (esp Warwick), and any quant-to-be students there would take more modules which are quant related. Oxford and UCL run great maths programs, but their structure seem to be less flexible. I guess this may be the reason why we find Camb/Imp/Warwick candidates to be very competitive in an interview.

Reply 6

LSE has a great reputation in finance/economics. However, when it comes to Maths, we would put it in the same tier as Durham, Bath, Edinburgh, KCL etc. Bearing in mind that the job market for quant analysts is small (compared to IB/PE/VC or Finance), and a good analyst can help their PM to run hundreds of millions of capital already. There is no shortage of great talent from COWI+UCL already.

In IB, an degree from a prestigious univ would help your team win a mandate. However, in HF, your technical capabilities can make a great impact on whether your PM can make serious money. So as long as you graduate from COWI+UCL, our selection criteria will focus heavily on your technical skills, rather than which COWI univ you have studied at.

Reply 7

Another point I would like to make. Many people favor London univs, because of the location (hence better networking opportunities -> higher chance of landing a job). While this might be true for IB/Finance roles, this does not necessary apply to HFs. Most of the HFs (e.g. MLP, Citdael, P72 etc) have very well-structured internship / graduate placement programs. You do not need to be in London to be aware of those opportunities (as they will definitely advertise through the univ's career offices).

Reply 8

Original post by Anonymous
LSE has a great reputation in finance/economics. However, when it comes to Maths, we would put it in the same tier as Durham, Bath, Edinburgh, KCL etc. Bearing in mind that the job market for quant analysts is small (compared to IB/PE/VC or Finance), and a good analyst can help their PM to run hundreds of millions of capital already. There is no shortage of great talent from COWI+UCL already.
In IB, an degree from a prestigious univ would help your team win a mandate. However, in HF, your technical capabilities can make a great impact on whether your PM can make serious money. So as long as you graduate from COWI+UCL, our selection criteria will focus heavily on your technical skills, rather than which COWI univ you have studied at.

Are there any other Universities you would consider for a quant job if the child did a Maths degree from? Asking as from what I can currently see - Imperial, UCL is geared so much to international students that the UK graduates even if very bright may not get in as they have less seats for uk graduates. Oxbridge - well there the issue is that you are competing against depravity......large focus at Oxbridge is on of late meeting the Diversity tick box and widening participation criteria candidates....... they often get in even if they miss their grades. So if a child who is a brilliant has to end up say going to Birmingham , Bath, Lancaster, Bristol - Would your company give them a chance to interview or not ?

Reply 9

I know there are so many talented people outside. But the HFs have so many applications and it is impossible to interview each of them. Even though if your graduate from COWI or T10 US universities, it does not mean you will get a job from a HF easily. We have rejected so many candidates from top tier universities

Reply 10

Original post by Anonymous
Are there any other Universities you would consider for a quant job if the child did a Maths degree from? Asking as from what I can currently see - Imperial, UCL is geared so much to international students that the UK graduates even if very bright may not get in as they have less seats for uk graduates. Oxbridge - well there the issue is that you are competing against depravity......large focus at Oxbridge is on of late meeting the Diversity tick box and widening participation criteria candidates....... they often get in even if they miss their grades. So if a child who is a brilliant has to end up say going to Birmingham , Bath, Lancaster, Bristol - Would your company give them a chance to interview or not ?

Hi. Im not a professional ,like the self proclaimed HF manager above, and I did ask the question to begin with but I have spoken to a few people in the industry now (that I can and have proper evidence to check for myself as I got their LinkedIn) . From what i've learnt it depends 1, on whether its buy or sell side, and 2 what your goals are. I have met multiple quants now some from bristol and lse (many others older but with lots of experience) and most of them did a masters (common ones being Imperial Math and Finance etc). Whilst its true Oxbridge and Imperial make the most quants, if your genuinely academically good enough and aren't aiming for the top of the top (I'm talking like the highest band like 150k+ out of grad) then you can make it without the most elite tier uni credentials. I'm unsure if the other commentor works at a very small or elitist HF but I even spoke to an LSE grad at Jane Street (who also did their PHD at LSE for Financial Stats). Competition is still insane and you ought to still go to a top school (I think bath and bristol may cut it if your willing to do a masters) but unless you want a quant RESEARCHING role specifically, your fine. Some firms (especially smaller shops) bunch together or mix the roles of research, trader and dev but in generality, a researcher ought to be a grad from top top school with math master or phd, dev ought to do cs and trader you need a gentle mix of both. This is not to say devs dont use math or researchers dont code (as many will) its just how heavy they weigh. Many do a simply google search and see something like "quant researchers program 90% of the time" and believe they are experts of the field. Unless I've gotten info from a hyper specific source, their programming does NOT entail that of devs with cs focus. The people I spoke to (specifically quant traders as thats what Im interested in) emphasised a knack for good statistical/mathematical intuition and decent programming, as opposed to incredibly strong mathematical modelling ability or knowledge of 10000 programming languages. Take this with a grain of salt but speaking on multiple platforms and being fortunate enough to speak to people I am blessed to have contact with has concluded me with this. If anyone strongly disagrees or has alternative opinions feel free to share.

Reply 11

Original post by Anonymous
Are there any other Universities you would consider for a quant job if the child did a Maths degree from? Asking as from what I can currently see - Imperial, UCL is geared so much to international students that the UK graduates even if very bright may not get in as they have less seats for uk graduates. Oxbridge - well there the issue is that you are competing against depravity......large focus at Oxbridge is on of late meeting the Diversity tick box and widening participation criteria candidates....... they often get in even if they miss their grades. So if a child who is a brilliant has to end up say going to Birmingham , Bath, Lancaster, Bristol - Would your company give them a chance to interview or not ?

For fresh graduates, we will only shortlist candidates from our target unis. We have plenty of supply from those schools for entry-level quant jobs, and it is impossible for us to interview each one of them.

For experienced hires, we would look more on the skills / experiences possessed by the candidates, with less focus on which univs they are coming from (of course, if two candidates possess similar experience / skill-sets, the one coming from a target uni still has an advantage).

Reply 12

Original post by Anonymous
I run a hedge fund. Our tier-1 UK unis for quant are Cambridge, Imperial and Warwick (maths) - these three names are considered equally competitive, and it all gets down to the technical skills that the candidates have acquired (and the courses that they have taken at university). Second-tier unis are Oxford and UCL. LSE unfortunately does not make the cut as it is not well known for maths.

What about Warwick MORSE? Is that seen as a good subject to get into quant?

Reply 13

Original post by Anonymous
What about Warwick MORSE? Is that seen as a good subject to get into quant?


Straight maths

Reply 14

Original post by Anonymous
I know UCL math is way better than the math at LSE (yes yes LSE is know for E and doesnt have straight math etc etc) but UCL isnt the best for math, so do people think LSEs prestige make up the difference in math rigor for quant (specifically trading ik research prob no and dev Im not interested)? Whilst quant isnt financial and basically very mathematical, will LSE prestige in finance industry atleast let me get some internships and close its gap with UCL math in other ways? (As id prefer LSE ofc)

Why don't you go Oxbridge or Imperial?

Reply 15

Also go read Alex Karp's book "The Technological Republic" and aim to make an actual, real impact in the world in modern industries. You have decided to close off your mind to a small subset of the finance space that largely serves itself and I urge you to rethink while you still can. Don't kid yourself that the world of finance is there to improve the world either; it's not - it's out to enrich itself and occasionally its clients too.

Reply 16

Original post by Anonymous
Hi. Im not a professional ,like the self proclaimed HF manager above, and I did ask the question to begin with but I have spoken to a few people in the industry now (that I can and have proper evidence to check for myself as I got their LinkedIn) . From what i've learnt it depends 1, on whether its buy or sell side, and 2 what your goals are. I have met multiple quants now some from bristol and lse (many others older but with lots of experience) and most of them did a masters (common ones being Imperial Math and Finance etc). Whilst its true Oxbridge and Imperial make the most quants, if your genuinely academically good enough and aren't aiming for the top of the top (I'm talking like the highest band like 150k+ out of grad) then you can make it without the most elite tier uni credentials. I'm unsure if the other commentor works at a very small or elitist HF but I even spoke to an LSE grad at Jane Street (who also did their PHD at LSE for Financial Stats). Competition is still insane and you ought to still go to a top school (I think bath and bristol may cut it if your willing to do a masters) but unless you want a quant RESEARCHING role specifically, your fine. Some firms (especially smaller shops) bunch together or mix the roles of research, trader and dev but in generality, a researcher ought to be a grad from top top school with math master or phd, dev ought to do cs and trader you need a gentle mix of both. This is not to say devs dont use math or researchers dont code (as many will) its just how heavy they weigh. Many do a simply google search and see something like "quant researchers program 90% of the time" and believe they are experts of the field. Unless I've gotten info from a hyper specific source, their programming does NOT entail that of devs with cs focus. The people I spoke to (specifically quant traders as thats what Im interested in) emphasised a knack for good statistical/mathematical intuition and decent programming, as opposed to incredibly strong mathematical modelling ability or knowledge of 10000 programming languages. Take this with a grain of salt but speaking on multiple platforms and being fortunate enough to speak to people I am blessed to have contact with has concluded me with this. If anyone strongly disagrees or has alternative opinions feel free to share.

I would suggest that you compare the optional maths modules offered by UCL against those offered by Imperial/Warwick. The number of optional maths modules at Imperial/Warwick is at least 3x of those offered by UCL. Imperial/Warwick maths students can tailor their study to take more quant-related courses. Perhaps this is the reason why we find COWI maths grads are stronger in terms of technical skills. UCL maths is generally perceived as "easier" compared to COWI.

Reply 17

https://www.quantstart.com/articles/The-Top-5-UK-Universities-For-Becoming-A-Quant/

I stumbled upon this article. Even though this was written a few years back, most of the comments written by the author still hold imo.

Reply 18

Original post by Anonymous
Also go read Alex Karp's book "The Technological Republic" and aim to make an actual, real impact in the world in modern industries. You have decided to close off your mind to a small subset of the finance space that largely serves itself and I urge you to rethink while you still can. Don't kid yourself that the world of finance is there to improve the world either; it's not - it's out to enrich itself and occasionally its clients too.

100% agree with you. Nowadays, when you look at all those social media, literally every kid wants to pivot to quant roles regardless of their academic background and strengths. Perhaps they are drawn to this because of the "insane" pay made to new hires by firm like Citadel, MLP etc. But I guess most of them do not know what being a quant is all about, and whether it is something that would interest (other than money) them in the long run.

Reply 19

Original post by Anonymous
I run a hedge fund. Our tier-1 UK unis for quant are Cambridge, Imperial and Warwick (maths) - these three names are considered equally competitive, and it all gets down to the technical skills that the candidates have acquired (and the courses that they have taken at university). Second-tier unis are Oxford and UCL. LSE unfortunately does not make the cut as it is not well known for maths.

Oxford is below Warwick? Second-Tier? Are you serious?

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