Oxford of Cambridge engineering

Original post by redbelsham

I'm in year 12 studying maths further maths Physics with gcse's 99999998888. I'm pretty confident I'll meet grade requirements for both unis also. One reason I'm stuck between them is that I've heard that oxford offers a more theoretical, maths/physics heavy course while Cambridge's is more hands on/applied. I tend to lean towards Oxford in this aspect since I prefer learning the fundamentals and derivations rather than seeing how they apply in practice.
However Cambridge allows you to specialise in aerospace but Oxford doesn't. Ive been looking at aerospace for quite a while now and am pretty sure that its what I want to do post uni. For this reason I lean towards Cambridge.
On the other hand, maybe Oxford is the better course and that I could just take up some classes that gear towards aero, and then specialise in aero in a Masters of PhD. Am I planning too far ahead with this thought?
Nonetheless, I'm also going to apply to Imperial which requires me to take the ESAT, similar to Cambridge. For Oxford I would take the PAT. Therefore is it better to just go with Cambridge to avoid the extra hurdle of taking two admissions tests? Or what if I do bad in one of the tests could I see the other test as another opportunity to do well?
If you could correct any misconceptions or provide any advice I would be extremely thankful.
Thanks

Are you only studying 3 A-Levels in Maths, Further Maths and Physics? 😧 Because just under half of applicants have 4 A-Levels and A-Level Further Maths as their fourth A-Level subject. But it just means you would be expected to achieve A*A*A or even A*A*A*.

I would go for Oxford as you would sit the PAT, and Imperial the ESAT.

I wonder, are you studying Further Mechanics 1 and Further Mechanics 2 if you're taking A-Level Pearson Edexcel Further Maths?

Also, you could do an MSc in Aerospace Engineering after graduating with a degree from Oxford. 😉

St. John's, Wadham, Hertford and Worcester might be good colleges for you perhaps? Be sure to visit them in July or September at the Open Days?

Colleges - Oxford University Alternative Prospectus

(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 2

Stiffy Byng

19

The OP is studying Maths, Further Maths, and Physics and has no need of a fourth A level.

Reply 3

redbelsham

OP

4

Original post by thegeek888

Are you only studying 3 A-Levels in Maths, Further Maths and Physics? 😧 Because just under half of applicants have 4 A-Levels and A-Level Further Maths as their fourth A-Level subject. But it just means you would be expected to achieve A*A*A or even A*A*A*.
I would go for Oxford as you would sit the PAT, and Imperial the ESAT.
I wonder, are you studying Further Mechanics 1 and Further Mechanics 2 if you're taking A-Level Pearson Edexcel Further Maths?
Also, you could do an MSc in Aerospace Engineering after graduating with a degree from Oxford. 😉
St. John's, Wadham, Hertford and Worcester might be good colleges for you perhaps? Be sure to visit them in July or September at the Open Days?
Colleges - Oxford University Alternative Prospectus

Thanks very much for your reply (I need to decide relatively soon since my school has target groups for different courses at Oxbridge).

I don't want to get complacent but I've been above 90% for in every test so far and am predicted A*A*A*, so i think this is achievable for me.

What is your reason for choosing the PAT over ESAT. Is it easier or just a preference?

Yeah my school do Further mechanics 1 and 2 I'm pretty sure but we don't start it until year 13 since we cover all of the A-level maths content first.

Why do you recommend those colleges? Are they better for my interests or just overall my STEM focused. I havent had looked at all at any of the colleges at Oxford because I've been pretty set on Cambridge Engineering for like the past 8 months.

Reply 4

Stiffy Byng

19

OP, thegeek88 means well, but he has not passed any A levels, taken any university entrance exams, or applied to any university.

Every college is good for every subject.

(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 5

Original post by Stiffy Byng

OP, thegeek88 means well, but he has not passed any A levels, taken any university entrance exams, or applied to any university.
Every college is good for every subject.

Lady Stephanie I was having problems beyond my control with violence and jealousy from former friends and discrimination from my Deputy Head of Sixth Form so I did not have the motivation in the 2000s. However, I did achieve an A-Level pass in Computing but hated the Sixth Form, otherwise I would have achieved 4 or 5 grade A's. 😛 I now have every past exam paper published for Maths, Further Maths, Spanish and French and can achieve 4A* and a minimum of 1A* 3A. Also, I have mentioned before I have had discussions with Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL, KCL, SOAS, QMUL, City, RHUL, Goldsmiths, Durham, Warwick, Bristol, Newcastle, Birmingham, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Southampton, Exeter, Cariff, Nottingham, York and Lancaster. So, I know my knowledge can help other applicants. 😉

Reply 6

Original post by redbelsham

Thanks very much for your reply (I need to decide relatively soon since my school has target groups for different courses at Oxbridge).
I don't want to get complacent but I've been above 90% for in every test so far and am predicted A*A*A*, so i think this is achievable for me.
What is your reason for choosing the PAT over ESAT. Is it easier or just a preference?
Yeah my school do Further mechanics 1 and 2 I'm pretty sure but we don't start it until year 13 since we cover all of the A-level maths content first.
Why do you recommend those colleges? Are they better for my interests or just overall my STEM focused. I havent had looked at all at any of the colleges at Oxford because I've been pretty set on Cambridge Engineering for like the past 8 months.

The PAT has been around since 2006, so you would have about 20 years of past papers to practice from. 😉

AdmissionsReportDec2024_0.pdf

PAT past papers | University of Oxford Department of Physics

Oxford Physics Aptitude Test (PAT) - PMT

Also, don't forget to view YouTube videos about the PAT as well. 🙂

The ESAT is relatively new and it is broad in nature for Engineering and Natural Sciences, whereas the PAT is only for Physics and Engineering Science.

Reply 7

mqb2766

21

Original post by redbelsham

Thanks very much for your reply (I need to decide relatively soon since my school has target groups for different courses at Oxbridge).
I don't want to get complacent but I've been above 90% for in every test so far and am predicted A*A*A*, so i think this is achievable for me.
What is your reason for choosing the PAT over ESAT. Is it easier or just a preference?
Yeah my school do Further mechanics 1 and 2 I'm pretty sure but we don't start it until year 13 since we cover all of the A-level maths content first.
Why do you recommend those colleges? Are they better for my interests or just overall my STEM focused. I havent had looked at all at any of the colleges at Oxford because I've been pretty set on Cambridge Engineering for like the past 8 months.

Id not be too concerned about which test, as both cover a similar syllabus for maths and physics and both changed a bit last year as theyre being administered/delivered differently. As you must have covered roughy maths as, you could probably download an older pat and engaa paper and have a go at the maths (and some of the physics) if you want. But it should be less about the test/college and more about the course/institution.

Reply 8

mqb2766

21

Original post by redbelsham

I'm in year 12 studying maths further maths Physics with gcse's 99999998888. I'm pretty confident I'll meet grade requirements for both unis also. One reason I'm stuck between them is that I've heard that oxford offers a more theoretical, maths/physics heavy course while Cambridge's is more hands on/applied. I tend to lean towards Oxford in this aspect since I prefer learning the fundamentals and derivations rather than seeing how they apply in practice.
However Cambridge allows you to specialise in aerospace but Oxford doesn't. Ive been looking at aerospace for quite a while now and am pretty sure that its what I want to do post uni. For this reason I lean towards Cambridge.
On the other hand, maybe Oxford is the better course and that I could just take up some classes that gear towards aero, and then specialise in aero in a Masters of PhD. Am I planning too far ahead with this thought?
Nonetheless, I'm also going to apply to Imperial which requires me to take the ESAT, similar to Cambridge. For Oxford I would take the PAT. Therefore is it better to just go with Cambridge to avoid the extra hurdle of taking two admissions tests? Or what if I do bad in one of the tests could I see the other test as another opportunity to do well?
If you could correct any misconceptions or provide any advice I would be extremely thankful.
Thanks

Just a couple of other things you seem to refer to. I dont have first hand knowedge of engineering at the two places, but Id be surprised if it was that different in terms of theoretical/applied. Id expect cambridge to be rigorous (just as I would oxford) and in terms of the maths, one of the colleges (peterhouse, next door to engineering) asks for step 2 for engineering as they think its approopriate.

As mentioned previously, both pat and esat/engaa have changed a bit last year, but if you check their syllabuses,
https://www.physics.ox.ac.uk/study/undergraduates/how-apply/physics-aptitude-test-pat/pat-syllabus
https://uat-wp.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/16150826/ESAT_Content_Specification_May2024.pdf
theyre not that different. So if you did some preparation for one but changed your mind ~summer, youd still have enough time. Both have a maths component which is elementary+as maths (roughly) and their physics sections are ~75% the same. In fact, with the exams going on line, supplementary practice on the other papers is hardly a bad thing and roughly, pat is probably slighly harder (though the long questions are now gone) and engaa/esat was probably tighter on time. So for both, knowing the material and practicing how to solve questions (time) efficiently is important.

(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 9

Muttley79

Original post by redbelsham

I'm in year 12 studying maths further maths Physics with gcse's 99999998888. I'm pretty confident I'll meet grade requirements for both unis also. One reason I'm stuck between them is that I've heard that oxford offers a more theoretical, maths/physics heavy course while Cambridge's is more hands on/applied. I tend to lean towards Oxford in this aspect since I prefer learning the fundamentals and derivations rather than seeing how they apply in practice.
However Cambridge allows you to specialise in aerospace but Oxford doesn't. Ive been looking at aerospace for quite a while now and am pretty sure that its what I want to do post uni. For this reason I lean towards Cambridge.
On the other hand, maybe Oxford is the better course and that I could just take up some classes that gear towards aero, and then specialise in aero in a Masters of PhD. Am I planning too far ahead with this thought?
Nonetheless, I'm also going to apply to Imperial which requires me to take the ESAT, similar to Cambridge. For Oxford I would take the PAT. Therefore is it better to just go with Cambridge to avoid the extra hurdle of taking two admissions tests? Or what if I do bad in one of the tests could I see the other test as another opportunity to do well?
If you could correct any misconceptions or provide any advice I would be extremely thankful.
Thanks

Do you want to work as an Engineer? If so, my top students don't apply to Oxbridg these days as the degrees as neither uni offers a year in industry. Non-RG are often a better prep for getting a job e.g Bath

Reply 10

r_4bi

9

Original post by Muttley79

Do you want to work as an Engineer? If so, my top students don't apply to Oxbridg these days as the degrees as neither uni offers a year in industry. Non-RG are often a better prep for getting a job e.g Bath

I agree with the above, like don't get me wrong they're good unis, but are more just titles same way you buy certain name brands, and in terms of your future and getting a job sometimes other unis or non-r/g are better. When I was scrolling courses like barely any of rgs had stuff like year in industry, and the ones that do were lowk far for me . Keep in mind though that's just me personally and how I chose. Anyways yeah, so if aerospace / engineering in general is what sticks out to you, try looking into other unis and their courses too. Now in general of course if you took someone from a random uni and someone from oxbridge or imperial etc an employer would be more likely to pick the one graduating from higher unis, but thats a general thing, other unis might be better at certain courses and have years in industry etc and mroe connections, which could actually make employers favour you.

IN SUMMARY mb i'm a yapper, they're good I'd personally opt for cambridge, but look at your other options, look at subject league tables, because I wouldn't say they're THE best for aerospace, and also where you ultimately want to be, because like I was considering pharmacy and looked at courses that were more practical bc i preferred that (same way you're leaning to oxford), but ultimately I'd probably end up working at boots or smth like that yk. This isn't to slander phamarcists either and all of them, but with my skillset and also the majority of the population thats what'll happen, which I felt was a bit of a waste of learning everything in the modules. So look at where you want to be, maybe apply one of two (idk im still leaning cambridge), but have a better look at other unis. sozzers and good luck!!

Reply 11

Wired_1800

Original post by redbelsham

I'm in year 12 studying maths further maths Physics with gcse's 99999998888. I'm pretty confident I'll meet grade requirements for both unis also. One reason I'm stuck between them is that I've heard that oxford offers a more theoretical, maths/physics heavy course while Cambridge's is more hands on/applied. I tend to lean towards Oxford in this aspect since I prefer learning the fundamentals and derivations rather than seeing how they apply in practice.
However Cambridge allows you to specialise in aerospace but Oxford doesn't. Ive been looking at aerospace for quite a while now and am pretty sure that its what I want to do post uni. For this reason I lean towards Cambridge.
On the other hand, maybe Oxford is the better course and that I could just take up some classes that gear towards aero, and then specialise in aero in a Masters of PhD. Am I planning too far ahead with this thought?
Nonetheless, I'm also going to apply to Imperial which requires me to take the ESAT, similar to Cambridge. For Oxford I would take the PAT. Therefore is it better to just go with Cambridge to avoid the extra hurdle of taking two admissions tests? Or what if I do bad in one of the tests could I see the other test as another opportunity to do well?
If you could correct any misconceptions or provide any advice I would be extremely thankful.
Thanks

Oxford.

Reasons:

•

You are more interested in their course.

•

You can sit the PAT. If you dont perform well on ESAT, you can save it with PAT.

•

You have strong GCSE grades

I suggest you consider that uni. Also consider the colleges suggested by geek888.

Good luck

Reply 12

r_4bi

9

Original post by Wired_1800

Oxford.
Reasons:

•

You are more interested in their course.

•

You can sit the PAT. If you dont perform well on ESAT, you can save it with PAT.

•

You have strong GCSE grades

I suggest you consider that uni. Also consider the colleges suggested by geek888.
Good luck

OMd i saw you on another post earlier arguing w someone HI

Reply 13

Wired_1800

Original post by r_4bi

OMd i saw you on another post earlier arguing w someone HI

No comment :lol:

Reply 14

r_4bi

9

Original post by Wired_1800

No comment :lol:

LMFAOO fair enough. It was when i was scrolling for ops on chemical engineering, because I'm like iffy with my choices, part of me still wants to study maths, but I don't know what job i want in the future still. Also I'm debating doing a gap and applying imperial.

Reply 15

Wired_1800

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by r_4bi

LMFAOO fair enough. It was when i was scrolling for ops on chemical engineering, because I'm like iffy with my choices, part of me still wants to study maths, but I don't know what job i want in the future still. Also I'm debating doing a gap and applying imperial.

There is a tool that shows suggested degree courses with your A level combination. This can help you to consider different options.

You can find it here: https://www.theuniguide.co.uk/a-level-explorer

If you want to study Maths, you should select it. Do what you want. The worst feeling is regret. If there is an option to select 4 subjects, you can select them and maybe drop one of them in second year.

For gap year and imperial, i am personally not a big fan of gap years unless the person has proper plans for that year. For example, some people choose to go travelling or a job or an internship or military service or volunteer etc. What is iffy would be to take the gap year and not do much with it. Besides, some top unis may frown at it too (just my opinion).

My suggested plan is to select the subjects that you want and go through with applying to unis etc. When you get your results in August, if Imperial is still strongly on your mind, then take the gap year. If not, you go to your firm or insurance choice and live your life.

Remember that nothing is guaranteed, there was an applicant who really wanted to go to Oxford and turned down a place at UCL iirc. The following year, they were rejected again by Oxford. I think they ended up going to UCL.

(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 16

melancollege

Original post by thegeek888

Lady Stephanie I was having problems beyond my control with violence and jealousy from former friends and discrimination from my Deputy Head of Sixth Form so I did not have the motivation in the 2000s. However, I did achieve an A-Level pass in Computing but hated the Sixth Form, otherwise I would have achieved 4 or 5 grade A's. 😛 I now have every past exam paper published for Maths, Further Maths, Spanish and French and can achieve 4A* and a minimum of 1A* 3A. Also, I have mentioned before I have had discussions with Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL, KCL, SOAS, QMUL, City, RHUL, Goldsmiths, Durham, Warwick, Bristol, Newcastle, Birmingham, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Southampton, Exeter, Cariff, Nottingham, York and Lancaster. So, I know my knowledge can help other applicants. 😉

"I have had discussions with Oxbridge [...]". Congratulations, but respectfully this is not a qualification. Also, I don't know which specific people you count as "Oxbridge", but your advice directly opposes their official stances as Cambridge repeatedly say that three A-Levels is sufficient.

Further, the arrogance of saying "I know my knowledge can help other applicants" when I have had to specifically message you to tell you that many of your posts have been wrong, unhelpful or outdated (often all three) makes me doubt that you are doing this is good faith.

Reply 17

Original post by melancollege

"I have had discussions with Oxbridge [...]". Congratulations, but respectfully this is not a qualification. Also, I don't know which specific people you count as "Oxbridge", but your advice directly opposes their official stances as Cambridge repeatedly say that three A-Levels is sufficient.
Further, the arrogance of saying "I know my knowledge can help other applicants" when I have had to specifically message you to tell you that many of your posts have been wrong, unhelpful or outdated (often all three) makes me doubt that you are doing this is good faith.

Harvard University, which only accepts 3% of applicants from the USA and all over the world, strongly prefers 4 A-Levels.

Who Are We Looking For? - Harvard UK Admissions

"We do prefer that students take the most rigorous programme available to them, so an A level student, for example, should normally take four A levels rather than three."

Furthermore, the vast majority of Oxbridge offer holders at the top schools and colleges in the country have studied 4 or more A-Levels, especially for the Sciences.

Which schools get the most pupils into Oxbridge? | The Spectator

(edited 1 month ago)

Reply 18

Stiffy Byng

19

For the 999th time, you do NOT need four A levels for Oxford or Cambridge.

Reply 19