Am I cooked for Cambridge Maths?
I am currently in y12 (Maths, FM, Physics and Econ) and thinking of applying to Cambridge for Mathematics (college still undecided). I have a silver in the UKMT intermediate, Bronze in SMC (bad week...) and I have literally nothing else apart from personal projects, books I've read and plan on reading and the occasional virtual session and student shadowing schemes. I am in Pathways to bath for Maths and Access to Bristol for Physics and I really do find the maths Interesting and I believe I am capable of getting 1,1 in STEP 2,3.
I have also applied to various summer schools at Oxbridge and imperial but still waiting for the results. My school does FM in a different way where we do all of A level maths the first year and all of FM the next year. So I will hopefully have an A* in maths by the time if application.
not sure if this matters but gcse's are like A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*AA Distinction BBC Maths A* and triple science A* Additional Maths- Disctinction.
I have also applied to various summer schools at Oxbridge and imperial but still waiting for the results. My school does FM in a different way where we do all of A level maths the first year and all of FM the next year. So I will hopefully have an A* in maths by the time if application.
not sure if this matters but gcse's are like A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*AA Distinction BBC Maths A* and triple science A* Additional Maths- Disctinction.
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Reply 1
Original post by danny3life
I am currently in y12 (Maths, FM, Physics and Econ) and thinking of applying to Cambridge for Mathematics (college still undecided). I have a silver in the UKMT intermediate, Bronze in SMC (bad week...) and I have literally nothing else apart from personal projects, books I've read and plan on reading and the occasional virtual session and student shadowing schemes. I am in Pathways to bath for Maths and Access to Bristol for Physics and I really do find the maths Interesting and I believe I am capable of getting 1,1 in STEP 2,3.
I have also applied to various summer schools at Oxbridge and imperial but still waiting for the results. My school does FM in a different way where we do all of A level maths the first year and all of FM the next year. So I will hopefully have an A* in maths by the time if application.
not sure if this matters but gcse's are like A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*AA Distinction BBC Maths A* and triple science A* Additional Maths- Disctinction.
I have also applied to various summer schools at Oxbridge and imperial but still waiting for the results. My school does FM in a different way where we do all of A level maths the first year and all of FM the next year. So I will hopefully have an A* in maths by the time if application.
not sure if this matters but gcse's are like A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*AA Distinction BBC Maths A* and triple science A* Additional Maths- Disctinction.
Original post by thegeek888
Just don't apply to Trinity College, Cambridge and you will be fine. 🙂
Out of curiosity, is there a reason for this? I’ll be honest I know nothing about different colleges and am simply curious…
Reply 3
Original post by A_P_ME
Out of curiosity, is there a reason for this? I’ll be honest I know nothing about different colleges and am simply curious…
Original post by thegeek888
@melancollege is studying Maths at Sidney Sussex, Cambridge and she should also be able to tell you to avoid applying to Trinity College, Cambridge. Because they get tonnes of applicants and so many are rejected. ☹️
*he
Reply 5
Original post by thegeek888
@melancollege is studying Maths at Sidney Sussex, Cambridge and she should also be able to tell you to avoid applying to Trinity College, Cambridge. Because they get tonnes of applicants and so many are rejected. ☹️
Then does it follow that applying to undersubscribed Colleges will increase my chances of acceptance?
Original post by danny3life
Then does it follow that applying to undersubscribed Colleges will increase my chances of acceptance?
The entry stats are at
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/statistics
and from memory (you check) its somehting like 1 in 6 for most colleges and trinity is something like 1 in 8. So its challenging wherever you apply. There is pooling (post interview) to try and even out applications, though having a decent personal statement is important (so what have you done / why do you ifind maths interesting),
https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/super-curricular_suggestions.pdf
and preparing for the interview/test and the step exam are more important.
(edited 2 months ago)
Reply 7
Original post by danny3life
Then does it follow that applying to undersubscribed Colleges will increase my chances of acceptance?
Maths is one of those subjects that applying to Trinity is an idiotic move imho. Every year, many capable and excellent applicants try and every year, many of them are rejected. Better to choose another college.
Original post by danny3life
I am currently in y12 (Maths, FM, Physics and Econ) and thinking of applying to Cambridge for Mathematics (college still undecided). I have a silver in the UKMT intermediate, Bronze in SMC (bad week...) and I have literally nothing else apart from personal projects, books I've read and plan on reading and the occasional virtual session and student shadowing schemes. I am in Pathways to bath for Maths and Access to Bristol for Physics and I really do find the maths Interesting and I believe I am capable of getting 1,1 in STEP 2,3.
I have also applied to various summer schools at Oxbridge and imperial but still waiting for the results. My school does FM in a different way where we do all of A level maths the first year and all of FM the next year. So I will hopefully have an A* in maths by the time if application.
not sure if this matters but gcse's are like A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*AA Distinction BBC Maths A* and triple science A* Additional Maths- Disctinction.
I have also applied to various summer schools at Oxbridge and imperial but still waiting for the results. My school does FM in a different way where we do all of A level maths the first year and all of FM the next year. So I will hopefully have an A* in maths by the time if application.
not sure if this matters but gcse's are like A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*A*AA Distinction BBC Maths A* and triple science A* Additional Maths- Disctinction.
Just a few other points in relation to the OP, usually cambridge says they like all a levels done together, so having a maths a level in the bag at the end of y12 isnt necessarily a positive. They recognise that some schools do it this way, so its not necessarily a negative either. It is what it is.
For supercurriculars, as well as the cam ones, there are list(s) at oxford
https://www.st-annes.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate/outreach/students/super-curriculars-and-resources/
and the livestream/maths club talks and ... Its less about summer schools/programs, more about what youve done yourself (books, projects, ...) So focus on what youre doing yourself (not being taught or shadowing students, whatever that is) and anything in addition is a bonus. In the personal statement / interview, they really want to see two things, 1) that youre capable of passing step 2) that youre capable of learning in the tutorial system. The latter is where its important to demonstrate what you did yourself, how you learnt it.
Theyre not necessarily that related, but Im surprised if youre confident of getting 1,1 in step but are getting bronze in smc which is ~6+/25 questions right. Arguably the ukmt stuff is more related to the interview, so talking about elementary maths/how to solve problems/ideas/.... So if youre interested in maths, why didnt you put a bit of effort into preparing for the challenges / problem solving etc? If youve done other maths stuff and are not interested in the ukmt stuff, fair enough, but one recommended booklet for preparing for the interview is bowlers, and that has a reasonable ukmt challenge/olympiad slant, for want of a better term.
For the colleges, trinity is more competitive than the others, but not stupidly so and you end up with the same degree at the end, having done the same course. But youd prepare the same over the next 7 months for whichever one you apply to, so it really would be last of the things to worry about.
(edited 2 months ago)
Reply 9
Original post by melancollege
*he
(edited 2 months ago)
Original post by thegeek888
I always thought you were a "Melanie?" 🙂 lol But you're a male?! WOW.
Pun on the word melancholy
Reply 11
Original post by mqb2766
Just a few other points in relation to the OP, usually cambridge says they like all a levels done together, so having a maths a level in the bag at the end of y12 isnt necessarily a positive. They recognise that some schools do it this way, so its not necessarily a negative either. It is what it is.
For supercurriculars, as well as the cam ones, there are list(s) at oxford
https://www.st-annes.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate/outreach/students/super-curriculars-and-resources/
and the livestream/maths club talks and ... Its less about summer schools/programs, more about what youve done yourself (books, projects, ...) So focus on what youre doing yourself (not being taught or shadowing students, whatever that is) and anything in addition is a bonus. In the personal statement / interview, they really want to see two things, 1) that youre capable of passing step 2) that youre capable of learning in the tutorial system. The latter is where its important to demonstrate what you did yourself, how you learnt it.
Theyre not necessarily that related, but Im surprised if youre confident of getting 1,1 in step but are getting bronze in smc which is ~6+/25 questions right. Arguably the ukmt stuff is more related to the interview, so talking about elementary maths/how to solve problems/ideas/.... So if youre interested in maths, why didnt you put a bit of effort into preparing for the challenges / problem solving etc? If youve done other maths stuff and are not interested in the ukmt stuff, fair enough, but one recommended booklet for preparing for the interview is bowlers, and that has a reasonable ukmt challenge/olympiad slant, for want of a better term.
For the colleges, trinity is more competitive than the others, but not stupidly so and you end up with the same degree at the end, having done the same course. But youd prepare the same over the next 7 months for whichever one you apply to, so it really would be last of the things to worry about.
For supercurriculars, as well as the cam ones, there are list(s) at oxford
https://www.st-annes.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate/outreach/students/super-curriculars-and-resources/
and the livestream/maths club talks and ... Its less about summer schools/programs, more about what youve done yourself (books, projects, ...) So focus on what youre doing yourself (not being taught or shadowing students, whatever that is) and anything in addition is a bonus. In the personal statement / interview, they really want to see two things, 1) that youre capable of passing step 2) that youre capable of learning in the tutorial system. The latter is where its important to demonstrate what you did yourself, how you learnt it.
Theyre not necessarily that related, but Im surprised if youre confident of getting 1,1 in step but are getting bronze in smc which is ~6+/25 questions right. Arguably the ukmt stuff is more related to the interview, so talking about elementary maths/how to solve problems/ideas/.... So if youre interested in maths, why didnt you put a bit of effort into preparing for the challenges / problem solving etc? If youve done other maths stuff and are not interested in the ukmt stuff, fair enough, but one recommended booklet for preparing for the interview is bowlers, and that has a reasonable ukmt challenge/olympiad slant, for want of a better term.
For the colleges, trinity is more competitive than the others, but not stupidly so and you end up with the same degree at the end, having done the same course. But youd prepare the same over the next 7 months for whichever one you apply to, so it really would be last of the things to worry about.
The Ukmt Stuff was at the beginning of the year in like October so I really wasn't prepared at all and I hadn't yet decided what to study then so ye. I am doing more practic problems from like the step preparation thing from Cambridge so I have a general overview on that the questions are like. I will definitely look into that book you mentioned tho. I appreciate the input.
Original post by danny3life
The Ukmt Stuff was at the beginning of the year in like October so I really wasn't prepared at all and I hadn't yet decided what to study then so ye. I am doing more practic problems from like the step preparation thing from Cambridge so I have a general overview on that the questions are like. I will definitely look into that book you mentioned tho. I appreciate the input.
I presume you mean the step foundation programme? The basic step foundation is based on step 1 (and earlier) and is a decent introduction (like the mat livestream, which isnt bad to go over for maths as stuff). But its deliberately on the easier side and Id be wary of too much extrapolation to step 2 / 3 papers at this stage. If youre covering a level maths in y12, then youre probably not far off being able to attempt a few older step 1 papers (like 2018/19, so after the syllabus changed, but before they ditched step 1). Looking at the threasholds, step 1 is easier than step 2 and 3, though its a decent thing to aim for at this stage.
Have a flick through bowlers booklet if you want to get an idea about what some of the questions make be like, but Id leave any proper practice until nearer the time. Similarly there are ~three older "interview papers" on the trinity pages and a few other "lists of questions" doing the rounds on the web, just google. They all give an idea of the type of quesitons that may be asked, but expecting the unexpected and being able to talk/discuss maths is probably the main thing. Theres a recent/last year video of tom rocks doing an oxford interview question, and it was a functional equation one which crops up now and again on smc/bmo for instance.
I guess at this stage, as well as doing your normal a levels, try and do stuff based around the supercurriculars/personal statement and practice doing some harder maths as well as the core step practice.
(edited 2 months ago)
To add - main point of don't apply to Trinity is because they have a lot of particularly international applicants who are insane(ly good, IMO medallist types), also partly because of scholarships Trinity provides, but also sheer numbers generally because of the larger maths cohort too. But, if Trinity do not interview you, that's it, the end of your application, and there's just a lot of applicants in Maths to there that probs would have got interviewed at any other college... And to get a chance of an offer, you need to make it to an interview.
Reply 14
Original post by danny3life
Then does it follow that applying to undersubscribed Colleges will increase my chances of acceptance?
Hey just adding onto this. They are generally recommending you not apply to Trinity because it is THE maths college (high reputation), so most extremely competitive applicants apply there.
But Cambridge has a 'pooling' system. Basically if you apply to a college of your choice and they interview you and think that you deserve an offer, they have two options. 1) Give you an offer. 2) Put you in the pool.
If you are (2) it means your college thinks you deserve an offer but they don't have any more space for you. So you are now a fish in this big pool of other applicants in similar positions. A different college may choose to fish you out of the pool and give you a place there. Or you could be left in the pool and unfortunately no one fishes you out (as happens to most applicants in the pool).
So theoretically, applying to an oversubscribed college increases your chances of being put in the pool but doesn't decrease your chance of offer. I was pooled this year for Med and got an offer somewhere else. Cambridge wants the best applicants to the Uni as a whole, not just the chance that you were the best one at one college. Let's say we had applicant A at Homerton college who if we gave them a hypothetical score (not how it works) they were 7/10, and the top scorer at their college. But let's say we had applicant B who got put in the pool from Trinity who had a hypothetical score of 9/10, Homerton would be more likely to fish B out first before giving an offer to A. This means your chance of an offer is the same regardless of what college you apply to.
So honestly think of choosing a college as more like your first choice of accomodation than a game of tactics and strategy. If you apply to a competitive one (big rich pretty ones) like Trinity, you are more likely to be placed at a different accomodation because lots of other good people apply there too. You will still get accomodation/a college. I'd suggest looking at ones close to your lectures.
Edit - As someone said you need to have an interview to get an offer. So if Trinity can only give interviews for x amount of people, and loads of reall good ones apply, loads of really good ones won't get interviews. So yeah you can try but I'd advise somewhere different.
(edited 2 months ago)
Reply 15
Original post by study23!
Hey just adding onto this. They are generally recommending you not apply to Trinity because it is THE maths college (high reputation), so most extremely competitive applicants apply there.
But Cambridge has a 'pooling' system. Basically if you apply to a college of your choice and they interview you and think that you deserve an offer, they have two options. 1) Give you an offer. 2) Put you in the pool.
If you are (2) it means your college thinks you deserve an offer but they don't have any more space for you. So you are now a fish in this big pool of other applicants in similar positions. A different college may choose to fish you out of the pool and give you a place there. Or you could be left in the pool and unfortunately no one fishes you out (as happens to most applicants in the pool).
So theoretically, applying to an oversubscribed college increases your chances of being put in the pool but doesn't decrease your chance of offer. I was pooled this year for Med and got an offer somewhere else. Cambridge wants the best applicants to the Uni as a whole, not just the chance that you were the best one at one college. Let's say we had applicant A at Homerton college who if we gave them a hypothetical score (not how it works) they were 7/10, and the top scorer at their college. But let's say we had applicant B who got put in the pool from Trinity who had a hypothetical score of 9/10, Homerton would be more likely to fish B out first before giving an offer to A. This means your chance of an offer is the same regardless of what college you apply to.
So honestly think of choosing a college as more like your first choice of accomodation than a game of tactics and strategy. If you apply to a competitive one (big rich pretty ones) like Trinity, you are more likely to be placed at a different accomodation because lots of other good people apply there too. You will still get accomodation/a college. I'd suggest looking at ones close to your lectures.
Edit - As someone said you need to have an interview to get an offer. So if Trinity can only give interviews for x amount of people, and loads of reall good ones apply, loads of really good ones won't get interviews. So yeah you can try but I'd advise somewhere different.
But Cambridge has a 'pooling' system. Basically if you apply to a college of your choice and they interview you and think that you deserve an offer, they have two options. 1) Give you an offer. 2) Put you in the pool.
If you are (2) it means your college thinks you deserve an offer but they don't have any more space for you. So you are now a fish in this big pool of other applicants in similar positions. A different college may choose to fish you out of the pool and give you a place there. Or you could be left in the pool and unfortunately no one fishes you out (as happens to most applicants in the pool).
So theoretically, applying to an oversubscribed college increases your chances of being put in the pool but doesn't decrease your chance of offer. I was pooled this year for Med and got an offer somewhere else. Cambridge wants the best applicants to the Uni as a whole, not just the chance that you were the best one at one college. Let's say we had applicant A at Homerton college who if we gave them a hypothetical score (not how it works) they were 7/10, and the top scorer at their college. But let's say we had applicant B who got put in the pool from Trinity who had a hypothetical score of 9/10, Homerton would be more likely to fish B out first before giving an offer to A. This means your chance of an offer is the same regardless of what college you apply to.
So honestly think of choosing a college as more like your first choice of accomodation than a game of tactics and strategy. If you apply to a competitive one (big rich pretty ones) like Trinity, you are more likely to be placed at a different accomodation because lots of other good people apply there too. You will still get accomodation/a college. I'd suggest looking at ones close to your lectures.
Edit - As someone said you need to have an interview to get an offer. So if Trinity can only give interviews for x amount of people, and loads of reall good ones apply, loads of really good ones won't get interviews. So yeah you can try but I'd advise somewhere different.
This is an excellent post.
My main rebuttal is the point around the pooling system. I do not think that the chance of an offer is the same regardless of the college. There seems to be a myth about pooling because not every college considers the pool for every subject, it would be a tedious and time consuming activity within a constrained timeline. So your example of an applicant with a 7/10 could be accepted and Homerton never goes to the pool, so the 9/10 applicant does not get a chance.
I agree that the pooling system would work effectively for borderline applicants with loads of luck. So if Homerton, as a random example, has fewer applicants and many are borderline, they may decide to check the pool.
To me, my suggestion is for a candidate to consider being a bigger fish in a smaller pond. So rather than a top Maths olympiad with loads of accolades to try their luck at Trinity where they would be a small fish in a big pond, it would be more reasonable to go for a smaller pool and then become the bigger fish in that pond. This, to me, would mostly work for the objectively top performing applicants.
I do agree with your other points though. Good luck with your studies.
Reply 16
I don't mean to be discouraging but there is no way for you to understand the difficulty of STEP II and III as it is based on further maths content which you couldn't have finished covering by now. STEP I is a lot easier and no longer used - anecdotally, I can do STEP I questions but cannot touch STEP II or III for the most part.
One of my friends is the best mathematician I know. He got gold in the SMC (we also took the exam in October of Y12 and had done no prep for it), easily gets near full-marks in papers, has done several competitions (successfully) and got an offer. Even he finds STEP insanely difficult, and is not at all confident in getting a 1,1. Do not underestimate STEP.
Please don't take this as discouragement. But I would highly recommend trying out some competitions, challenges, etc. in order to evidence your mathematical capability.
One of my friends is the best mathematician I know. He got gold in the SMC (we also took the exam in October of Y12 and had done no prep for it), easily gets near full-marks in papers, has done several competitions (successfully) and got an offer. Even he finds STEP insanely difficult, and is not at all confident in getting a 1,1. Do not underestimate STEP.
Please don't take this as discouragement. But I would highly recommend trying out some competitions, challenges, etc. in order to evidence your mathematical capability.
Reply 17
Thanks for the Input but I want to clarify that I really didn't mean to underestimate STEP II & III. I merely meant that I believed that I would be capable of getting a 1, 1 which I get can be misinterpreted. This SMC just wasn't it for me back then and additionally I had some personal issues at the same time and I really didn't care at all for it at all at the time. I now try to immerse myself in as many problem solving/interview style questions daily just to get into a habit of it and to develop my skills (all towards the admissions exams).
I would also like to reiterate that I am genuinely thankfulor any sort of suggestions/warnings that will allow me to avoid mistakes and make my path as smooth as possible. I have only seen some step II walkthroughs from some YouTubers like Tomrovksmaths and R2Drew2 and I can somewhat follow the answers of some questions based on what little knowledge I know from fp1 which I learnt over the summer. Obviously doing a question and watching someone do it are completely different things but I at least know what I'm in for. Step III is a different story but in time I will get unto it.
I would also like to reiterate that I am genuinely thankfulor any sort of suggestions/warnings that will allow me to avoid mistakes and make my path as smooth as possible. I have only seen some step II walkthroughs from some YouTubers like Tomrovksmaths and R2Drew2 and I can somewhat follow the answers of some questions based on what little knowledge I know from fp1 which I learnt over the summer. Obviously doing a question and watching someone do it are completely different things but I at least know what I'm in for. Step III is a different story but in time I will get unto it.
Reply 18
Original post by danny3life
Thanks for the Input but I want to clarify that I really didn't mean to underestimate STEP II & III. I merely meant that I believed that I would be capable of getting a 1, 1 which I get can be misinterpreted. This SMC just wasn't it for me back then and additionally I had some personal issues at the same time and I really didn't care at all for it at all at the time. I now try to immerse myself in as many problem solving/interview style questions daily just to get into a habit of it and to develop my skills (all towards the admissions exams).
I would also like to reiterate that I am genuinely thankfulor any sort of suggestions/warnings that will allow me to avoid mistakes and make my path as smooth as possible. I have only seen some step II walkthroughs from some YouTubers like Tomrovksmaths and R2Drew2 and I can somewhat follow the answers of some questions based on what little knowledge I know from fp1 which I learnt over the summer. Obviously doing a question and watching someone do it are completely different things but I at least know what I'm in for. Step III is a different story but in time I will get unto it.
I would also like to reiterate that I am genuinely thankfulor any sort of suggestions/warnings that will allow me to avoid mistakes and make my path as smooth as possible. I have only seen some step II walkthroughs from some YouTubers like Tomrovksmaths and R2Drew2 and I can somewhat follow the answers of some questions based on what little knowledge I know from fp1 which I learnt over the summer. Obviously doing a question and watching someone do it are completely different things but I at least know what I'm in for. Step III is a different story but in time I will get unto it.
Ik don’t worry, I think most of us are verging on the pessimistic side because the admissions process can be so unpredictable and so many people become disappointed so having low expectations is the best way to go about it. Genuinely, best of luck and I’m sure you have a very solid shot.
(Also FP1 = best further maths module 🙌)
Original post by danny3life
Thanks for the Input but I want to clarify that I really didn't mean to underestimate STEP II & III. I merely meant that I believed that I would be capable of getting a 1, 1 which I get can be misinterpreted. This SMC just wasn't it for me back then and additionally I had some personal issues at the same time and I really didn't care at all for it at all at the time. I now try to immerse myself in as many problem solving/interview style questions daily just to get into a habit of it and to develop my skills (all towards the admissions exams).
I would also like to reiterate that I am genuinely thankfulor any sort of suggestions/warnings that will allow me to avoid mistakes and make my path as smooth as possible. I have only seen some step II walkthroughs from some YouTubers like Tomrovksmaths and R2Drew2 and I can somewhat follow the answers of some questions based on what little knowledge I know from fp1 which I learnt over the summer. Obviously doing a question and watching someone do it are completely different things but I at least know what I'm in for. Step III is a different story but in time I will get unto it.
I would also like to reiterate that I am genuinely thankfulor any sort of suggestions/warnings that will allow me to avoid mistakes and make my path as smooth as possible. I have only seen some step II walkthroughs from some YouTubers like Tomrovksmaths and R2Drew2 and I can somewhat follow the answers of some questions based on what little knowledge I know from fp1 which I learnt over the summer. Obviously doing a question and watching someone do it are completely different things but I at least know what I'm in for. Step III is a different story but in time I will get unto it.
Agee with @nwar comments. Id also avoid watching step question walkthroughs if youve not tried the question (several times?). As an example of a step 1 question (the exam has been discontinued), but q1 2014 was a relatively simple (little/no a level content on) about squares, simple binomial, ... The examiners report expressed surprise about how badly it was attempted, as usually the q1s are partially to get you warmed up. Arguably it was closer to smc stuff, so primes, difference of two squares, binomial, ... Why not have a bash (several times?) at it without looking at solutions/examiners report? Then read a bit about babylonian multiplication/tables of squares etc and think how it relates to logs, .... So it could be argued that the question is 3,500 years old.
Why highlight it? The question is ~smc/elementary stuff and not really a level content. But it could be interview material and the algebra should be simple enough (core step) that even though the question is slightly unusual, youd be expected to do it. So as in the previous post, doing some harder maths stuff is important at this stage (as well as your a levels, step foundation, supercurriculars). Harder doesnt necessarily mean more advanced, rather harder questions even using pre a level stuff.
(edited 2 months ago)
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