York or Glasgow LLB for Magic Circle Law Firms
I’m holding offers from both Uni of York and Glasgow( common law) My aim is to get the highest quality law degree possible( uni reputation/ rank) both in the UK and internationally, to maximise my chances of securing places in magic circle firms/ US firms after my degree-
but I’m unsure of which to choose to best support this- I’ve made a pros and cons list and would appreciate any feedback/ opinions on this with the following things considered:
York:
Pros:
- 3 year course( shorter than Glasgow)
- Closer to London( better connections with firms)
- Higher amount of trainees in MC firms graduated from here
- Much prefer the city( my favourite city is Edinburgh and York is literally a smaller version of it.
- PBL teaching method helps stand out from other unis/ law degrees
Cons:
- Lower in UK law rankings( not by much)
- Lower in global law rankings( by quite a lot)
- Maybe less internationally recognised (might affect trying to practice in US?
. Despite proven as very good, course is quite new( maybe less respected than a traditional Glasgow theory based course- instead of their PBL( but this seems to be viewed well by employers)
- Dont love the campus itself( quite important for me) as I like old Universities, but it’s quite modern
- Quite far from city centre
Glasgow:
Pros:
- Consistently ranks top 10/ sometimes top 5 in uk law rankings
- Also ranks very highly globally for law( 44th in world)
- Seen as best Scottish uni for law( even better than Edinburgh( on UK rankings) which ranks very very highly globally for both its uni and law
- Top 100 uni with better international reputation
- Campus is stunning and very old(1400s) which is important for me
Cons:
- Far from London( connections may be difficult)
- None existent in magic circle reports on which unis they’ve hired from( not even on the list) despite high ranking
- 4 years( 1 study abroad which may not be needed/ useful-> another £9,500
- The city isn’t anywhere near the level of York- I actually don’t like it that much( buildings/ culture etc…)
- Don’t know how high the quality of teaching is with them being a Scottish uni teaching ‘common law’- maybe better for Scot’s law?
It seems York is highly recruited graduate wise at magic circle firms, and Glasgow isn’t, yet it’s difficult to look past the very high international/ UK rankings Glasgow gets( maybe better viewed/ known in US) but not sure if that’s how it works
And York is the perfect old city for me, yet has a modern campus I don’t like that much, whilst Glasgow isn’t as much of an old architecture city( more modern and plain) but has the perfect old campus that I haven’t seen beaten by any other uni-
Apologies for the long topic, but if anyone has managed to get this far, Any help/ guidance would be greatly appreciated,
as I’ve taken a gap year so I can’t firm/ insure either of these choices, meaning once I accept one, I lose the other permanently and can’t reverse it, so really want to make the right choice for my time at uni and opportunities career wise after it,
Thanks
but I’m unsure of which to choose to best support this- I’ve made a pros and cons list and would appreciate any feedback/ opinions on this with the following things considered:
York:
Pros:
- 3 year course( shorter than Glasgow)
- Closer to London( better connections with firms)
- Higher amount of trainees in MC firms graduated from here
- Much prefer the city( my favourite city is Edinburgh and York is literally a smaller version of it.
- PBL teaching method helps stand out from other unis/ law degrees
Cons:
- Lower in UK law rankings( not by much)
- Lower in global law rankings( by quite a lot)
- Maybe less internationally recognised (might affect trying to practice in US?
. Despite proven as very good, course is quite new( maybe less respected than a traditional Glasgow theory based course- instead of their PBL( but this seems to be viewed well by employers)
- Dont love the campus itself( quite important for me) as I like old Universities, but it’s quite modern
- Quite far from city centre
Glasgow:
Pros:
- Consistently ranks top 10/ sometimes top 5 in uk law rankings
- Also ranks very highly globally for law( 44th in world)
- Seen as best Scottish uni for law( even better than Edinburgh( on UK rankings) which ranks very very highly globally for both its uni and law
- Top 100 uni with better international reputation
- Campus is stunning and very old(1400s) which is important for me
Cons:
- Far from London( connections may be difficult)
- None existent in magic circle reports on which unis they’ve hired from( not even on the list) despite high ranking
- 4 years( 1 study abroad which may not be needed/ useful-> another £9,500
- The city isn’t anywhere near the level of York- I actually don’t like it that much( buildings/ culture etc…)
- Don’t know how high the quality of teaching is with them being a Scottish uni teaching ‘common law’- maybe better for Scot’s law?
It seems York is highly recruited graduate wise at magic circle firms, and Glasgow isn’t, yet it’s difficult to look past the very high international/ UK rankings Glasgow gets( maybe better viewed/ known in US) but not sure if that’s how it works
And York is the perfect old city for me, yet has a modern campus I don’t like that much, whilst Glasgow isn’t as much of an old architecture city( more modern and plain) but has the perfect old campus that I haven’t seen beaten by any other uni-
Apologies for the long topic, but if anyone has managed to get this far, Any help/ guidance would be greatly appreciated,
as I’ve taken a gap year so I can’t firm/ insure either of these choices, meaning once I accept one, I lose the other permanently and can’t reverse it, so really want to make the right choice for my time at uni and opportunities career wise after it,
Thanks
(edited 1 month ago)
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Reply 1
For the millionth time, law firms don't care about university rankings. Choose the course and place you like best.
Original post by Stiffy Byng
For the millionth time, law firms don't care about university rankings. Choose the course and place you like best.
Mate, why do you keep replying to every post I make, I’m asking people about other parts in my decision, not just whether they care about ranking
Reply 3
Original post by JE9
Mate, why do you keep replying to every post I make, I’m asking people about other parts in my decision, not just whether they care about ranking
It's an open forum. Your needless concern with university rankings is typical of this forum, which engenders that concern. You refer to rankings four times in your opening post. Perhaps those of us who practise law and recruit new lawyers should start saying "Not at Oxbridge/London? No chance." That wouldn't be true. But its what people here seem to wish to believe, despite reality being otherwise.
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by Stiffy Byng
It's an open forum. Your needless concern with university rankings is typical of this forum, which engenders that concern. You refer to rankings four times in your opening post. Perhaps those of us who practise law and recruit new lawyers should start saying "Not at Oxbridge/London? No chance." That wouldn't be true. But its what people here seem to wish to believe, despite reality being otherwise.
If you’d read beyond my reference to rankings, the post is questioning aspects like the city/ campus and culture of the two universities I’m deciding between, and seeking guidance on-
Moreover, while it may not be so relevant in the area of selection you’re referencing, statistics demonstrate that magic circle firms recruit sometimes largely different amounts from different Russell group universities- Glasgow for example, are never in that list, whilst York are, but seem to rank higher, which id argue is a fair confusion- of course they view russell groups highly as a whole, but evidently some more than others
I'm assuming you're currently 18 or 19 given you've taken a gap year?
Can I ask what it is about the Magic Circle or US firms which attracts you? Do you have a clear picture of what those firms do, what they expect of their junior lawyers and the nature of the career? Why those firms and not, say, other leading corp/commercial firms or, for that matter, firms that specialise in other areas of the law?
It may well be that you have an excellent knowledge of those points, and are very clear on what a role as a City lawyer involves particularly in those handful of firms that you reference. My slight concern is that you're basing your University choice on an assumption that you're going to follow a very specific career before you've started to study the subject and built up more knowledge about the profession.
Both those universities are highly regarded. I would take your pros/cons list and strip out any factors which relate to rankings, international recognition by law firms and the purported prevalence of grads at certain firms. Add in the "softer" factors: which has the better accommodation, better nightlife (if that's important to you), more interesting societies, cultural vibe etc. These are, after all, two very different cities. The most important thing is to do well on your course: you're far more likely to do that if you're happy and fulfilled for the three years of your studies. What might make you happy is a pretty subjective point and, whilst others might have experience of either of the universities, that will be from their subjective perspective.
If you excuse the facetious example, this is a little like picking a restaurant for a really special event. We can all recognise that there are probably a group of highly-regarded restaurants which, over the years, have been well reviewed by both critics and those we know. But it's impossible to say whether one of those restaurants is objectively better than another or whether, on the night, one might deliver a better experience than the other for you. There are so many subjective elements and potential factors out of your control that you would never expect to be guaranteed that one restaurant could guarantee a better experience/outcome than one of the others. But you can choose based on the factors which are important to you: type of food, ambience, decor, size, price, location etc.
FYI, I studied in York for a year when it still had a College of Law (i.e. a long time ago!) and currently live about an hour away from the city. It's a lovely place and history oozes out of every pore. You have fabulous countryside on your doorstep, and good transport links to other parts of the country. But it's relatively small and could be limiting as a student if you're looking for that big, bustling environment where you feel that the city has its own "identity". A year there was plenty for me. But that, is as noted above, just my subjective opinion!
Can I ask what it is about the Magic Circle or US firms which attracts you? Do you have a clear picture of what those firms do, what they expect of their junior lawyers and the nature of the career? Why those firms and not, say, other leading corp/commercial firms or, for that matter, firms that specialise in other areas of the law?
It may well be that you have an excellent knowledge of those points, and are very clear on what a role as a City lawyer involves particularly in those handful of firms that you reference. My slight concern is that you're basing your University choice on an assumption that you're going to follow a very specific career before you've started to study the subject and built up more knowledge about the profession.
Both those universities are highly regarded. I would take your pros/cons list and strip out any factors which relate to rankings, international recognition by law firms and the purported prevalence of grads at certain firms. Add in the "softer" factors: which has the better accommodation, better nightlife (if that's important to you), more interesting societies, cultural vibe etc. These are, after all, two very different cities. The most important thing is to do well on your course: you're far more likely to do that if you're happy and fulfilled for the three years of your studies. What might make you happy is a pretty subjective point and, whilst others might have experience of either of the universities, that will be from their subjective perspective.
If you excuse the facetious example, this is a little like picking a restaurant for a really special event. We can all recognise that there are probably a group of highly-regarded restaurants which, over the years, have been well reviewed by both critics and those we know. But it's impossible to say whether one of those restaurants is objectively better than another or whether, on the night, one might deliver a better experience than the other for you. There are so many subjective elements and potential factors out of your control that you would never expect to be guaranteed that one restaurant could guarantee a better experience/outcome than one of the others. But you can choose based on the factors which are important to you: type of food, ambience, decor, size, price, location etc.
FYI, I studied in York for a year when it still had a College of Law (i.e. a long time ago!) and currently live about an hour away from the city. It's a lovely place and history oozes out of every pore. You have fabulous countryside on your doorstep, and good transport links to other parts of the country. But it's relatively small and could be limiting as a student if you're looking for that big, bustling environment where you feel that the city has its own "identity". A year there was plenty for me. But that, is as noted above, just my subjective opinion!
Original post by chalks
I'm assuming you're currently 18 or 19 given you've taken a gap year?
Can I ask what it is about the Magic Circle or US firms which attracts you? Do you have a clear picture of what those firms do, what they expect of their junior lawyers and the nature of the career? Why those firms and not, say, other leading corp/commercial firms or, for that matter, firms that specialise in other areas of the law?
It may well be that you have an excellent knowledge of those points, and are very clear on what a role as a City lawyer involves particularly in those handful of firms that you reference. My slight concern is that you're basing your University choice on an assumption that you're going to follow a very specific career before you've started to study the subject and built up more knowledge about the profession.
Both those universities are highly regarded. I would take your pros/cons list and strip out any factors which relate to rankings, international recognition by law firms and the purported prevalence of grads at certain firms. Add in the "softer" factors: which has the better accommodation, better nightlife (if that's important to you), more interesting societies, cultural vibe etc. These are, after all, two very different cities. The most important thing is to do well on your course: you're far more likely to do that if you're happy and fulfilled for the three years of your studies. What might make you happy is a pretty subjective point and, whilst others might have experience of either of the universities, that will be from their subjective perspective.
If you excuse the facetious example, this is a little like picking a restaurant for a really special event. We can all recognise that there are probably a group of highly-regarded restaurants which, over the years, have been well reviewed by both critics and those we know. But it's impossible to say whether one of those restaurants is objectively better than another or whether, on the night, one might deliver a better experience than the other for you. There are so many subjective elements and potential factors out of your control that you would never expect to be guaranteed that one restaurant could guarantee a better experience/outcome than one of the others. But you can choose based on the factors which are important to you: type of food, ambience, decor, size, price, location etc.
FYI, I studied in York for a year when it still had a College of Law (i.e. a long time ago!) and currently live about an hour away from the city. It's a lovely place and history oozes out of every pore. You have fabulous countryside on your doorstep, and good transport links to other parts of the country. But it's relatively small and could be limiting as a student if you're looking for that big, bustling environment where you feel that the city has its own "identity". A year there was plenty for me. But that, is as noted above, just my subjective opinion!
Can I ask what it is about the Magic Circle or US firms which attracts you? Do you have a clear picture of what those firms do, what they expect of their junior lawyers and the nature of the career? Why those firms and not, say, other leading corp/commercial firms or, for that matter, firms that specialise in other areas of the law?
It may well be that you have an excellent knowledge of those points, and are very clear on what a role as a City lawyer involves particularly in those handful of firms that you reference. My slight concern is that you're basing your University choice on an assumption that you're going to follow a very specific career before you've started to study the subject and built up more knowledge about the profession.
Both those universities are highly regarded. I would take your pros/cons list and strip out any factors which relate to rankings, international recognition by law firms and the purported prevalence of grads at certain firms. Add in the "softer" factors: which has the better accommodation, better nightlife (if that's important to you), more interesting societies, cultural vibe etc. These are, after all, two very different cities. The most important thing is to do well on your course: you're far more likely to do that if you're happy and fulfilled for the three years of your studies. What might make you happy is a pretty subjective point and, whilst others might have experience of either of the universities, that will be from their subjective perspective.
If you excuse the facetious example, this is a little like picking a restaurant for a really special event. We can all recognise that there are probably a group of highly-regarded restaurants which, over the years, have been well reviewed by both critics and those we know. But it's impossible to say whether one of those restaurants is objectively better than another or whether, on the night, one might deliver a better experience than the other for you. There are so many subjective elements and potential factors out of your control that you would never expect to be guaranteed that one restaurant could guarantee a better experience/outcome than one of the others. But you can choose based on the factors which are important to you: type of food, ambience, decor, size, price, location etc.
FYI, I studied in York for a year when it still had a College of Law (i.e. a long time ago!) and currently live about an hour away from the city. It's a lovely place and history oozes out of every pore. You have fabulous countryside on your doorstep, and good transport links to other parts of the country. But it's relatively small and could be limiting as a student if you're looking for that big, bustling environment where you feel that the city has its own "identity". A year there was plenty for me. But that, is as noted above, just my subjective opinion!
Thank you for such a clear, detailed response, it’s hugely helpful and I really appreciate it!
I completely understand the points you have made, and if I was to apply your suggested criteria as the focus of my decision, York would be my decision by far, as I too, love the city and its history, and much prefer it to that of Glasgow
- So in that aspect, although I do prefer Glasgows campus, I think it makes sense to value the city over this.
And in reference to your original points, of course, as you say, I’m 18 so have no first hand experience in any of this( as of yet), but I have done extensive research on different aspects of practice, expectations, goals at these firms, and feel very much as though they’re the right place for me( based on initial impression)
•
I’ve gathered from your post, and others that the ranking systems seem to be completely irrelevant( provided that they’re both Russell groups anyway.
•
Although, the percentage of trainees from certain universities at these MC/US firms did feel very relevant in informing the decision- ofc as mentioned, I can’t be sure how it all works currently, but York is consistently fairly high in their targeted universities stats ( relevant to amount of trainees)
•
Whereas, Glasgow don’t even make a single percentage of this- of course I’m sure there’s trainees from Glasgow there, and the strength of my post graduate application etc will be far more important than the Uni I attended, but there must be some scope for the belief my chances at securing a places would be largely increased at York, as opposed to Glasgow.
As mentioned, thank you for your post, I think it seems impossible not to lean towards York at this point, as I feel the MC statistics are the only solid quantitative data that’s relevant here, with rankings being very complex ( irrelevant categories for ranking for example like student satisfaction).
Also, it feels worth pointing out that I am seeking to practice in London for a fairly short period, and move to New York with the aspiration to practice( and live permanently) as soon as possible after graduating, which is why I’m attracted to US firms( I’m unsure on how they work exactly, but I assume there are opportunities to move to offices abroad etc…) so that’s my main reasoning.
(edited 1 month ago)
Original post by JE9
Thank you for such a clear, detailed response, it’s hugely helpful and I really appreciate it!
I completely understand the points you have made, and if I was to apply your suggested criteria as the focus of my decision, York would be my decision by far, as I too, love the city and its history, and much prefer it to that of Glasgow
- So in that aspect, although I do prefer Glasgows campus, I think it makes sense to value the city over this.
And in reference to your original points, of course, as you say, I’m 18 so have no first hand experience in any of this( as of yet), but I have done extensive research on different aspects of practice, expectations, goals at these firms, and feel very much as though they’re the right place for me( based on initial impression)
As mentioned, thank you for your post, I think it seems impossible not to lean towards York at this point, as I feel the MC statistics are the only solid quantitative data that’s relevant here, with rankings being very complex ( irrelevant categories for ranking for example like student satisfaction).
I completely understand the points you have made, and if I was to apply your suggested criteria as the focus of my decision, York would be my decision by far, as I too, love the city and its history, and much prefer it to that of Glasgow
- So in that aspect, although I do prefer Glasgows campus, I think it makes sense to value the city over this.
And in reference to your original points, of course, as you say, I’m 18 so have no first hand experience in any of this( as of yet), but I have done extensive research on different aspects of practice, expectations, goals at these firms, and feel very much as though they’re the right place for me( based on initial impression)
•
I’ve gathered from your post, and others that the ranking systems seem to be completely irrelevant( provided that they’re both Russell groups anyway.
•
Although, the percentage of trainees from certain universities at these MC/US firms did feel very relevant in informing the decision- ofc as mentioned, I can’t be sure how it all works currently, but York is consistently fairly high in their targeted universities stats ( relevant to amount of trainees)
•
•
Whereas, Glasgow don’t even make a single percentage of this- of course I’m sure there’s trainees from Glasgow there, and the strength of my post graduate application etc will be far more important than the Uni I attended, but there must be some scope for the belief my chances at securing a places would be largely increased at York, as opposed to Glasgow.
As mentioned, thank you for your post, I think it seems impossible not to lean towards York at this point, as I feel the MC statistics are the only solid quantitative data that’s relevant here, with rankings being very complex ( irrelevant categories for ranking for example like student satisfaction).
You're welcome, and happy that I could shed some light.
Where are you getting your Magic Circle statistics from?
Original post by chalks
You're welcome, and happy that I could shed some light.
Where are you getting your Magic Circle statistics from?
Where are you getting your Magic Circle statistics from?
Sorry, I should’ve mentioned this in my original post,
My sources are primarily from the ‘Chambers Student’ who share the same yearly statistics as all of the law websites I’ve seen when searching up these statistics- there are lots of details if you search ‘Magic circle target uni statistics 2025/ yearly.
Original post by JE9
Sorry, I should’ve mentioned this in my original post,
My sources are primarily from the ‘Chambers Student’ who share the same yearly statistics as all of the law websites I’ve seen when searching up these statistics- there are lots of details if you search ‘Magic circle target uni statistics 2025/ yearly.
My sources are primarily from the ‘Chambers Student’ who share the same yearly statistics as all of the law websites I’ve seen when searching up these statistics- there are lots of details if you search ‘Magic circle target uni statistics 2025/ yearly.
Many thanks.
I've posted previously about the reliability of those Chambers' stats and how much weight you can properly attribute to them. Might be worth hunting down my previous posts.
Can you link me to the research/data which specifically calls out the Magic Circle stats?
Original post by chalks
Many thanks.
I've posted previously about the reliability of those Chambers' stats and how much weight you can properly attribute to them. Might be worth hunting down my previous posts.
Can you link me to the research/data which specifically calls out the Magic Circle stats?
I've posted previously about the reliability of those Chambers' stats and how much weight you can properly attribute to them. Might be worth hunting down my previous posts.
Can you link me to the research/data which specifically calls out the Magic Circle stats?
https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities-2019
You’re welcome.
I’ll certainly have a look for those, they’ll be really helpful thank you.
I’ve attached the link to the 2019 stats which is all I can seem to find, although they do have a table with result findings spanning across about 13- 15 years perhaps or potentially more-
Referencing the more ‘highly recruited’ institution graduates in these years.
Original post by chalks
Thanks - I thought that's what you'd refer me to.
Worth noting that there are no direct stats on which Universities the Magic Circle have typically recruited from, other than broadbrush Russell Group/Oxbridge data.
Worth noting that there are no direct stats on which Universities the Magic Circle have typically recruited from, other than broadbrush Russell Group/Oxbridge data.
That’s a good point-
I think in the context of the two universities I’m deciding between, there must be some grounds to the fact that Glasgow aren’t even in 0.1% once in decades- perhaps due to the fact that even though they offer common law- it’s still in Scotland-
Whereas York does seem to appear consistently highly across the rankings and is only increasing- of course I can’t be sure about exact stats though.
Original post by chalks
Thanks - I thought that's what you'd refer me to.
Worth noting that there are no direct stats on which Universities the Magic Circle have typically recruited from, other than broadbrush Russell Group/Oxbridge data.
Worth noting that there are no direct stats on which Universities the Magic Circle have typically recruited from, other than broadbrush Russell Group/Oxbridge data.
What do you think of the most recent comment about Glasgow being an ancient university for opportunities- do you agree?
Original post by Picnicl
I stress this is just my personal opinion but Glasgow is an ancient university and this may count for something when it comes to opportunities.
Thank you for your response! I originally thought the same when applying but they don’t seem to appear at all in certain statistics, so very confusing but they’re an amazing university no doubt
Reply 16
A practical point: University-blind recruitment is now becoming widespread. Where practised, at the decision point the selection panel doesn't know if a candidate when to Footlights College, Oxbridge, or Fulchester University (formerly Fulchester School of Ditch Digging). At my chambers, staff take out CV items such as BA Law and BCL and replace them with "law degree (undergraduate)" and "law degree (Master's)" .
The candidate from Footlights may and usually will out perform Student Grant from Fulchester, but not always.
The candidate from Footlights may and usually will out perform Student Grant from Fulchester, but not always.
That’s an interesting point-
I’m fairly sure I know your answer already but I’m curious to your opinion on a previous comment saying Glasgow being an ancient university may provide better opportunities? It was just a speculation from the commenter, but curious to hear your perspective.
I’m fairly sure I know your answer already but I’m curious to your opinion on a previous comment saying Glasgow being an ancient university may provide better opportunities? It was just a speculation from the commenter, but curious to hear your perspective.
Original post by JE9
What do you think of the most recent comment about Glasgow being an ancient university for opportunities- do you agree?
I'm not really sure what relevance the age of an institution has when it comes to the calibre of current graduates and the market's perception of them/the institution as a whole.
Original post by chalks
I'm not really sure what relevance the age of an institution has when it comes to the calibre of current graduates and the market's perception of them/the institution as a whole.
Yeah, that makes sense-
I’m curious also I know you are skeptical about the usefulness of the Chambers study on magic circle statistics-
Do you think surely they must have formulated these based on something- as in the extent to which they’re accurate may vary, but surely York has a higher proportion of graduates in these firms, as opposed to Glasgow, who is never/ has never been ranked in any year-
Otherwise where would they be getting such data from, as firms do seem to be open about they’re recruitment statistics.
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