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[Official] US announces new tariffs on most countries

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Reply 80

Original post
by Quady
Uh-huh....
But I asked how the US putting tariffs on its imports would mean price rises for imports to the UK from Europe...
Surely Europe will need to dump its products on markets other than the US...

Yes Europe should be dumping it products on other markets instead of America and other countries do the same so that America will be affected with import goods not going in.
Trump tariffs has caused a major issue with stock markets throughout the world.

Reply 81

Original post
by Tracey_W
Yes Europe should be dumping it products on other markets instead of America and other countries do the same so that America will be affected with import goods not going in.
Trump tariffs has caused a major issue with stock markets throughout the world.

What issue?

Like I'm £20k down on paper over the last couple of days, but so what?

Reply 82

Original post
by Tracey_W
Yes Europe should be dumping it products on other markets instead of America and other countries do the same so that America will be affected with import goods not going in.
Trump tariffs has caused a major issue with stock markets throughout the world.

This approach would be politically sensible to put pressure on the American administration but economically inept that few reasonable countries would allow it in practice despite the nonsense coming out of some politicians’ mouths. The reason is because dumping of products can have negative impact on the local industry (i.e. prices, jobs and livelihoods) and we have seen this effect with steel where UK steel has struggled to compete because of accusations of China steel dumping activities.

••••••••••••
China's steel industry faces concerns about "dumping," where it exports steel at prices below domestic costs, potentially harming global steel producers, leading to increased anti-dumping investigations and tariffs.

.
••••••••••••

What is laughable about the global discourse is that many countries know that the rest of the world are full of s***. They play the same games whilst pretending not to do so. As a result, it is only the Americans that can tolerate the BS.

We can apply a scenario without the US. So the US has applied 25% car import tariffs on the rest of the world. Europe and other regions then choose to do business with each other excluding the Americans. So the Europeans try to sell their cars to Asia whilst at the same time, the Asians (Koreans, Chinese, Japanese etc) want to do the same.

Without American demand, the Asians want to enter the EU market, but we know the EU are protectionist, so they keep their 20% tariffs. The Chinese, Japanese, Koreans are also protectionists, so they keep their own barriers and tariffs to protect local industry.

What would be the resulting effect? Well, the Chinese could win that battle because they would mobilise their large workforce to manage their costs down and pump out volume that outcompetes other rivals. This means that other countries or car brands wont be able to compete on price despite the tariffs.

A mini showcase currently exists with German car manufacturers complaining about the level of competitiveness with other countries especially China.

•••••••••••••
German car manufacturers are facing a crisis due to rising production costs, including energy prices and labor costs, which threaten their competitiveness and the future of the industry.

For decades, car-making has been the jewel in Germany's industrial crown, a powerful symbol of the country's famous post-war economic miracle. Its "Big Three" brands, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW, have long been praised for their performance, innovation and precision engineering. But today, the German motor industry is struggling.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6pzwj6qq7o
••••••••••••

I am not an expert on trade but I suspect that the American master planners know what they are doing with the trade tariffs and probably understand that they have bankrolled the world for decades and it wont survive without them.

Reply 83

We will all be hit by these tariffs, one way or another, directly or indirectly. And, as always, there will be winners and losers.

What is happening here is an attack on the rotten, neoliberal, globalist economic system that has bedevilled us for the last forty years or so and which underpins the seismic shifts in political affiliations that we are seeing in the US, Europe and elsewhere.

Because voters have had enough of a world economic order in which livelihoods disappear, jobs migrate to where the wages are lowest and their sense of national identity is ridiculed, they are ready to contemplate radical change - even if, as in revolutions, it leaves them worse off in the short-term.

We have been here before, as Yanis Varoufakis - a man of the left, not the hard right - reminds us in this article. Anyone who believes that Mr Trump and his associates are merely "incompetent idiots" should read it:

https://unherd.com/2025/04/will-liberation-day-transform-the-world/?=refinnar

' ...“My philosophy, Mr President, is that all foreigners are out to screw us and it’s our job to screw them first.”...

No, those words were not spoken by members of President Trump’s team in advance of their “Liberation Day” tariff splurge. While the “foreigners are out to screw us” certainly has a Trumpian ring, it was uttered in the summer of 1971 by then Treasury Secretary John Connally, who succeeded in convincing his President to unleash the infamous Nixon Shock a couple of days later.

Commentators should know better than to pretend that the shock Trump is now delivering is both unprecedented and bound to fail like all "reckless" assaults on the prevailing order.

The Nixon Shock was more devastating than the one delivered today, especially for Europeans. And precisely because of the economic devastation caused, its architects achieved their main long-term objective: to ensure American hegemony grew alongside America’s twin (trade and government budget) deficits.

Trump is therefore not the first President to seek the controlled disintegration of the world economy by means of a devastating blow. Nor is he the first to purposely damage America’s allies to renew and prolong US hegemony. Nor the first who was prepared to hurt Wall Street in the short run in the process of strengthening US capital accumulation in the long term. Nixon had done all that half a century earlier.

And the irony is that the world the Western liberal establishment is grieving over today came into being as a result of the Nixon Shock...'


How will this attack on globalism play out? Time will tell. Already, we see the beginnings of a fightback from those with a vested interest in the existing neoliberal order.

If Mr Trump and his colleagues prevail, Western governments will be forced to pay far greater attention to the national interests of those that they serve. Even if there is a pushback, some of the consequences will stick.

The following comment from Wolfgang Munchau, Associate Editor of the Financial Times, is worthy of note:

'Will Trump get what he wants? In terms of reshoring manufacturing, the answer is probably yes. For the largest trading partners, such as China and Germany, this will be a massive shock because of what it implies for the sustainability of the current economic models...

Politically, these tariffs will work for Trump. Foreign manufacturers are already declaring that they will step up investments in the US. The old manufacturing jobs won’t come back, but new ones will be created. There is, though, a serious risk of a US recession this year if Trump fails to get his tax policies through Congress. The Republicans may lose the midterm elections. But if the goal is to raise external revenues, reduce the budget deficit, and reshore manufacturing, those tariffs will work so long as one remembers that they cannot do everything at the same time.

Europeans in particular should be wary of wishful thinking. There were plenty of gleeful projections of a more severe impact for the US than for Europe. In the short term, there will be a negative effect on the American economy, as the tariffs are a huge tax on US consumers.

It’s a struggle, though, to see what the EU can do in return. The bloc ran a trade surplus of $230 billion last year and the current account surplus against the rest of the world is rising again, back towards the pre-Covid levels, when the euro area adjusted to the sovereign debt crisis by depressing consumption and investment. This is the unsustainable element of the post-Cold War international economic model, along with China’s financial repression.

The EU could promise to import more US defence goods, but this would run counter to its strategy of making itself more independent from the US, which should be a more important strategic goal than tariff-avoidance. Nor can the EU simply decide to not buy more LNG from the US. In any case, even if the EU were to make such a promise, the tariffs would only be lifted afterwards.'

Reply 84

Original post
by Quady
Trump was open too.
Well if you call an economical historian an economist then I'd assume you'd call a medical historian a surgeon.

What was trump open to? China responded in both of trumps terms to his imposition and increase in tariffs, pretty much as they said they would. Trumps tariffs in his first term were generally regarded as having a negative effect on the us by various studies (wiki) which I guess was the main thing.

Youd be incorrect to assume Id call a medical historian a surgeon.

Reply 85

Original post
by Supermature
We will all be hit by these tariffs, one way or another, directly or indirectly. And, as always, there will be winners and losers.
What is happening here is an attack on the rotten, neoliberal, globalist economic system that has bedevilled us for the last forty years or so and which underpins the seismic shifts in political affiliations that we are seeing in the US, Europe and elsewhere.
Because voters have had enough of a world economic order in which livelihoods disappear, jobs migrate to where the wages are lowest and their sense of national identity is ridiculed, they are ready to contemplate radical change - even if, as in revolutions, it leaves them worse off in the short-term.
We have been here before, as Yanis Varoufakis - a man of the left, not the hard right - reminds us in this article. Anyone who believes that Mr Trump and his associates are merely "incompetent idiots" should read it:
https://unherd.com/2025/04/will-liberation-day-transform-the-world/?=refinnar
' ...“My philosophy, Mr President, is that all foreigners are out to screw us and it’s our job to screw them first.”...
No, those words were not spoken by members of President Trump’s team in advance of their “Liberation Day” tariff splurge. While the “foreigners are out to screw us” certainly has a Trumpian ring, it was uttered in the summer of 1971 by then Treasury Secretary John Connally, who succeeded in convincing his President to unleash the infamous Nixon Shock a couple of days later.
Commentators should know better than to pretend that the shock Trump is now delivering is both unprecedented and bound to fail like all "reckless" assaults on the prevailing order.
The Nixon Shock was more devastating than the one delivered today, especially for Europeans. And precisely because of the economic devastation caused, its architects achieved their main long-term objective: to ensure American hegemony grew alongside America’s twin (trade and government budget) deficits.
Trump is therefore not the first President to seek the controlled disintegration of the world economy by means of a devastating blow. Nor is he the first to purposely damage America’s allies to renew and prolong US hegemony. Nor the first who was prepared to hurt Wall Street in the short run in the process of strengthening US capital accumulation in the long term. Nixon had done all that half a century earlier.
And the irony is that the world the Western liberal establishment is grieving over today came into being as a result of the Nixon Shock...'

How will this attack on globalism play out? Time will tell. Already, we see the beginnings of a fightback from those with a vested interest in the existing neoliberal order.
If Mr Trump and his colleagues prevail, Western governments will be forced to pay far greater attention to the national interests of those that they serve. Even if there is a pushback, some of the consequences will stick.
The following comment from Wolfgang Munchau, Associate Editor of the Financial Times, is worthy of note:
'Will Trump get what he wants? In terms of reshoring manufacturing, the answer is probably yes. For the largest trading partners, such as China and Germany, this will be a massive shock because of what it implies for the sustainability of the current economic models...
Politically, these tariffs will work for Trump. Foreign manufacturers are already declaring that they will step up investments in the US. The old manufacturing jobs won’t come back, but new ones will be created. There is, though, a serious risk of a US recession this year if Trump fails to get his tax policies through Congress. The Republicans may lose the midterm elections. But if the goal is to raise external revenues, reduce the budget deficit, and reshore manufacturing, those tariffs will work so long as one remembers that they cannot do everything at the same time.
Europeans in particular should be wary of wishful thinking. There were plenty of gleeful projections of a more severe impact for the US than for Europe. In the short term, there will be a negative effect on the American economy, as the tariffs are a huge tax on US consumers.
It’s a struggle, though, to see what the EU can do in return. The bloc ran a trade surplus of $230 billion last year and the current account surplus against the rest of the world is rising again, back towards the pre-Covid levels, when the euro area adjusted to the sovereign debt crisis by depressing consumption and investment. This is the unsustainable element of the post-Cold War international economic model, along with China’s financial repression.
The EU could promise to import more US defence goods, but this would run counter to its strategy of making itself more independent from the US, which should be a more important strategic goal than tariff-avoidance. Nor can the EU simply decide to not buy more LNG from the US. In any case, even if the EU were to make such a promise, the tariffs would only be lifted afterwards.'

We aren't in the EU. We left.

Reply 86

Original post
by mqb2766
What was trump open to? China responded in both of trumps terms to his imposition and increase in tariffs, pretty much as they said they would. Trumps tariffs in his first term were generally regarded as having a negative effect on the us by various studies (wiki) which I guess was the main thing.
Youd be incorrect to assume Id call a medical historian a surgeon.

He has been open to tariffs.

https://www.factcheck.org/2024/11/trumps-agenda-tariffs/

Why do you call an economist historian an economist then?

Reply 87

Original post
by Quady
We aren't in the EU. We left.

Those anti-Brexit groups are quiet about that one.

Reply 88

Original post
by Quady
He has been open to tariffs.
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/11/trumps-agenda-tariffs/
Why do you call an economist historian an economist then?

Sure, trump justified them to other republicans as a means of (re)funding tax cuts. Any economic benefit (or harm) seems to be a secondary consideration.

You must realise it was a throwaway remark. But he has a phd in economic history and worked as a finanacial analyst for a couple of finance houses before entering politics. Saying that he was an economist is hardly a stretch. If you want to call him something different, go for it.

Reply 89

Original post
by Supermature
We will all be hit by these tariffs, one way or another, directly or indirectly. And, as always, there will be winners and losers.
What is happening here is an attack on the rotten, neoliberal, globalist economic system that has bedevilled us for the last forty years or so and which underpins the seismic shifts in political affiliations that we are seeing in the US, Europe and elsewhere.
Because voters have had enough of a world economic order in which livelihoods disappear, jobs migrate to where the wages are lowest and their sense of national identity is ridiculed, they are ready to contemplate radical change - even if, as in revolutions, it leaves them worse off in the short-term.
We have been here before, as Yanis Varoufakis - a man of the left, not the hard right - reminds us in this article. Anyone who believes that Mr Trump and his associates are merely "incompetent idiots" should read it:
https://unherd.com/2025/04/will-liberation-day-transform-the-world/?=refinnar
' ...“My philosophy, Mr President, is that all foreigners are out to screw us and it’s our job to screw them first.”...
No, those words were not spoken by members of President Trump’s team in advance of their “Liberation Day” tariff splurge. While the “foreigners are out to screw us” certainly has a Trumpian ring, it was uttered in the summer of 1971 by then Treasury Secretary John Connally, who succeeded in convincing his President to unleash the infamous Nixon Shock a couple of days later.
Commentators should know better than to pretend that the shock Trump is now delivering is both unprecedented and bound to fail like all "reckless" assaults on the prevailing order.
The Nixon Shock was more devastating than the one delivered today, especially for Europeans. And precisely because of the economic devastation caused, its architects achieved their main long-term objective: to ensure American hegemony grew alongside America’s twin (trade and government budget) deficits.
Trump is therefore not the first President to seek the controlled disintegration of the world economy by means of a devastating blow. Nor is he the first to purposely damage America’s allies to renew and prolong US hegemony. Nor the first who was prepared to hurt Wall Street in the short run in the process of strengthening US capital accumulation in the long term. Nixon had done all that half a century earlier.
And the irony is that the world the Western liberal establishment is grieving over today came into being as a result of the Nixon Shock...'

How will this attack on globalism play out? Time will tell. Already, we see the beginnings of a fightback from those with a vested interest in the existing neoliberal order.
If Mr Trump and his colleagues prevail, Western governments will be forced to pay far greater attention to the national interests of those that they serve. Even if there is a pushback, some of the consequences will stick.
The following comment from Wolfgang Munchau, Associate Editor of the Financial Times, is worthy of note:
'Will Trump get what he wants? In terms of reshoring manufacturing, the answer is probably yes. For the largest trading partners, such as China and Germany, this will be a massive shock because of what it implies for the sustainability of the current economic models...
Politically, these tariffs will work for Trump. Foreign manufacturers are already declaring that they will step up investments in the US. The old manufacturing jobs won’t come back, but new ones will be created. There is, though, a serious risk of a US recession this year if Trump fails to get his tax policies through Congress. The Republicans may lose the midterm elections. But if the goal is to raise external revenues, reduce the budget deficit, and reshore manufacturing, those tariffs will work so long as one remembers that they cannot do everything at the same time.
Europeans in particular should be wary of wishful thinking. There were plenty of gleeful projections of a more severe impact for the US than for Europe. In the short term, there will be a negative effect on the American economy, as the tariffs are a huge tax on US consumers.
It’s a struggle, though, to see what the EU can do in return. The bloc ran a trade surplus of $230 billion last year and the current account surplus against the rest of the world is rising again, back towards the pre-Covid levels, when the euro area adjusted to the sovereign debt crisis by depressing consumption and investment. This is the unsustainable element of the post-Cold War international economic model, along with China’s financial repression.
The EU could promise to import more US defence goods, but this would run counter to its strategy of making itself more independent from the US, which should be a more important strategic goal than tariff-avoidance. Nor can the EU simply decide to not buy more LNG from the US. In any case, even if the EU were to make such a promise, the tariffs would only be lifted afterwards.'

It is genuinely staggering that some have naively deceived themselves into believing that this is an attack on globalism motivated by Average Joes who have been marginalised by capitalists moving their jobs abroad.

The reality is Trump and those billionaires who back him aren't driven by their opposition to neoliberal economics as that is where their wealth comes from. They are reactionaries attempting to undermine liberal democracy.

Reply 90

Original post
by Quady
We aren't in the EU. We left.

Really, I must have missed that. 😉

On a serious note, the EU is still the UK's largest trading partner so there are bound to be knock-on effects. The 10% flat tariff and the tariffs on steel and vehicles are far from insignificant. By way of example:

‘Everyone is affected’: UK town with Jaguar Land Rover plant reacts to Trump’s tariffs

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/apr/04/it-will-kill-jaguar-land-rover-town-home-to-one-of-britains-largest-car-plants-reacts-to-trumps-tariffs

Reply 91

Original post
by Gazpacho.
It is genuinely staggering that some have naively deceived themselves into believing that this is an attack on globalism motivated by Average Joes who have been marginalised by capitalists moving their jobs abroad.
The reality is Trump and those billionaires who back him aren't driven by their opposition to neoliberal economics as that is where their wealth comes from. They are reactionaries attempting to undermine liberal democracy.

What is genuinely staggering is that the champagne socialists and woke millionaire liberals who have become so influential in the US Democratic Party and the social democratic parties of Europe still fail to understand why they are in retreat and how out of touch they are with their core supporters.

There is no better example than the current crop of EU leaders who spend their time arranging summit after summit, with endless plane journeys, five star hotels and six course "working" dinners for themselves and their sharp-suited acolytes. They talk ad nauseam about the threat to democracy without ever seeming to realise that it is they - and the globalist economic system they support - that constitutes the threat. They have convinced themselves that there is no alternative and that they might as well enjoy their entrenched privileges for as long as they last.

As someone who believes in genuine liberal democracy, I am disgusted by them.

The only way to fight extremism is for the forces of the centre-right and centre-left to wake up to how angry the "average Joes" have actually become. There is no shortage of examples upon which to draw. Take this, for instance, from today's BBC website:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr4nr3230e7o

'A couple of booths over, as she finished eating breakfast with her son Rob, Louise Gilson said - quietly - that she did not really trust the president.

But Gilson, along with many people here, said she wanted to see action. She wholeheartedly agreed when another diner commented: "Trump may be wrong, but at least he's trying. The other people wouldn't have done squat," she said, referring to the Democratic Party...

They described a gradual erosion in quality of life that they believe has made many people willing to roll the dice even when economists say Trump's tariff plan comes with stark risks.

"It was a good little town to grow up in," Rob Gilson recalled. But he said it now seemed less safe and friendly than when he was growing up in the 60s and 70s.

"It seems like the heart of America is gone," he said.'

And yet some people still wonder why Mr Trump regained the Presidency after all his opponents attempts to destroy him.

Those same opponents should be asking themselves where they went wrong.

Reply 92

Original post
by Wired_1800
This approach would be politically sensible to put pressure on the American administration but economically inept that few reasonable countries would allow it in practice despite the nonsense coming out of some politicians’ mouths. The reason is because dumping of products can have negative impact on the local industry (i.e. prices, jobs and livelihoods) and we have seen this effect with steel where UK steel has struggled to compete because of accusations of China steel dumping activities.
••••••••••••
China's steel industry faces concerns about "dumping," where it exports steel at prices below domestic costs, potentially harming global steel producers, leading to increased anti-dumping investigations and tariffs.
.
••••••••••••
What is laughable about the global discourse is that many countries know that the rest of the world are full of s***. They play the same games whilst pretending not to do so. As a result, it is only the Americans that can tolerate the BS.
We can apply a scenario without the US. So the US has applied 25% car import tariffs on the rest of the world. Europe and other regions then choose to do business with each other excluding the Americans. So the Europeans try to sell their cars to Asia whilst at the same time, the Asians (Koreans, Chinese, Japanese etc) want to do the same.
Without American demand, the Asians want to enter the EU market, but we know the EU are protectionist, so they keep their 20% tariffs. The Chinese, Japanese, Koreans are also protectionists, so they keep their own barriers and tariffs to protect local industry.
What would be the resulting effect? Well, the Chinese could win that battle because they would mobilise their large workforce to manage their costs down and pump out volume that outcompetes other rivals. This means that other countries or car brands wont be able to compete on price despite the tariffs.
A mini showcase currently exists with German car manufacturers complaining about the level of competitiveness with other countries especially China.
•••••••••••••
German car manufacturers are facing a crisis due to rising production costs, including energy prices and labor costs, which threaten their competitiveness and the future of the industry.
For decades, car-making has been the jewel in Germany's industrial crown, a powerful symbol of the country's famous post-war economic miracle. Its "Big Three" brands, Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW, have long been praised for their performance, innovation and precision engineering. But today, the German motor industry is struggling.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6pzwj6qq7o
••••••••••••
I am not an expert on trade but I suspect that the American master planners know what they are doing with the trade tariffs and probably understand that they have bankrolled the world for decades and it wont survive without them.

"the American master planners know what they are doing"
😂
What makes you say that? The evidence suggests the opposite.
Is it simply because you just accept anything Trump says, without question?
(edited 11 months ago)

Reply 93

Original post
by Wired_1800
Those anti-Brexit groups are quiet about that one.

Really?
There has been much talk of how closer ties with the EU would benefit the UK in the context of the tariffs.
All the anti-Brexit groups I am aware of are still anti-Brexit.
Ironically, many commentators are now calling the tariffs fiasco "America's Brexit".

Reply 94

Original post
by Supermature
What is genuinely staggering is that the champagne socialists and woke millionaire liberals who have become so influential in the US Democratic Party and the social democratic parties of Europe still fail to understand why they are in retreat and how out of touch they are with their core supporters.
There is no better example than the current crop of EU leaders who spend their time arranging summit after summit, with endless plane journeys, five star hotels and six course "working" dinners for themselves and their sharp-suited acolytes. They talk ad nauseam about the threat to democracy without ever seeming to realise that it is they - and the globalist economic system they support - that constitutes the threat. They have convinced themselves that there is no alternative and that they might as well enjoy their entrenched privileges for as long as they last.
As someone who believes in genuine liberal democracy, I am disgusted by them.
The only way to fight extremism is for the forces of the centre-right and centre-left to wake up to how angry the "average Joes" have actually become. There is no shortage of examples upon which to draw. Take this, for instance, from today's BBC website:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr4nr3230e7o
'A couple of booths over, as she finished eating breakfast with her son Rob, Louise Gilson said - quietly - that she did not really trust the president.
But Gilson, along with many people here, said she wanted to see action. She wholeheartedly agreed when another diner commented: "Trump may be wrong, but at least he's trying. The other people wouldn't have done squat," she said, referring to the Democratic Party...
They described a gradual erosion in quality of life that they believe has made many people willing to roll the dice even when economists say Trump's tariff plan comes with stark risks.
"It was a good little town to grow up in," Rob Gilson recalled. But he said it now seemed less safe and friendly than when he was growing up in the 60s and 70s.
"It seems like the heart of America is gone," he said.'
And yet some people still wonder why Mr Trump regained the Presidency after all his opponents attempts to destroy him.
Those same opponents should be asking themselves where they went wrong.

It's because a lot of voters are idiots who will believe any old bull****, even if evidence to the contrary is conclusive.
That's why millions of working people voted for the wealthy and privileged elite who were obviously going to make their lives worse.

What can be done about that? Who knows, but the idea that using evidence and rational argument to persuade idiots who don't care about evidence and rational argument is unlikely to succeed. Even when their own jobs, security, standard of living, freedoms, etc suffer, they will just blame whichever scapegoat is presented to them by their preferred demagogue.
Dr Gregory House's aphorism "If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people" applies equally here.

And then there is the bizarre attitude of many of those idiots that destroying the economy, society, democracy, etc, is a price worth paying if it means"owning libtards".

Reply 95

Original post
by 2WheelGod
"the American master planners know what they are doing"
😂
What makes you say that? The evidence suggests the opposite.
Is it simply because you just accept anything Trump says, without question?

Trump wont have set up this tariff scheme without the knowledge and consent of the American master planners.

Reply 96

Original post
by 2WheelGod
Really?
There has been much talk of how closer ties with the EU would benefit the UK in the context of the tariffs.
All the anti-Brexit groups I am aware of are still anti-Brexit.
Ironically, many commentators are now calling the tariffs fiasco "America's Brexit".

But they are not demanding that the US slaps us with 20% tariffs though to align to the EU.

Reply 97

Original post
by Wired_1800
Trump wont have set up this tariff scheme without the knowledge and consent of the American master planners.

😂
Who are "The American Master Planners"?

Reply 98

Original post
by Wired_1800
But they are not demanding that the US slaps us with 20% tariffs though to align to the EU.

No. They are saying that Trump should not be engaging in his ill-thought and disastrous trade war in the first place.

Reply 99

Original post
by 2WheelGod
😂
Who are "The American Master Planners"?

Those who run the American system. If you think that the President is as powerful as he is perceived, you are not paying attention.

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