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Bullying during a creative writing Seminar

During a creative writing Seminar at the first BA English and creative writing undergraduate course the lecturer gave me a very negative feedback about my poem. When I was asked to talk in class I explained few points about my poem and said that on my opinion there was nothing to be changed. At that point two girls started to talked to me in a very rude way, rising their voice and one of the classmates stood up and shouting at me said that my poem was ugly.
At that point the lecturer proposed a break and I went home in shock .

I started a complaint stage 1 and the Covenor after a consultation with the lecturer told me to apologise immediately.
As a gesture of goodwill I apologised but then I explained that I did not have anything to apologise for and that they should apologise. But I was more concerned to have a clarification with the lecturer.

She never replied to my emails and when she was asked by other tutors to provide a written copy of her feedback she egnored those emails too.

Then I escalated my complaint to stage two. Today I received their decision. They decided to dismiss the case because she said that when I walked into the class I sat down leg crossed and my face was not facing hers . Then she said she allowed a break to the class because I shouted.
She also said I had an argument with her about emails remained unanswered when it was something she brought up.

I am an autistic adult student with back issue and that day I was terribly in pain. She asked me if I was upset because of her unanswered emails and I simply said no.

Basically she lied making me look like a lier and a rude person when the situation was the opposite because I was a victim of bullying.
This is having an impact of my well-being and I feel like wanting to drop out.

All I want is to make sure I won't have that tutor ever again in the next years. It is my word against hers and perhaps also few students who are on her side because she is the lecturer.
Therefore what I want is only not to deal with her ever in the future, therfore I have escalated the complaint to stage three but I don't know if I can refuse to have a specific tutor because problems of communication with her.
Very unfair and unprofessional tutor. I don't have issues with anyone. Just with her. Shameful. I feel discriminated.

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Reply 1

Original post
by c.nadia
During a creative writing Seminar at the first BA English and creative writing undergraduate course the lecturer gave me a very negative feedback about my poem. When I was asked to talk in class I explained few points about my poem and said that on my opinion there was nothing to be changed. At that point two girls started to talked to me in a very rude way, rising their voice and one of the classmates stood up and shouting at me said that my poem was ugly.
At that point the lecturer proposed a break and I went home in shock .
I started a complaint stage 1 and the Covenor after a consultation with the lecturer told me to apologise immediately.
As a gesture of goodwill I apologised but then I explained that I did not have anything to apologise for and that they should apologise. But I was more concerned to have a clarification with the lecturer.
She never replied to my emails and when she was asked by other tutors to provide a written copy of her feedback she egnored those emails too.
Then I escalated my complaint to stage two. Today I received their decision. They decided to dismiss the case because she said that when I walked into the class I sat down leg crossed and my face was not facing hers . Then she said she allowed a break to the class because I shouted.
She also said I had an argument with her about emails remained unanswered when it was something she brought up.
I am an autistic adult student with back issue and that day I was terribly in pain. She asked me if I was upset because of her unanswered emails and I simply said no.
Basically she lied making me look like a lier and a rude person when the situation was the opposite because I was a victim of bullying.
This is having an impact of my well-being and I feel like wanting to drop out.
All I want is to make sure I won't have that tutor ever again in the next years. It is my word against hers and perhaps also few students who are on her side because she is the lecturer.
Therefore what I want is only not to deal with her ever in the future, therfore I have escalated the complaint to stage three but I don't know if I can refuse to have a specific tutor because problems of communication with her.
Very unfair and unprofessional tutor. I don't have issues with anyone. Just with her. Shameful. I feel discriminated.

Omg thats horrible, what uni its? And please stay away from that uni, if that lecturer allowed that is because it happened before so please dont go to that uni.
I’m confused what you were asked to (and agreed to) apologise for? You mentioned the accusation of shouting, but again you haven’t said whether you did raise your voice or not.

Are you getting guidance from your Student Union regarding the complaints?

Reply 3

Original post
by Admit-One
I’m confused what you were asked to (and agreed to) apologise for? You mentioned the accusation of shouting, but again you haven’t said whether you did raise your voice or not.
Are you getting guidance from your Student Union regarding the complaints?


I never raised my voice. It was the opposite. Two girls spoke to me in a very rude tone rising their voice and one young man shouted at me that my poem was ugly . The only thing I did was saying that I did not agree with the lecturer's opinion about my poem (her feedback was not constructive) . I even thanked everyone for their feedback. I emailed the Union and they told me to rise the complaint from stage one and on , therfore now I am at stage three because the stage two outcome reported what the lecturer said, and that is that she proposed a break because I was shouting. What is disgusting is that as it seemes no one wants to testify and tell what truly happened . There was my note taker and he said he doesn't want to get involved.

Reply 4

Original post
by Anonymous
Omg thats horrible, what uni its? And please stay away from that uni, if that lecturer allowed that is because it happened before so please dont go to that uni.


It is Goldsmiths University in Lewisham. Unfortunately I changed already Uni . Last year at Birkbeck University I was discriminated and OIA recognised their wrong. The University reinstated me to my study and compensated me but I decided to change University. I picked Goldsmiths because they have the creative writing module and paradoxically it is just this giving me so much trouble.

Reply 5

Unless you're already writing at a quality to be published, responding to your tutor that "there's nothing to be changed in your poem" reeks of arrogance. Why would you join a creative writing course if you're not going to entertain criticism of your work? I did a creative writing module in my 3rd year and thought my work was the bees knees but I look at it now and understand that it was moderate at best.

That aside, the tutor and the university seem to be handling the situation poorly, if your version of events are to be believed then the tutor should be facing some repercussions, as well as the university speaking to those other students. Your seminars should be a safe place to air your work and you shouldn't feel judged or attacked. I don't think you can realistically ask not to be placed with a specific tutor again but I expect that depends on how many tutors are available. It will also probably depend on the outcome of your escalation, if the university finds no misconduct on the part of the tutor it will be presented as a problem you need to get over.

Reply 6

Original post
by Jonah Ramone
Unless you're already writing at a quality to be published, responding to your tutor that "there's nothing to be changed in your poem" reeks of arrogance. Why would you join a creative writing course if you're not going to entertain criticism of your work? I did a creative writing module in my 3rd year and thought my work was the bees knees but I look at it now and understand that it was moderate at best.
That aside, the tutor and the university seem to be handling the situation poorly, if your version of events are to be believed then the tutor should be facing some repercussions, as well as the university speaking to those other students. Your seminars should be a safe place to air your work and you shouldn't feel judged or attacked. I don't think you can realistically ask not to be placed with a specific tutor again but I expect that depends on how many tutors are available. It will also probably depend on the outcome of your escalation, if the university finds no misconduct on the part of the tutor it will be presented as a problem you need to get over.


Dear Jonah,
usually I accept constructive criticism. I have changed few words and adapt few of my poems when I was suggested to by other tutors and it made sense to me too. But this time was different. It was not clear what needed to be improved because the feedback came across as all negative. I sensed that the lecturer was hostile to me since I sat down in the class. I felt she was not professional and objective. Mutter of fact in stage two she also complaint that when I walked into the class I sat crossed legs and not facing her .

I was actually in pain with my back (The disability team is aware of my disabilities) and I was struggling staying seated.

She has never been supportive and when I asked her to have a clarificatory meeting she never replied. I asked this also to the wellbeing team and the Covenor but I was egnored. The Covenor told me they wanted to dismiss the case and that's it but after what I had been through that day I couldn't. I can no longer trust that lecturer neither I feel comfortable to see again those students who shouted at me. They feel strong now as they have never been rebuked for what they have done and never asked to apologise (it was against the seminar policy).

It is absurd that at stage one the Covenor asked me to apologise straight away after having talked to the lecturer.

Reply 7

Original post
by c.nadia
Dear Jonah,
usually I accept constructive criticism. I have changed few words and adapt few of my poems when I was suggested to by other tutors and it made sense to me too. But this time was different. It was not clear what needed to be improved because the feedback came across as all negative. I sensed that the lecturer was hostile to me since I sat down in the class. I felt she was not professional and objective. Mutter of fact in stage two she also complaint that when I walked into the class I sat crossed legs and not facing her .
I was actually in pain with my back (The disability team is aware of my disabilities) and I was struggling staying seated.
She has never been supportive and when I asked her to have a clarificatory meeting she never replied. I asked this also to the wellbeing team and the Covenor but I was egnored. The Covenor told me they wanted to dismiss the case and that's it but after what I had been through that day I couldn't. I can no longer trust that lecturer neither I feel comfortable to see again those students who shouted at me. They feel strong now as they have never been rebuked for what they have done and never asked to apologise (it was against the seminar policy).
It is absurd that at stage one the Covenor asked me to apologise straight away after having talked to the lecturer.


Sorry I forgot to mention that when I and the note taker organisation's Manager asked the lecturer for a written copy of her feedback she never replied to those emails. She has always egnored all emails and attempts to have a clarification.
Original post
by c.nadia
I never raised my voice. It was the opposite. Two girls spoke to me in a very rude tone rising their voice and one young man shouted at me that my poem was ugly . The only thing I did was saying that I did not agree with the lecturer's opinion about my poem (her feedback was not constructive) . I even thanked everyone for their feedback. I emailed the Union and they told me to rise the complaint from stage one and on , therfore now I am at stage three because the stage two outcome reported what the lecturer said, and that is that she proposed a break because I was shouting. What is disgusting is that as it seemes no one wants to testify and tell what truly happened . There was my note taker and he said he doesn't want to get involved.

Have you been engaging with the SU throughout, not just when they initially told you to raise a complaint? My concern is that you are escalating this but it may not have a reasonable chance of an outcome you’d consider satisfactory.

You might also want to talk to your unis disability/ wellbeing services. They can give advice from a “reasonable adjustment” perspective.

Reply 9

Original post
by Admit-One
Have you been engaging with the SU throughout, not just when they initially told you to raise a complaint? My concern is that you are escalating this but it may not have a reasonable chance of an outcome you’d consider satisfactory.
You might also want to talk to your unis disability/ wellbeing services. They can give advice from a “reasonable adjustment” perspective.


I had a meeting with the wellbeing team and the ASD clinician. It was completely useless. The only thing the manager told me is they cannot get involved.

Reply 10

Original post
by c.nadia
I had a meeting with the wellbeing team and the ASD clinician. It was completely useless. The only thing the manager told me is they cannot get involved.


My gut feeling if this a your word against theirs situation, you've got no witnesses willing to corroborate what was said, and you've got two stages of failed complaints already, then the final stage complaint is very, very unlikely to be successful.

Reply 11

Original post
by Admit-One
My gut feeling if this a your word against theirs situation, you've got no witnesses willing to corroborate what was said, and you've got two stages of failed complaints already, then the final stage complaint is very, very unlikely to be successful.


My aim is to be able to avoid that lecturer for the next years. If stage three will be also unsuccessful there is always Ombudsman. The issue is not just what happened in class , it is about her behaviour. She never replied to my emails and other organisations when she was asked for a written copy of her feedback. She was never available to have a clarification.

Reply 12

Original post
by Admit-One
My gut feeling if this a your word against theirs situation, you've got no witnesses willing to corroborate what was said, and you've got two stages of failed complaints already, then the final stage complaint is very, very unlikely to be successful.


Besides, I don't think they are thoroughly investigating if no one has turned up to tell what truly happened. I cannot believe there is no one to tell the truth. I am not giving up.

Reply 13

Original post
by c.nadia
My aim is to be able to avoid that lecturer for the next years. If stage three will be also unsuccessful there is always Ombudsman. The issue is not just what happened in class , it is about her behaviour. She never replied to my emails and other organisations when she was asked for a written copy of her feedback. She was never available to have a clarification.

Original post
by c.nadia
Besides, I don't think they are thoroughly investigating if no one has turned up to tell what truly happened. I cannot believe there is no one to tell the truth. I am not giving up.

Well, you may not have much choice if the uni final stage and ombudsman complaints are both unsuccessful. Stage 3 complaints don't often do a 180, although obviously it is possible.

The lecturer not responding to formal requests, (especially as part of a formal complaint) is decidedly not cool, but I do wonder whether that would make any difference to the outcome of the complaint, IE. do they need to provide a written version of the verbal feedback in a lecture/seminar. I can't answer that.

Reply 14

Original post
by Admit-One
Well, you may not have much choice if the uni final stage and ombudsman complaints are both unsuccessful. Stage 3 complaints don't often do a 180, although obviously it is possible.
The lecturer not responding to formal requests, (especially as part of a formal complaint) is decidedly not cool, but I do wonder whether that would make any difference to the outcome of the complaint, IE. do they need to provide a written version of the verbal feedback in a lecture/seminar. I can't answer that.


I don't find your comments much helpful to be honest. Are you trying to discouraged me from escalating further? Who tells you they will be unsuccessful? I am confident because I am a disable vulnerable person who has been a victim of bullying and I have evidence of discrimination by the lecturer.

Reply 15

Original post
by Admit-One
Well, you may not have much choice if the uni final stage and ombudsman complaints are both unsuccessful. Stage 3 complaints don't often do a 180, although obviously it is possible.
The lecturer not responding to formal requests, (especially as part of a formal complaint) is decidedly not cool, but I do wonder whether that would make any difference to the outcome of the complaint, IE. do they need to provide a written version of the verbal feedback in a lecture/seminar. I can't answer that.


I don't know who there is behind these decisions but the lecturer's negligence and lack of professionalism seems evident. And anyway I don't mind. I have to know that I have done my best to do what is right. Is this a good example for the University? I think it is beyond shameful that I am left alone having to fight so hard. I am a senior student and my word should be taken into consideration. I am disgusted.

Reply 16

Original post
by Admit-One
Well, you may not have much choice if the uni final stage and ombudsman complaints are both unsuccessful. Stage 3 complaints don't often do a 180, although obviously it is possible.
The lecturer not responding to formal requests, (especially as part of a formal complaint) is decidedly not cool, but I do wonder whether that would make any difference to the outcome of the complaint, IE. do they need to provide a written version of the verbal feedback in a lecture/seminar. I can't answer that.


And anyway, last year I won a case of discrimination with OIA's help.

Reply 17

Original post
by c.nadia
I don't find your comments much helpful to be honest. Are you trying to discouraged me from escalating further? Who tells you they will be unsuccessful? I am confident because I am a disable vulnerable person who has been a victim of bullying and I have evidence of discrimination by the lecturer.

I've signposted you to relevant points of guidance, I've asked you to clarify what your complaint actually is, and what advice you've received to date. I've advised you on the likelihood of a stage 3 complaint being upheld unless you are introducing new info not previously raised. What you do with that is up to you.

Original post
by c.nadia
Is this a good example for the University?

Nope.

Original post
by c.nadia
I am a senior student and my word should be taken into consideration. I am disgusted.

You have every right to be disgusted. Your word has as much weight as any other student.

Original post
by c.nadia
And anyway, last year I won a case of discrimination with OIA's help.

This wasn't in dispute.

Reply 18

Original post
by Admit-One
I've signposted you to relevant points of guidance, I've asked you to clarify what your complaint actually is, and what advice you've received to date. I've advised you on the likelihood of a stage 3 complaint being upheld unless you are introducing new info not previously raised. What you do with that is up to you.
Nope.
You have every right to be disgusted. Your word has as much weight as any other student.
This wasn't in dispute.


I appreciate all this but what I see in this complaint procedure there isn't any reasonable adjustments for a disable person. This is all left on me and I am already overwhelmed and distressed. Next month I will be given an ASD social worker and PA, hopefully she will help me. It seems to be the wellbeing team and complaint team, nobody is really considering my ASD. Recently as result of this my anxiety has worsened and I have panic attacks on daily basis and nightmares.

Reply 19

Original post
by c.nadia
I appreciate all this but what I see in this complaint procedure there isn't any reasonable adjustments for a disable person. This is all left on me and I am already overwhelmed and distressed. Next month I will be given an ASD social worker and PA, hopefully she will help me. It seems to be the wellbeing team and complaint team, nobody is really considering my ASD. Recently as result of this my anxiety has worsened and I have panic attacks on daily basis and nightmares.

All valid points and the reason I am surprised that the wellbeing team washed their hands of you.

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