The Student Room Group

Boundary conditions confusion

When finding the particular solution to a second order homogeneous/non-homogeneous differential equations, I keep getting the boundary conditions wrong. I usually get the first one right (regarding displacement), but whenever I try to find the second boundary question relating the velocity to the time at t = 0s, I get it wrong. Here are some examples.

1. https://ibb.co/ZpB7VM3k - I understand the first boundary condition. When t = 0, x = 0. However, the second boundary condition is, when t = 0, dx/dt = U. How can that be possible, when the spring initially lies at rest?

2. https://ibb.co/VhvxWhy - For the second boundary condition, the answer states that when t = 0, dx/dt = 0. However, the question says that "at time t = 0, the lift starts to move vertically upwards with constant speed U".

Am I perhaps thinking in the wrong way?
(edited 11 months ago)

Reply 1

Original post
by TwisterBlade596
When finding the particular solution to a second order homogeneous/non-homogeneous differential equations, I keep getting the boundary conditions wrong. I usually get the first one right (regarding displacement), but whenever I try to find the second boundary question relating the velocity to the time at t = 0s, I get it wrong. Here are some examples.
1. https://ibb.co/ZpB7VM3k - I understand the first boundary condition. When t = 0, x = 0. However, the second boundary condition is, when t = 0, dx/dt = U. How can that be possible, when the spring initially lies at rest?
2. https://ibb.co/VhvxWhy - For the second boudary condition, the answer states that when t = 0, dx/dt = 0. However, the question says that "at time t = 0, the lift starts to move vertically upwards with constant speed U".
Am I perhaps thinking in the wrong way?

For 1), its the extension in spring thats the subject of the ode, not the particle, P. displacement. So initially P (A) is at rest, and at time zero, the spring is at its natural length (extension is zero) and B is moving with velocity u, so the extension has initial velocity u as extension is B-A (assuming they refer to positiions) and that gives u-0 so u.

2) is the displacement of the particle, so the opposite of the first case. As the particle is at rest, the initial velocity is zero.

Reply 2

Original post
by mqb2766
For 1), its the extension in spring thats the subject of the ode, not the particle, P. displacement. So initially P (A) is at rest, and at time zero, the spring is at its natural length (extension is zero) and B is moving with velocity u, so the extension has initial velocity u as extension is B-A (assuming they refer to positiions) and that gives u-0 so u.
2) is the displacement of the particle, so the opposite of the first case. As the particle is at rest, the initial velocity is zero.

Okay. I think I understand your answer to 2) but for 1), because "initially the spring lies at rest on the horizontal surface" (I don't think I read the question properly), wouldn't that mean that at t = 0, dx/dt is equal to 0?

Reply 3

Original post
by TwisterBlade596
Okay. I think I understand your answer to 2) but for 1), because "initially the spring lies at rest on the horizontal surface" (I don't think I read the question properly), wouldn't that mean that at t = 0, dx/dt is equal to 0?

The extension x(t) is
x(t) = B(t) - A(t) - l
where B is the position of B, similar for A and l is the natural length. If its initially at rest, then B(0)-A(0) = l so x(0)=0. "The end B is then moved .... with constant speed U". So when the motion starts, B has (just) started moving with constant speed U so
dx(0)/dt = dB(0)/dt - dA(0)/dt = U - 0
as A is instantaneously stationary at t=0. Youre saying that B begins move with constant speed U at t=0 and A does not instantaneously respond, due to the dynamics of the spring.

Reply 4

Original post
by mqb2766
The extension x(t) is
x(t) = B(t) - A(t) - l
where B is the position of B, similar for A and l is the natural length. If its initially at rest, then B(0)-A(0) = l so x(0)=0. "The end B is then moved .... with constant speed U". So when the motion starts, B has (just) started moving with constant speed U so
dx(0)/dt = dB(0)/dt - dA(0)/dt = U - 0
as A is instantaneously stationary at t=0. Youre saying that B begins move with constant speed U at t=0 and A does not instantaneously respond, due to the dynamics of the spring.

Okay I think that makes sense thank you! The equations you added helped a lot.

Reply 5

Original post
by TwisterBlade596
Okay I think that makes sense thank you! The equations you added helped a lot.

In a sense, you have to imagine that the end of the spring B suddenly starts moving with constant speed U for t>=0 but its speed is 0 for t<0, so the speed is a step function
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaviside_step_function
which jumps/steps up at t=0. Its a fairly common thing to model with dynamic systems but obviously the instantaneous jump in speed is idealised.

Quick Reply

How The Student Room is moderated

To keep The Student Room safe for everyone, we moderate posts that are added to the site.