OCR A Level Classical Civilisation Paper 1 (H408/11) - 13th May 2025 [Exam Chat]

Reply 40

8

Original post

by NestortheWise

What was the actual wording of the 20 markers again? And the Aeneid 30. Worried I answered wrong!

Iliad 20 - 'evil death' and it was something like how fair is this statement in the depiction of death in the Iliad.

Aeneid 20 - the bond between fathers and sons is the most powerful form of familial relationships in the aeneid (something like that, but defo familial and powerful)

Aeneid 30 - 'Aeneas; always dutiful, always dull' and then it was like, discuss/evaluate

(edited 6 months ago)

Reply 41

honest-succor

8

What points did people do for Iliad 20, Aeneid 20 and Aeneid 30 !?

Reply 42

dvwill

5

Original post

by honest-succor

What points did people do for Iliad 20, Aeneid 20 and Aeneid 30 !?

aeneid 20 - lausas and mezentius/turnus and daunas, aeneas and ascanius, venus and aeneas

Reply 43

brrbrrpa

5

Original post

by dvwill

aeneid 20 - lausas and mezentius/turnus and daunas, aeneas and ascanius, venus and aeneas

I’m cooked why did I completely forget abt Venus and Aeneas

Reply 44

GabrielSmith1736

1

Original post

by fleur13!

i mentions brutal deaths, grief but gives kleos

I managed to answer similarly but omg I forgot to use the words time/kleos... whatevs what can you do now

Reply 45

maebisset

1

about aeneas being dull and dutiful how did u structure it and what context and critics also which passages did u think was more dramatic

Reply 46

honest-succor

8

Original post

by maebisset

about aeneas being dull and dutiful how did u structure it and what context and critics also which passages did u think was more dramatic

I did paragraph on him being dull and dutiful, he ignores his emotions and fulfils his prophecy
Then one on how he isn't 'always' dutiful cause he goes against his duty at times
And then one on how his character is complex and interesting, not dull

I used 4 critics but one of them I said the wrong name I think - oops!

For comparative I said Iliad, gave reasons for why they both dramatic but picked Iliad simply because his speech at the end is dramatic and the Aeneid one cuts off right before Aeneas has a dramatic change of character!

What about you??

Reply 47

maebisset

1

Original post

by honest-succor

I did paragraph on him being dull and dutiful, he ignores his emotions and fulfils his prophecy
Then one on how he isn't 'always' dutiful cause he goes against his duty at times
And then one on how his character is complex and interesting, not dull
I used 4 critics but one of them I said the wrong name I think - oops!
For comparative I said Iliad, gave reasons for why they both dramatic but picked Iliad simply because his speech at the end is dramatic and the Aeneid one cuts off right before Aeneas has a dramatic change of character!
What about you??

i said the illiad one too cos hector was resolved to die which make him heroic and therefore dramatic whereas turnus was just like weak and sad and begging for his life which i would say is more sad then dramatic
then for the dull and dutiful i just did how he is dutiful and then how he isnt at times then how he dull at times then he isnt and my line of arguement was basically he becomes more dull as he is more dutiful because he suspresses his human emotions like lust and anger that he indulged in earlier in the epic in order to achieve his destiny i think i used the critic cowan "aeneas is a work in progess" and heinze "man grows to an ideal through the endurance of and victory of suffering idk how that is really linked the the question but oh wwell whole lot of waffle really

Reply 48

poubis

5

Original post

by honest-succor

What points did people do for Iliad 20, Aeneid 20 and Aeneid 30 !?

i cant rlly remember what i put for the other questions but for the iliad 20, i did:
agreeing with the statement.

•

some deaths portrayed in grotesque ways (cebriones' death in bk 16 - eyes rolling out his head, lycon's decapitation in book 16).

•

hector and achilles question death (bk 9 achilles says nothing equals the value of life, hector flees from his oncoming death in bk 22).

•

effects of death on loved ones = tragic (bk 6 hector saying if he dies troy will eventuall fall and andromache will be enslaved, bk 22 andromache saying astyanax will be mocked and derided as a fatherless child, bk 23 briseis' lament for pat, bk 24 funeral dirges for hector by priam, helen, hecuba and andro).

disagreeing with statement.

•

other deaths described w natural / romantic imagery (simoisius poplar simile bk 4, gorgythion poppy simile bk 8, euphorbus described like an olive tree bursting into white blossom bk 17).

•

death ultimately integral to earning kleos (jenkyns argues "the purpose of a homeric hero is to die") therefore death must be portrayed at least somewhat positively.

•

(this point was a little iffy so i just stuck it at the end) it is achilles and priam bonding over their shared experiences w death that allows them to agree to a temporary truce and for achilles' rage to end - ending the iliad.

Reply 49

Tom_C69420

Original post

by bishbam

wtah was that paper… i mean it wasn’t terrible but the phrasing of the questions was horrible- i swear i predicted the father son relationships question but i wanted it to be the 30 marker :frown:

((((

Honestly I thought it was all pretty good apart from the 30 markers which weren’t quite as good but were still fine (did the Aeneid one)

Reply 50

Anitkas

1

Original post

by lilogreenwood

what was the odyssey 30 marker if anyone remembers i can't remember how it was phrased. Was it A. is athena or penelope more important to Odysseus or B. is athena more important to odysseus or penelope

I think it was B

Reply 51

worm440

5

Original post

by lilogreenwood

what was the odyssey 30 marker if anyone remembers i can't remember how it was phrased. Was it A. is athena or penelope more important to Odysseus or B. is athena more important to odysseus or penelope

it was '"Athene is more important to Odysseus than she is to Penelope" How far do you agree?'

Reply 52

Liz079

1

Original post

by honest-succor

What points did people do for Iliad 20, Aeneid 20 and Aeneid 30 !?

Aeneid 20- father-son: Mezentius and Lausus, Pallas and Evander, Aeneas Anchises and Ascanius
mother-son so Aeneas and Venus
then siblings so Juturna and Turnus and Anna and Dido

Reply 53

feofewo

1

Original post

by worm440

it was '"Athene is more important to Odysseus than she is to Penelope" How far do you agree?'

like wtf is that Question. also the 20 marker for the Odyssey was horrible. i didnt know what to do.

Reply 54

worm440

5

Original post

by feofewo

like wtf is that Question. also the 20 marker for the Odyssey was horrible. i didnt know what to do.

weirdly enough, I loved the 30 marker. My points were like Athene constantly helps him so must be valued by Odysseus, Athene also says they're both reknowned for their cleverness and thus must have special bond (plus she isn't in disguise so extra special). For Penelope I said she's also clever so Athene may have some importance, plus she is constantly weaving so Athene must have some importance to her everyday life as she is the patron of weaving.

Reply 55

itsestellasc

1

Original post

by feofewo

like wtf is that Question. also the 20 marker for the Odyssey was horrible. i didnt know what to do.

omg i hated how the 20 marker was worded, i ran out of time so only covered odysseus but was going to do poseidon revenge on the phaeacians and zeus on odysseus men - does anyone know roughly where you’re capped off in marks if you didn’t really cover a range of examples in the odyssey? also i used different quotes for scholarship in the thirty marker but they are both by “williams” whxih i wrote in the essay but different williams, will an examiner not count it as a range of scholarship despite it being from different people?

Reply 56

aac659

1

Original post

by itsestellasc

omg i hated how the 20 marker was worded, i ran out of time so only covered odysseus but was going to do poseidon revenge on the phaeacians and zeus on odysseus men - does anyone know roughly where you’re capped off in marks if you didn’t really cover a range of examples in the odyssey? also i used different quotes for scholarship in the thirty marker but they are both by “williams” whxih i wrote in the essay but different williams, will an examiner not count it as a range of scholarship despite it being from different people?

I believe that if your examples are well explained and are done for different areas for the answer (was it something like revenge being fair, it was a while ago so excuse me if that wasn't the exact question). If you used say the Sun God's revenge on Odysseus' men wasn't fair as they were starving for weeks and they had no other option but to eat the cattle, but Odysseus revenge on the Suitors was justified as they abused the rules of xenia. So as long as you used the examples for different points in your essay I'm sure it would be fine. As for the scholars, I always try to have different pople as well and I think if you said, for example, John Williams and Mary Williams, and say they're different I'm sure it'll be fine but if you just said Williams for both, I think they would mean that to be the same person, not separate.

Reply 57

Jc0506

1

Original post

by Liz079

Aeneid 20- father-son: Mezentius and Lausus, Pallas and Evander, Aeneas Anchises and Ascanius
mother-son so Aeneas and Venus
then siblings so Juturna and Turnus and Anna and Dido

Anna dido great pull so much there especially when anna says she wouldve killed herself with dido, great great pull

Reply 58

Jc0506

1

Original post

by maebisset

about aeneas being dull and dutiful how did u structure it and what context and critics also which passages did u think was more dramatic

I did two paragraphs for each, so two about dutiful two about dull, i disagreed in intro outlining what duties he has like family city gods people, then adressed dull meaning he is predictable, boring, or has shallow characterisation, said while aeneas is somewhat dutiful to family, he fails in his other ones and he is obviously not dull

Para one was he is somehqt dutiful to family, carries anchises, leaves carthage despite loving dido for ascanius, ascanius is clearly well protected in itsly and not frontline, but he forgets creusa, pallas adopted son dies, has to be reminded three times to take his family from troy rather then stay and die so he still does falter in his duty so isnt always used some williams scholarship which he said Aeneas has ab bitter sense of responsibility to his duty

Next was duty to fate and gods, he fails massively, he does take penates and household gods but he ignores mercury first time round in carthage, is rude to venus in book 1, human sacrifice barbaric not pleasing to the gods, overall he is not a good example of a pious and religious person

Then on dull i disagreed as he is unpredictable almost unheroic but it makes him an interesting character as he is complex, his poor leadership leads to pallas death, taunts lausus ans mezentius, kills prisoners, dido kills herself due to him, jenykns calls aeneas a red blooded homeric hero, as he doesnt only do good things and is ambiguous

Finally not dull due to virgils linking him to augustus and the critique of both, harvard school etc spoke about anchises’ spare the beaten but aeneas kills turnus, and leaving theough gate of ivory shows aeneas and romes future fate prehaps isnt so great, makes aeneas more interesting by comparison

Sorry i cant spell on phones

Reply 59

Jc0506

1

Original post

by feofewo

like wtf is that Question. also the 20 marker for the Odyssey was horrible. i didnt know what to do.

I liked it, can speak about how revenge leads to od being less desperate for kleos as he is humbled, but also like the social contezt, xenia is important or you migjt end up like suitors, same with the slaves dont act above you statiom or even the woman might be killed, also revenge showed power of the gods Poseidon on phaecians and od as well as zeus on ods men

OCR A Level Classical Civilisation Paper 1 (H408/11) - 13th May 2025 [Exam Chat]

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