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MC
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#81
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#81
(Original post by vienna95)
Do you believe foxes would never kill for any other reason than to survive?
I don't think foxes kill for the sake of killing, it's all about survival. Basic Darwinism.

(Original post by vienna95)
So, some foxes are vegan and have a barley rich diet because they believe killing a chicken is inhumane?
They could be vegetarian foxes as well you know, but yes.
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MC
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#82
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#82
(Original post by vienna95)
I personally cant think of another right now, but I believe that is one of many distinctions between man and fox.
Then there is no need for humans to fox hunt as they can survive without it.
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Vienna
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
I don't think foxes kill for the sake of killing, it's all about survival. Basic Darwinism.
Do you believe rearing cattle and slaughtering them for meat is humane?
So a fox, even if his food source was plentiful, would never conceive of hunting for recreation?

They could be vegetarian foxes as well you know
Because they took a moral decision that it would be inhumane to kill a chicken?
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Vienna
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
Then there is no need for humans to fox hunt as they can survive without it.
But there are no distinctions between man and fox?
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Tyler Durden
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#85
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#85
(Original post by vienna95)

Because they took a moral decision that it would be inhumane to kill a chicken?
This isn't so much a reply to your facetious question as a point which amused me. Funnily enough you use the word "inhumane." I take it can see the irony. (Inhumane.) The distinction between man and beast is in the abstract concept of "humanity". Animals cannot be expected to take responsibility for their actions. A lion which kills and eats a zebra is doing so due to evolutionary drive. However, when we as human beings torment a fox for hours and then allow it to be ripped apart we are acting inhumanely. And as human beings we should avoid inhumane actions at all cost.
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Vienna
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#86
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#86
(Original post by englishstudent)
This isn't so much a reply to your facetious question as a point which amused me. Funnily enough you use the word "inhumane." I take it can see the irony. (Inhumane.) The distinction between man and beast is in the abstract concept of "humanity". Animals cannot be expected to take responsibility for their actions. A lion which kills and eats a zebra is doing so due to evolutionary drive. However, when we as human beings torment a fox for hours and then allow it to be ripped apart we are acting inhumanely. And as human beings we should avoid inhumane actions at all cost.
Indeed, does Mad Caddie agree that such a distinction exists?
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Tyler Durden
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#87
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#87
(Original post by vienna95)
Indeed, does Mad Caddie agree that such a distinction exists?
Dunno, ask him.

My point was though that fox hunting is displaying inhumanity. I was wondering if you agreed?
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Howard
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Mad Caddie)
Can you name another animal that kills for the fun of it?
My cat? Domestic cats are psychopathic butchers; mine's always torturing and killing other small animals (mainly lizards). Never eats them; just leaves body parts all over the house.
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Jamie
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Howard)
My cat? Domestic cats are psychopathic butchers; mine's always torturing and killing other small animals (mainly lizards). Never eats them; just leaves body parts all over the house.
that what happens when the hunting instinct doesn' quite tally with desire to eat prey. I get a sneaking suspicion that whiskers tastes a bit nicer than mouse.
A cunning pet food company ploy perhaps...
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Howard
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#90
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#90
(Original post by foolfarian)
that what happens when the hunting instinct doesn' quite tally with desire to eat prey. I get a sneaking suspicion that whiskers tastes a bit nicer than mouse.
A cunning pet food company ploy perhaps...
Quite true. If mouse tastes so good then why don't I ever see mouse flavoured cat food on the pet food shelves? It's always chicken or tuna, never mouse. :confused:
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Jamie
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#91
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#91
(Original post by vienna95)
Do you believe rearing cattle and slaughtering them for meat is humane?
So a fox, even if his food source was plentiful, would never conceive of hunting for recreation?


Because they took a moral decision that it would be inhumane to kill a chicken?
A fox might kill without eating - thus is the action of the primal hunting instinct. In the same way a well nourished cat will still try to hunt mice.
But theres a difference between instinct, and recreation.
we do the oddest things for recreation which have little to do with our instincts. After all, the domestication of horses is not long enough in the past to concievably think we have any 'instinct' to hunt on horseback
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Jamie
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Howard)
Quite true. If mouse tastes so good then why don't I ever see mouse flavoured cat food on the pet food shelves? It's always chicken or tuna, never mouse. :confused:
thats because the food isn't flavoured, it actually IS chicken or tuna. All the scraggy bits they couldn't sell to humans, or that went past its best before date.
never did understand why the add things like 'peas' to the food mix (more a dog food thing than cat).
i mean since when do true carnivores eat veges?
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Howard
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#93
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#93
(Original post by foolfarian)
thats because the food isn't flavoured, it actually IS chicken or tuna. All the scraggy bits they couldn't sell to humans, or that went past its best before date.
never did understand why the add things like 'peas' to the food mix (more a dog food thing than cat).
i mean since when do true carnivores eat veges?
Then why not make cat food from real mice?
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Jamie
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#94
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#94
(Original post by vienna95)
Do you believe foxes would never kill for any other reason than to survive?



So, some foxes are vegan and have a barley rich diet because they believe killing a chicken is inhumane?
I don't get it, are you in all honestly suggesting that foxes kill for reasons other than instinct and food? That a well fed fox will leave its den and go hunt something for fun?

Do bear in mind that only 2 animals are known to kill or hunt for absolute pleasure
humans, and chimpanzees
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Jamie
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#95
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#95
(Original post by Howard)
Then why not make cat food from real mice?
hmmm. cos they taste like cack. and i suppose the cost of breeding and...rendering mice would be more than the value of their meat.
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Vienna
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#96
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#96
(Original post by foolfarian)
I don't get it, are you in all honestly suggesting that foxes kill for reasons other than instinct and food? That a well fed fox will leave its den and go hunt something for fun?
No, im just contributing to this farce where Mad Caddie is talking about barley eating vegan foxes who dont hunt because they think its inhumane! Everyone else up until now recognises that a distinction can be drawn between fox and man and as such the nonsensical argument that yawn and Mad Caddie brought against my original statement should be long buried.
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jamieuk20
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#97
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#97
(Original post by Simba)
You get pleasure from killing poor, defenseless animals? That sickens me.

My three cats kill mice every day yet they don't do it out of a need for food, because I feed them well. They do it because they know they can and it gives them pleasure. So do my cats sicken you?
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Tyler Durden
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#98
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#98
(Original post by jamieuk20)
My three cats kill mice every day yet they don't do it out of a need for food, because I feed them well. They do it because they know they can and it gives them pleasure. So do my cats sicken you?
Cats are not human. They do not have the faculty to determine right from wrong. They cannot therefore be held responsible for their actions.
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jamieuk20
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#99
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#99
(Original post by englishstudent)
Cats are not human. They do not have the faculty to determine right from wrong. They cannot therefore be held responsible for their actions.
Really? Mine have the faculty to know that urinating in the house is wrong.
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Howard
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#100
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#100
(Original post by jamieuk20)
Really? Mine have the faculty to know that urinating in the house is wrong.
That's probably untrue. They don't know it's wrong; only that they'll likely receive a boot up the ass if they do so. They probably associate pissing on the carpet with some kind of punishment without being morally cognizant that it is "wrong" per se.
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