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    (Original post by Howard)
    That's probably untrue. They don't know it's wrong; only that they'll likely receive a boot up the ass if they do so. They probably associate pissing on the carpet with some kind of punishment without being morally cognizant that it is "wrong" per se.
    All the same, cats have, since the earliest times, been viewed as very intelligent creatures. They were highly thought of in Egypt around 5000 years ago when entire colonies would apparently function as a form of pest control (ring any bells?) and prized as domestic pets in addition.

    I can demonstrate that cats have intellect and subsequently if they have intellect then they must know the difference between right and wrong. When one of my cats was a kitten he would eat from his dish, but due to our laminate flooring in the kitchen the dish would slide all over the place, frustrating him. ("wrong") He eventually learnt to 'trap' the dish underneath his front paws, ("right") and has eaten successfully in peace ever since.

    If he is therefore capable of devising a solution to the above problem, I do not understand how he could not tell the simple difference between killing for luxury and necessity.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    Do you believe rearing cattle and slaughtering them for meat is humane?
    So a fox, even if his food source was plentiful, would never conceive of hunting for recreation?
    Yes, rearing cattle to slaughter is inhumane. I don't think a fox hunts for recreation, and there is nothing to suggest otherwise.
    (Original post by vienna95)
    Because they took a moral decision that it would be inhumane to kill a chicken?
    Precisely.

    (Original post by vienna95)
    But there are no distinctions between man and fox?
    What distinctions do you draw?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    My cat? Domestic cats are psychopathic butchers; mine's always torturing and killing other small animals (mainly lizards). Never eats them; just leaves body parts all over the house.
    What do you do with the dead lizard? Do you cook it? Apparently it tastes like chicken.
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    (Original post by jamieuk20)
    All the same, cats have, since the earliest times, been viewed as very intelligent creatures. They were highly thought of in Egypt around 5000 years ago when entire colonies would apparently function as a form of pest control (ring any bells?) and prized as domestic pets in addition.

    I can demonstrate that cats have intellect and subsequently if they have intellect then they must know the difference between right and wrong. When one of my cats was a kitten he would eat from his dish, but due to our laminate flooring in the kitchen the dish would slide all over the place, frustrating him. ("wrong") He eventually learnt to 'trap' the dish underneath his front paws, ("right") and has eaten successfully in peace ever since.

    If he is therefore capable of devising a solution to the above problem, I do not understand how he could not tell the simple difference between killing for luxury and necessity.
    Well, maybe. Unfortunately we don't know what goes through his mind so whether his ability to stop his dish moving just tells us that he can find a solution to a simple problem or is indicative of having moral intelligence we don't know.

    Rats can be trained to perform simple things like this. Hit the red button and he gets a peanut; is he morally intellectual?
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    Yes, rearing cattle to slaughter is inhumane.
    Why, we need food to survive, just like the fox.

    What distinctions do you draw?
    I agree with one that englishstudent provides,
    "Cats are not human. They do not have the faculty to determine right from wrong. They cannot therefore be held responsible for their actions."
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    What do you do with the dead lizard? Do you cook it? Apparently it tastes like chicken.
    Funny how everything tastes a bit like chicken isn't it? I tend to find the lizard's heads, tails, and cadavers strewn in different areas but I've never thought of collecting them up and frying them.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    Why, we need food to survive, just like the fox.
    Humans can survive without meat. Take me as an example.


    (Original post by vienna95)
    "Cats are not human. They do not have the faculty to determine right from wrong. They cannot therefore be held responsible for their actions."
    Yes, which leads me back to my point that fox hunting is inhumane and animals such as cats hunt for food, not for recreation. Humans which hunt foxes are inhumane.
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    Yes, rearing cattle to slaughter is inhumane. I don't think a fox hunts for recreation, and there is nothing to suggest otherwise.
    Foxes tend to kill every hen in the coop if they manage to get in. In some cases where they can get below the coop they have been known to pull the legs off the chikens.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Funny how everything tastes a bit like chicken isn't it? I tend to find the lizard's heads, tails, and cadavers strewn in different areas but I've never thought of collecting them up and frying them.
    Yes, tis funny indeed. What do you do with them out of interest. Do you feed the dead lizard back to the living lizards?
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    Humans can survive without meat. Take me as an example.
    So Humans are not a carnivorous species anymore?

    Yes, which leads me back
    Yes, you agree with this distinction?
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    Yes, tis funny indeed. What do you do with them out of interest. Do you feed the dead lizard back to the living lizards?
    No, I just put them in the trash bag.
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    Yes, which leads me back to my point that fox hunting is inhumane and animals such as cats hunt for food, not for recreation. Humans which hunt foxes are inhumane.
    Cats do hunt for recreation. My cat tends to catch voles, bring them back alive to the house, then lies on it's back hurling this vole into the air and catching it again with it's claws. Invariably she then does not eat the vole. How is that hunting for food?
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    Humans can survive without meat. Take me as an example.
    I believe in freedom of speech and options. I believe that I am entitled to eating either meat or vegetables. Denying me meat is a restriction. The logic could not be simpler.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    So Humans are not a carnivorous species anymore?
    I never said that. I said humans can survive without meat.

    Out of interest, with your stance on people breaking the law, will you condone fox hunting once it becomes illegal tomorrow? What is your view of those that will continue to hunt?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    No, I just put them in the trash bag.
    That's no fun. Maybe pop one in your mouth to see how it tastes next time?
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    (Original post by jamieuk20)
    I believe in freedom of speech and options. I believe that I am entitled to eating either meat or vegetables. Denying me meat is a restriction. The logic could not be simpler.
    You are entitled to freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean I have to accept what you do as humane.
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    (Original post by Golden Maverick)
    Cats do hunt for recreation. My cat tends to catch voles, bring them back alive to the house, then lies on it's back hurling this vole into the air and catching it again with it's claws. Invariably she then does not eat the vole. How is that hunting for food?
    This cat of yours plays with the voles, it does not kill them? I'm quite amazed she has the ability to play catch with the voles.
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    This cat of yours plays with the voles, it does not kill them? I'm quite amazed she has the ability to play catch with the voles.
    No, kills them in the end, and brings them in to show us. She does play catch with the vole, which is pretty impressive, although unfortunately for the vole there is no ball as such.
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    You are entitled to freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean I have to accept what you do as humane.
    I didn't think it was particularly humane of Mugabe to forcibly seize the land of white farmers in Zimbabwe and rape their wives, but I accepted it.
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    (Original post by jamieuk20)
    I didn't think it was particularly humane of Mugabe to forcibly seize the land of white farmers in Zimbabwe and rape their wives, but I accepted it.
    And tell me, why is that relevant?
 
 
 
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