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Maths question differentiation

Hi, please could I have help with part I, I’m not sure where I’ve gone wrong?
Question: https://ibb.co/vv4NPF5z
Thanks!

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Reply 1

When differentiating you forgot to differentiate what was inside the ln (implicit) I would also divide everything by cosx to make the diff easier

Reply 2

Original post
by HDjsvuhsfh
When differentiating you forgot to differentiate what was inside the ln (implicit) I would also divide everything by cosx to make the diff easier
Thank you so much it works now, sorry please could you also clarify what you mean when you divide everything by cos x, is it everything in the ln function?

Reply 3

Original post
by anonymous56754
Hi, please could I have help with part I, I’m not sure where I’ve gone wrong?
Question: https://ibb.co/vv4NPF5z
Thanks!

Personally, I would first combine the natural logarithms and then split the numerator.

So you’d get y=ln((1+sinx/cosx)= ln(1/cosx + sinx/cosx) = ln(secx + tanx)

And from there’s it’s quite easy to differentiate until you get secx = 1/cosx

Maybe not the best method but easy enough (especially if you’re comfortable with the integration of secx…)

Also, it’s worth noting that your method would’ve been correct but you can’t differentiate ln(cosx/1+sinx) via the chain rule without multiplying by the derivative of the inside (so you’d need the quotient rule on top and then it’s just a lot of nasty algebra…)

Reply 4

Original post
by anonymous56754
Hi, please could I have help with part I, I’m not sure where I’ve gone wrong?
Question: https://ibb.co/vv4NPF5z
Thanks!

The easiest approach is not to combine the ln terms

dy/dx = cos x/(1 + sin x) + sin x/cos x

then adding gives

dy/dx =(cos^2 x + sin x + sin^2 x)/ (1 + sin x) cos x and we know cos^2 x + sin^2 x = 1

Hence dy/dx = (1 + sin x)/(1 + sin x) cos x = 1/ cos x

Reply 5

Original post
by sdfj
Personally, I would first combine the natural logarithms and then split the numerator.
So you’d get y=ln((1+sinx/cosx)= ln(1/cosx + sinx/cosx) = ln(secx + tanx)
And from there’s it’s quite easy to differentiate until you get secx = 1/cosx
Maybe not the best method but easy enough (especially if you’re comfortable with the integration of secx…)
Also, it’s worth noting that your method would’ve been correct but you can’t differentiate ln(cosx/1+sinx) via the chain rule without multiplying by the derivative of the inside (so you’d need the quotient rule on top and then it’s just a lot of nasty algebra…)

It's easier not to combine the ln terms see my post

Reply 6

Original post
by HDjsvuhsfh
When differentiating you forgot to differentiate what was inside the ln (implicit) I would also divide everything by cosx to make the diff easier

Not needed to do any division - see my post

Reply 7

Original post
by anonymous56754
Thank you so much it works now, sorry please could you also clarify what you mean when you divide everything by cos x, is it everything in the ln function?

Yeah that is what I meant as it is easy to diff sec x and tan x but what other people are telling you also works I think

Reply 8

Original post
by Muttley79
The easiest approach is not to combine the ln terms
dy/dx = cos x/(1 + sin x) + sin x/cos x
then adding gives
dy/dx =(cos^2 x + sin x + sin^2 x)/ (1 + sin x) cos x and we know cos^2 x + sin^2 x = 1
Hence dy/dx = (1 + sin x)/(1 + sin x) cos x = 1/ cos x


I’d prefer combining the logarithms and using standard results even if it isn’t the ‘easiest approach.’ Multiple methods always work…

Reply 9

Original post
by Muttley79
The easiest approach is not to combine the ln terms
dy/dx = cos x/(1 + sin x) + sin x/cos x
then adding gives
dy/dx =(cos^2 x + sin x + sin^2 x)/ (1 + sin x) cos x and we know cos^2 x + sin^2 x = 1
Hence dy/dx = (1 + sin x)/(1 + sin x) cos x = 1/ cos x
Sorry, please could you be able to explain how you got the first line?
dy/dx = cos x/(1 + sin x) + sin x/cos x

Reply 10

Original post
by anonymous56754
Sorry, please could you be able to explain how you got the first line?
dy/dx = cos x/(1 + sin x) + sin x/cos x

Using the chain rule, the derivative of ln(f(x)) is f'(x)/f(x), so just apply that directly to the question without doing any ln manipulation.
(edited 10 months ago)

Reply 11

Original post
by Muttley79
No, because it's explaining further what others have already done but a smpler approach.
Your method includes more places to go wrong so when you are under time pressure in an exam it wouldn't be an efficient approach.

Fair enough - it’s it a show-that though? Harder to go wrong really either method…

Reply 12

Original post
by sdfj
Fair enough - it’s it a show-that though? Harder to go wrong really either method…

? It's a 'show that' so clear steps needed.

I always encourage students to look for efficient solutions - that's a feature of A* students.

Reply 13

Original post
by Muttley79
? It's a 'show that' so clear steps needed.
I always encourage students to look for efficient solutions - that's a feature of A* students.

'No, because it's explaining further what others have already done but a smpler approach.
Your method includes more places to go wrong so when you are under time pressure in an exam it wouldn't be an efficient approach.'

The above is what you said before you deleted it - I was saying (especially given that the question was a 'show that') that either method would 'efficiently' and quite clearly lead to the same answer. Takes no more than a couple of lines...

y=ln(1+sinx)-ln(cosx)=ln((1+sinx)/cosx)=ln(secx+sinx/cosx)
Now using standard results (that are given in the formula sheet if not already memorised):
dy/dx=(sec(x)tan(x)+sec^2(x))/(sec(x)+tan(x))=sec(x)((sec(x)+tan(x))/sec(x)+tan(x))=sec(x)=1/cos(x)

Perfectly efficient, 'A* student style' and fast enough in my opinion

Reply 14

Original post
by sdfj
'No, because it's explaining further what others have already done but a smpler approach.
Your method includes more places to go wrong so when you are under time pressure in an exam it wouldn't be an efficient approach.'
The above is what you said before you deleted it - I was saying (especially given that the question was a 'show that') that either method would 'efficiently' and quite clearly lead to the same answer. Takes no more than a couple of lines...
y=ln(1+sinx)-ln(cosx)=ln((1+sinx)/cosx)=ln(secx+sinx/cosx)
Now using standard results (that are given in the formula sheet if not already memorised):
dy/dx=(sec(x)tan(x)+sec^2(x))/(sec(x)+tan(x))=sec(x)((sec(x)+tan(x))/sec(x)+tan(x))=sec(x)=1/cos(x)
Perfectly efficient, 'A* student style' and fast enough in my opinion

yes completely agreed, this method is a lot stronger because this user is streamlining the derivative, allowing more understanding and stronger method. the user "Mutley78"'s method seems to be speed-based, but under exam conditions... mistakes happen, especially with so many terms... but that's just my take on things...

Reply 15

Original post
by anonymous56754
Hi, please could I have help with part I, I’m not sure where I’ve gone wrong?
Question: https://ibb.co/vv4NPF5z
Thanks!

where did u get this question from?

Reply 16

Original post
by sehajss
where did u get this question from?

It’s a booklet of some integration questions my teacher gave, I’ve tried attaching a file but it’s not working. If you would like a copy I can screenshot the questions and send it.

Reply 17

Original post
by sdfj
'No, because it's explaining further what others have already done but a smpler approach.
Your method includes more places to go wrong so when you are under time pressure in an exam it wouldn't be an efficient approach.'
The above is what you said before you deleted it - I was saying (especially given that the question was a 'show that') that either method would 'efficiently' and quite clearly lead to the same answer. Takes no more than a couple of lines...
y=ln(1+sinx)-ln(cosx)=ln((1+sinx)/cosx)=ln(secx+sinx/cosx)
Now using standard results (that are given in the formula sheet if not already memorised):
dy/dx=(sec(x)tan(x)+sec^2(x))/(sec(x)+tan(x))=sec(x)((sec(x)+tan(x))/sec(x)+tan(x))=sec(x)=1/cos(x)
Perfectly efficient, 'A* student style' and fast enough in my opinion

Look at how complex that is compared to mine - it's not the approach an A* student would adopt.

They'd realise combining ln terms made the differentiation far more complex.

Maths is about elegant solutions ..

Reply 18

Original post
by anonymous56754
It’s a booklet of some integration questions my teacher gave, I’ve tried attaching a file but it’s not working. If you would like a copy I can screenshot the questions and send it.

nah thats okay i just wanna know what exam board

Reply 19

Original post
by sehajss
nah thats okay i just wanna know what exam board

ocr

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