St Andrews or UCL for psychology conversion
Hey guys!
Please can someone help me out. I am popping this here hoping that some St Andrews folks may be able to help me out
I am lucky enough to have offers from both St Andrews and Psychology to study the MSc Psychology conversion programmes.Which one is better in your opinion and why? I am really struggling!
Some thoughts I have:-
UCL
+ Based in London which means I wouldn't have to move city
+ Strong global reputation and branding, with psychology ranking 6th worldwide at UCL
+ May be offered a 10,000 GBP scholarship (pending at the moment)
+ Psychology department has good industrial links with hospitals and psychological institutions such as Anna Freud Institute
+ Course is focused on clinical output and academia, which prepares you for the job as a psychologist as much as the theorybehind it
+ High calibre of students, a lot of which tend to come from scientific backgrounds, peripheral to psychology such as neurologyand biology
+ UCL has a DClinpsych doctorate and studying there would prepare me to understand the university and develop relationshipsshould I decide to pursue further study
+ Multiple NHS roles within psychology use UCL as a training campus for roles such as Psychological Wellbeing practitioner etc
+ Extremely international university and city creating a diverse experience
- Based in London also means this is relatively expensive, there are a lot of distractions, and it's not a new space and place to getrespite and focus on work
- Competition within cohort if likely to be very high. This can bring benefits to motivate, but also it can be exhausting and may bemore difficult to achieve higher grades
- Good branding and reputation does not always equate to a good experience and satisfaction with course. UCL has incredibly lowfeedback from students, many of which state it can be isolating to study there due to the nature of London
- Whilst I could stay at my home, this also means I wouldn't benefit from the 'student experience'. It may feel like going to work,commuting for morning lectures within rush hour - i.e. spending more time moving then in lectures
- Large classes mean that lecturer/student ratio is quite low, which could result in making it difficult/more rigid and form to meetwith lecturers
St Andrews
+ Have been offered a full scholarship covering tuition and accommodation
+ Offered a studio apartment within St Andrews itself. It is notoriously hard to get accommodation here
+ Strong reputation, ranking 1st / 2nd in UK overall in many national league tables
+ Has one of the the best psychology departments in the UK
+ Extremely small cohorts, between 10-15 people, creating an intimate environment with your lecturers (albeit you do studymodules with final year psychology students, there are specific lecture breakouts for conversion students for extra support)
+ Small university makes it easier to create genuine connections and feel like you belong to a wider community
+ Less distractions with an emphasis on academic rigour, making it easier to concentrate and get work done
+ Term date breaks (i.e. in January getting 4-5 weeks off) mean that there are long vacation periods to rest, relax and catch-upwith work
- Expensive town for what it is. St Andrews is incredibly small and due to the university demand and lack of supply, its quite apricey place to live
- Around 20% of the university is American and whilst this isn't a negative in itself, I wonder if this will feel more like studyingabroad rather than within the UK. In many ways St Andrews feels like a Harry Potter experience for Americans wanting a differentand cheaper experience comparative to US Ivy League universities
- Lack of diversity in St Andrews resulting in a lot of similar lived experiences, mindsets and attitudes
- Isolated location means it is difficult to get to from any major city, and particularly stressful to move to from London. Visiting homewould be a flight or a long train ride.
- Weather is quite dreadful in the region. Often it rains and it is windy. This can have an impact on your mood and mindset andalso makes it difficult to live a more outdoor active lifestyle
- Not a lot of activities/things to do. Can feel 'trapped in', compared to places where a lot more is happening
- No medical school / links with hospitals (that I know of)
Thanks for reading all of this! Also if I do stay in London I will save on accommodation costs as I can stay at home so financially both unis (if I get scholarship at UCL) will cost the same
Appreciate anyone that helps! Thank you so much!
Please can someone help me out. I am popping this here hoping that some St Andrews folks may be able to help me out
I am lucky enough to have offers from both St Andrews and Psychology to study the MSc Psychology conversion programmes.Which one is better in your opinion and why? I am really struggling!
Some thoughts I have:-
UCL
+ Based in London which means I wouldn't have to move city
+ Strong global reputation and branding, with psychology ranking 6th worldwide at UCL
+ May be offered a 10,000 GBP scholarship (pending at the moment)
+ Psychology department has good industrial links with hospitals and psychological institutions such as Anna Freud Institute
+ Course is focused on clinical output and academia, which prepares you for the job as a psychologist as much as the theorybehind it
+ High calibre of students, a lot of which tend to come from scientific backgrounds, peripheral to psychology such as neurologyand biology
+ UCL has a DClinpsych doctorate and studying there would prepare me to understand the university and develop relationshipsshould I decide to pursue further study
+ Multiple NHS roles within psychology use UCL as a training campus for roles such as Psychological Wellbeing practitioner etc
+ Extremely international university and city creating a diverse experience
- Based in London also means this is relatively expensive, there are a lot of distractions, and it's not a new space and place to getrespite and focus on work
- Competition within cohort if likely to be very high. This can bring benefits to motivate, but also it can be exhausting and may bemore difficult to achieve higher grades
- Good branding and reputation does not always equate to a good experience and satisfaction with course. UCL has incredibly lowfeedback from students, many of which state it can be isolating to study there due to the nature of London
- Whilst I could stay at my home, this also means I wouldn't benefit from the 'student experience'. It may feel like going to work,commuting for morning lectures within rush hour - i.e. spending more time moving then in lectures
- Large classes mean that lecturer/student ratio is quite low, which could result in making it difficult/more rigid and form to meetwith lecturers
St Andrews
+ Have been offered a full scholarship covering tuition and accommodation
+ Offered a studio apartment within St Andrews itself. It is notoriously hard to get accommodation here
+ Strong reputation, ranking 1st / 2nd in UK overall in many national league tables
+ Has one of the the best psychology departments in the UK
+ Extremely small cohorts, between 10-15 people, creating an intimate environment with your lecturers (albeit you do studymodules with final year psychology students, there are specific lecture breakouts for conversion students for extra support)
+ Small university makes it easier to create genuine connections and feel like you belong to a wider community
+ Less distractions with an emphasis on academic rigour, making it easier to concentrate and get work done
+ Term date breaks (i.e. in January getting 4-5 weeks off) mean that there are long vacation periods to rest, relax and catch-upwith work
- Expensive town for what it is. St Andrews is incredibly small and due to the university demand and lack of supply, its quite apricey place to live
- Around 20% of the university is American and whilst this isn't a negative in itself, I wonder if this will feel more like studyingabroad rather than within the UK. In many ways St Andrews feels like a Harry Potter experience for Americans wanting a differentand cheaper experience comparative to US Ivy League universities
- Lack of diversity in St Andrews resulting in a lot of similar lived experiences, mindsets and attitudes
- Isolated location means it is difficult to get to from any major city, and particularly stressful to move to from London. Visiting homewould be a flight or a long train ride.
- Weather is quite dreadful in the region. Often it rains and it is windy. This can have an impact on your mood and mindset andalso makes it difficult to live a more outdoor active lifestyle
- Not a lot of activities/things to do. Can feel 'trapped in', compared to places where a lot more is happening
- No medical school / links with hospitals (that I know of)
Thanks for reading all of this! Also if I do stay in London I will save on accommodation costs as I can stay at home so financially both unis (if I get scholarship at UCL) will cost the same
Appreciate anyone that helps! Thank you so much!
(edited 1 month ago)
Reply 1
I am a current undergrad student at St Andrews and will give my reaction to some of your thoughts where I feel I can.
Comparing the reputations of UCL and St Andrews is very tough as St Andrews' reputation is incredibly varied depending on who you ask. UCL's reputation is far more consistent. It is a top UK Russell Group university which is highly regarded both nationally and internationally at both undergrad and postgrad levels. On the other hand, St Andrews is a lesser known university, perhaps, but those who do know it tend to consider it one of the best universities in the UK. However, its international prestige is not as great as that of UCL, bar maybe in the US, and its subject strengths (especially at postgrad level) vary. In UCL, you will find a university which is always held in high regard whereas with St Andrews, some believe it to be the best university in the UK whereas others either haven't heard of it or don't really understand it as a university given its uniqueness: small, undergrad focused, isolated, non-Russell Group.
This is another thing to consider, St Andrews is 80% undergrad and only 20% post-grad. However, there are lots of postgrad only spaces and halls around the university if you want to find other postgrads.
In terms of diversity in St Andrews, it really depends on what metrics you are using. Ethnic, gender, sexual orientation, economic, religious, nationality... Whilst St Andrews does have a reputation for being very white and full of the privately educated, this is not the full picture. It is true that St Andrews does have one of the highest private school populations compared with other universities, the number of students who went to a private school is still in the minority. In terms of racial diversity, St Andrews is neither diverse, nor undiverse if that makes sense. There are not so few BAME students that seeing anyone who isn't white is unusual (for want of a better term) but at the same time, St Andrews is still predominantly white. However, I do believe the university is trying to address this and ethnic diversity is increasing. Based purely by feel, I would say that St Andrews' BAME population probably sits between 20-30% of the total population. I should mention that I am white and therefore my observations may not paint the full picture. However, St Andrews, the town, is very white which reflects Scotland's 96% white population; but half of the town is the university so that is not too problematic. Nevertheless, I do believe St Andrews to have a diverse student body with many students coming from a variety of economic backgrounds, cultures, countries and ethnicities. Also worth mentioning is that St Andrews has a roughly 60:40 Female to Male split and a thriving LGBTQ+ community. In my opinion, I believe St Andrews to be diverse by most metrics, however "diverse" is a subjective word. Whilst the stereotype that there are lots of Americans and privileged students; this is not the whole student body and far from it. I also want to point at that the Americans themselves are diverse and come from very different states, racial groups, backgrounds...
This is an obvious point but you would also find your crowd at St Andrews. If diversity is something you care about greatly, then you would quickly find the people who share your outlook. If you want to avoid a specific group of people, very dooable.
Your point about isolation is an interesting one. Yes, St Andrews is a costal town of 20,000 which is different from many other universities which tend to be in cities. However, I wouldn't call it isolated. There is a bus station with links to Dundee (25 mins away,) Edinburgh (2 hours away) or Glasgow (2 and a half hours away.) The bus which runs to Dundee goes every 8 minutes and is 10 minutes away from Leuchars train station which has a hourly direct train to Kings Cross which takes just under 5 hours and a train to Edinburgh which takes 50 mins. I would slightly nuance your thought on isolation. Yes St Andrews is a long way from London. It would take you 5-6 hours by train or 3/4 hours by plane depending on whether you take a taxi to Edinburgh airport or a bus/train. However, traveling to and from St Andrews is not difficult. Both the bus station and Leuchars train station are well connected and have frequent services.
I also think your point about St Andrews feeling like a study abroad is an interesting one. Yes it is very international with a heavy north American influence and yes, you are in Scotland and not England. However, you are still in the UK and the student population is still very English and Scottish. The town itself feels Scottish and not English, but that is not a huge difference. Everyone still speaks English and there is still a Greggs, a Costa and a Holland and Barrett... I guess the study abroad feeling depends greatly on what you are used to. For me personally, St Andrews quasi-study abroad feeling was a pull rather than a push factor as I wanted to be as far away from what I knew as possible within the limits of the UK. However, I would understand why this may be a negative for some.
I found this is it helps: https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/about/edi-progress-reports/student-equality-diversity-and-inclusion-report-2019/population-by-ethnicity/
Comparing the reputations of UCL and St Andrews is very tough as St Andrews' reputation is incredibly varied depending on who you ask. UCL's reputation is far more consistent. It is a top UK Russell Group university which is highly regarded both nationally and internationally at both undergrad and postgrad levels. On the other hand, St Andrews is a lesser known university, perhaps, but those who do know it tend to consider it one of the best universities in the UK. However, its international prestige is not as great as that of UCL, bar maybe in the US, and its subject strengths (especially at postgrad level) vary. In UCL, you will find a university which is always held in high regard whereas with St Andrews, some believe it to be the best university in the UK whereas others either haven't heard of it or don't really understand it as a university given its uniqueness: small, undergrad focused, isolated, non-Russell Group.
This is another thing to consider, St Andrews is 80% undergrad and only 20% post-grad. However, there are lots of postgrad only spaces and halls around the university if you want to find other postgrads.
In terms of diversity in St Andrews, it really depends on what metrics you are using. Ethnic, gender, sexual orientation, economic, religious, nationality... Whilst St Andrews does have a reputation for being very white and full of the privately educated, this is not the full picture. It is true that St Andrews does have one of the highest private school populations compared with other universities, the number of students who went to a private school is still in the minority. In terms of racial diversity, St Andrews is neither diverse, nor undiverse if that makes sense. There are not so few BAME students that seeing anyone who isn't white is unusual (for want of a better term) but at the same time, St Andrews is still predominantly white. However, I do believe the university is trying to address this and ethnic diversity is increasing. Based purely by feel, I would say that St Andrews' BAME population probably sits between 20-30% of the total population. I should mention that I am white and therefore my observations may not paint the full picture. However, St Andrews, the town, is very white which reflects Scotland's 96% white population; but half of the town is the university so that is not too problematic. Nevertheless, I do believe St Andrews to have a diverse student body with many students coming from a variety of economic backgrounds, cultures, countries and ethnicities. Also worth mentioning is that St Andrews has a roughly 60:40 Female to Male split and a thriving LGBTQ+ community. In my opinion, I believe St Andrews to be diverse by most metrics, however "diverse" is a subjective word. Whilst the stereotype that there are lots of Americans and privileged students; this is not the whole student body and far from it. I also want to point at that the Americans themselves are diverse and come from very different states, racial groups, backgrounds...
This is an obvious point but you would also find your crowd at St Andrews. If diversity is something you care about greatly, then you would quickly find the people who share your outlook. If you want to avoid a specific group of people, very dooable.
Your point about isolation is an interesting one. Yes, St Andrews is a costal town of 20,000 which is different from many other universities which tend to be in cities. However, I wouldn't call it isolated. There is a bus station with links to Dundee (25 mins away,) Edinburgh (2 hours away) or Glasgow (2 and a half hours away.) The bus which runs to Dundee goes every 8 minutes and is 10 minutes away from Leuchars train station which has a hourly direct train to Kings Cross which takes just under 5 hours and a train to Edinburgh which takes 50 mins. I would slightly nuance your thought on isolation. Yes St Andrews is a long way from London. It would take you 5-6 hours by train or 3/4 hours by plane depending on whether you take a taxi to Edinburgh airport or a bus/train. However, traveling to and from St Andrews is not difficult. Both the bus station and Leuchars train station are well connected and have frequent services.
I also think your point about St Andrews feeling like a study abroad is an interesting one. Yes it is very international with a heavy north American influence and yes, you are in Scotland and not England. However, you are still in the UK and the student population is still very English and Scottish. The town itself feels Scottish and not English, but that is not a huge difference. Everyone still speaks English and there is still a Greggs, a Costa and a Holland and Barrett... I guess the study abroad feeling depends greatly on what you are used to. For me personally, St Andrews quasi-study abroad feeling was a pull rather than a push factor as I wanted to be as far away from what I knew as possible within the limits of the UK. However, I would understand why this may be a negative for some.
I found this is it helps: https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/about/edi-progress-reports/student-equality-diversity-and-inclusion-report-2019/population-by-ethnicity/
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