The Student Room Group

Very odd experience with the BBC

I am not as young as the rest of you in here, and i make audio books. And for this reason I wanted to register as a BBC supplier. Of course, given the competition I have no illusions about getting them to buy anything. But I do have a right to register.

And here is where it became odd. In order to do so I must 1. "have an employee policy" for my one man business, meaning i must write some essay about how i treat myself?
And then 2. I must have a "diversity policy", which is also some essay that must write. I am gay, I see no reason for why people need to have certain views to contribute. The only thing that is required is honesty.

And finally, 3. I needed to register and pay a fee at some government site for some data registration thing, which I think goes to pay the intelligence agencies for monitoring the medias.

In my view, everything should could be reduced to two tick boxes: do you accept these points? But this essay writing thing about equality is madness. It should be "these are the terms, click here to accept". In the end I decided not to make the effort because my chances of getting anything sold were so minute anyway.

This registration and essay writing thing was so weird that even I, a gay left wing man, felt that it was awkward. I also think there are circumstances in which do want that other view. And it is the editors who buy? So the only thing that is required to enter the database should be honesty. Nobody can tell the BBC what to buy? Patronizing and condescending registration processes create a lot distrust in the public.

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Reply 1

Sounds normal to me tbh. If the BBC has to have a demonstrable policy for these things then it makes sense anyone working with it commercially does too and no, ticking a couple of boxes prob isn't good enough, bearing in mind the BBC will have it's own (mandatory) policy of carrying out due diligence of groups it works with. You're not approaching them as a member of the public, you're approaching them in a business capacity, so yeah you need to have your policies established and checkable. Employees get to check a box and sign a form, commercial/contractors need to take their own responsibility whether it's 100 staff or just you.

No one is asking you to write an essay, there are plenty of 'standard' policy templates to use and the BBC even recommends this one

Likewise data handling/protection etc is a legal obligation there's no getting away from, you see countless examples of big companies who employed a contractor and every time there is a data breach the bigger company is the one asked (demanded) what it did to safeguard people, so they will want to cover themselves when they work with others.

Years back my final uni project was a survey I carried out of all the UK local authorities and because of who I was contacting and my association with the uni they insisted I have a data policy. I don't get to tick a box saying 'I'm cool bro', I need to provide all participants with information on how their data will be used, shared and disposed of (It took about 10 minutes)

Reply 2

Original post
by StriderHort
Sounds normal to me tbh. If the BBC has to have a demonstrable policy for these things then it makes sense anyone working with it commercially does too and no, ticking a couple of boxes prob isn't good enough, bearing in mind the BBC will have it's own (mandatory) policy of carrying out due diligence of groups it works with. You're not approaching them as a member of the public, you're approaching them in a business capacity, so yeah you need to have your policies established and checkable. Employees get to check a box and sign a form, commercial/contractors need to take their own responsibility whether it's 100 staff or just you.
No one is asking you to write an essay, there are plenty of 'standard' policy templates to use and the BBC even recommends this one
Likewise data handling/protection etc is a legal obligation there's no getting away from, you see countless examples of big companies who employed a contractor and every time there is a data breach the bigger company is the one asked (demanded) what it did to safeguard people, so they will want to cover themselves when they work with others.
Years back my final uni project was a survey I carried out of all the UK local authorities and because of who I was contacting and my association with the uni they insisted I have a data policy. I don't get to tick a box saying 'I'm cool bro', I need to provide all participants with information on how their data will be used, shared and disposed of (It took about 10 minutes)

It is not that they have a standard that is annoying, it is the fact that by this essay thing, they attempt to alter and change the views of those who sign up. And secondly they make their own sign up process more cumbersome. Remember 1. that i am one person and must have a policy for treating coworkers, and these do not even exist! And secondly, i must write an essay on discriminating myself?
So, in my view the BBC could maintain the same standard, but not try to educate or influence the views of those who want to sign up. These must either accept them or not.

I also think that having these procedures, in the very difficult political environment that we have today, undermines their authority by making themselves the enemy for a large segment of the electorate. And this at the time when they are very needed. I already listen to BBC, and always have. But many who do need the BBC even more than myself do not listen to them, and they never will if such procedures exist. And their replacement might be Alex Jones.

Reply 3

Original post
by michaelhw
It is not that they have a standard that is annoying, it is the fact that by this essay thing, they attempt to alter and change the views of those who sign up. And secondly they make their own sign up process more cumbersome. Remember 1. that i am one person and must have a policy for treating coworkers, and these do not even exist! And secondly, i must write an essay on discriminating myself?
So, in my view the BBC could maintain the same standard, but not try to educate or influence the views of those who want to sign up. These must either accept them or not.
I also think that having these procedures, in the very difficult political environment that we have today, undermines their authority by making themselves the enemy for a large segment of the electorate. And this at the time when they are very needed. I already listen to BBC, and always have. But many who do need the BBC even more than myself do not listen to them, and they never will if such procedures exist. And their replacement might be Alex Jones.

You seen determined to make this some sort of culture wars/identity thing?

Again, no one asked you to write an essay. Rather than being asked to simply tick a box you're being asked to copy and paste a small text and sign it, what's the big difference? no one asked you to change your views on anything? you're bring asked to clarify how you do business.

And again whether it's just you or 100 you still need to have these policies, which is still 5 minutes of copy & pasting, nothing more.

Anyone who would consider the BBC an 'enemy' and refuse to watch it because it has policies covering employee rights, diversity and data protection sounds like, well, a bit of a prat really and the BBC is not going to ditch their policies to appease them. Pretty much every broadcaster will have similar requirements be it ITV, Sky or Netflix btw

Reply 4

Original post
by StriderHort
You seen determined to make this some sort of culture wars/identity thing?
Again, no one asked you to write an essay. Rather than being asked to simply tick a box you're being asked to copy and paste a small text and sign it, what's the big difference? no one asked you to change your views on anything? you're bring asked to clarify how you do business.
And again whether it's just you or 100 you still need to have these policies, which is still 5 minutes of copy & pasting, nothing more.
Anyone who would consider the BBC an 'enemy' and refuse to watch it because it has policies covering employee rights, diversity and data protection sounds like, well, a bit of a prat really and the BBC is not going to ditch their policies to appease them. Pretty much every broadcaster will have similar requirements be it ITV, Sky or Netflix btw
You seem to forget that they are now a huge segment of the electorates in many countries. It is not a minor thing, and all these voters are not expendable. What I am saying is that the terms for registering should be low, but it is the BBC editors that select what they want. It is also in their interest that that pool is wide and diverse. There are times that you actually want another view than the one you have yourself. In any event is it the case that the availability or representation of certain points of view is a threat to the BBC editors? They need to be protected from certain types of arguments? I do not presume to second guess the BBC.

Let us assume for the sake of argument that I was not gay and left wing, but in fact straight and right wing. Personally I also disliked blacks, gays and thought any woman I could get (probably not many, but still) belonged in the kitchen. But I had a ONE MAN BUSINESS, and these incel thought-crimes had never had any practical consequences?
Am I then not allowed to think certain things?

The right wing thinks they can bomb Muslims into changing religion, which is lunacy. But it is also insane to think that one can alter political persuasions by intimidation in stead of through argumentation. These things are not possible.

A few years back, this polarization problem was not as serious as it has now become.

Reply 5

Original post
by michaelhw
You seem to forget that they are now a huge segment of the electorates in many countries. It is not a minor thing, and all these voters are not expendable. What I am saying is that the terms for registering should be low, but it is the BBC editors that select what they want. It is also in their interest that that pool is wide and diverse. There are times that you actually want another view than the one you have yourself. In any event is it the case that the availability or representation of certain points of view is a threat to the BBC editors? They need to be protected from certain types of arguments? I do not presume to second guess the BBC.
Let us assume for the sake of argument that I was not gay and left wing, but in fact straight and right wing. Personally I also disliked blacks, gays and thought any woman I could get (probably not many, but still) belonged in the kitchen. But I had a ONE MAN BUSINESS, and these incel thought-crimes had never had any practical consequences?
Am I then not allowed to think certain things?
The right wing thinks they can bomb Muslims into changing religion, which is lunacy. But it is also insane to think that one can alter political persuasions by intimidation in stead of through argumentation. These things are not possible.
A few years back, this polarization problem was not as serious as it has now become.

Yeah as said, this sounds a lot more like a personal gripe with the BBC that anything to do with it's policies, but I still think there are huge holes in your logic.

I would argue such people are absolutely not a huge segment in the UK, they are a minority who realistically will never agree with the BBC, There isn't a lot of cross over with larger groups such as myself who just think the BBC is crap but don't consider it a specific enemy.

You're still not separating personal views from business ones. They don't care what your personal views are, they care about how you treat people you work with which is absolutely covered by law. As said almost all broadcasters and pretty much any body that gets public money will have people who work with therm jump through the same hoops, no getting away from it and the 'sole trader' argument doesn't cut any ice, it's one size fits all.

Reply 6

Original post
by StriderHort
Yeah as said, this sounds a lot more like a personal gripe with the BBC that anything to do with it's policies, but I still think there are huge holes in your logic.
I would argue such people are absolutely not a huge segment in the UK, they are a minority who realistically will never agree with the BBC, There isn't a lot of cross over with larger groups such as myself who just think the BBC is crap but don't consider it a specific enemy.
You're still not separating personal views from business ones. They don't care what your personal views are, they care about how you treat people you work with which is absolutely covered by law. As said almost all broadcasters and pretty much any body that gets public money will have people who work with therm jump through the same hoops, no getting away from it and the 'sole trader' argument doesn't cut any ice, it's one size fits all.

You are turning it on its head. It is these policies that do what you say, not me. Oscar Wilde once said (approximately): "A book is either well written or it is not. That is all." (notice the absence of an inclusion policy in his argument)
I mean fair enough that you chose not to do it, but copy & pasting a diversity policy seems like pretty low hanging fruit to me.

I've jumped through more obtuse hoops for larger organisations.

Reply 8

Original post
by michaelhw
You are turning it on its head. It is these policies that do what you say, not me. Oscar Wilde once said (approximately): "A book is either well written or it is not. That is all." (notice the absence of an inclusion policy in his argument)

I don't think I am. 99% of people just sign these policies because it's what you need to do to get a job. I've had to sign dozens and not one that I can recall cared what my own views on anything were, it's all about how you do business. I've already told you twice that other broadcasters and frankly most other large employers have v similar policies, so why is the BBC your only target? Even somewhere like GBNews that rants against diversity etc will have a diversity policy of their own tucked away somewhere simply for the legal protections it gives.

There's been a v good example recently at Glastonbury with Bob Vylan and the BBC, the former said something considered offensive/discriminatory during his performance but you might have noticed the BBC are getting the lions share of the blame for this with quite a few senior staff likely to lose their jobs. This public accountability and political pressure is exactly why they have these policies to defend themselves and insist that people who work with them agree to similar and indeed part of the BBCs defence here is that they did their due diligence on the performer, the just failed to implement it effectively. Legally it sounds much better to be able to claim that the performer/promoter broke their own diversity policy rather than yours which opens the possibility of more challenges.

If anything this recent incident is going to make them double down on this sort of stuff, they basically already said 'no more controversial performers'. So if so many people didn't start demanding the BBC be fined/dismantled/hanged every time a 3rd party gets in trouble, they might not feel the need to cover themselves and restrict platforms like this.

Pretty sure Wilde also had several of his works effectively refused over various controversy and a more modern outlook on issues of diversity might have prevented him rotting in prison. Creating great content doesn't translate to operating a platform and all the legislation that comes with it.

Reply 9

OP - This is all completely standard supply chain onboarding & due diligence if you want to be a supplier to large corporates whether in the public sector or private sector. You are not being required to write essays, template policies that you can adapt for your business are easily google-able.

On your third point, registering as a data controller if you meet the personal data processing criteria is a legal requirement, it's nothing to do with the BBC or funding MI5 or MI6.

Reply 10

Original post
by michaelhw
I am not as young as the rest of you in here, and i make audio books. And for this reason I wanted to register as a BBC supplier. Of course, given the competition I have no illusions about getting them to buy anything. But I do have a right to register.
And here is where it became odd. In order to do so I must 1. "have an employee policy" for my one man business, meaning i must write some essay about how i treat myself?
And then 2. I must have a "diversity policy", which is also some essay that must write. I am gay, I see no reason for why people need to have certain views to contribute. The only thing that is required is honesty.
And finally, 3. I needed to register and pay a fee at some government site for some data registration thing, which I think goes to pay the intelligence agencies for monitoring the medias.
In my view, everything should could be reduced to two tick boxes: do you accept these points? But this essay writing thing about equality is madness. It should be "these are the terms, click here to accept". In the end I decided not to make the effort because my chances of getting anything sold were so minute anyway.
This registration and essay writing thing was so weird that even I, a gay left wing man, felt that it was awkward. I also think there are circumstances in which do want that other view. And it is the editors who buy? So the only thing that is required to enter the database should be honesty. Nobody can tell the BBC what to buy? Patronizing and condescending registration processes create a lot distrust in the public.

You dont understand GDPR do you? 🤔

Reply 11

Original post
by Quady
You dont understand GDPR do you? 🤔

When a sign pops up at a website and intrudes on you with the following statement: "We respect your privacy, accept our commercial tracking or this website will not work", it tells you something. What might that be? It also tells you that some public regulation is simply for show, and does not really have any other practical function.
(edited 7 months ago)

Reply 12

Original post
by michaelhw
When a sign pops up at a website and intrudes on you with the following statement: "We respect your privacy, accept our commercial tracking or this website will not work", it tells you something. What might that be? It also tells you that some public regulation is simply for show, and does not really have any other practical function.

That's a hell of a long way to say 'Yes'

Reply 13

Original post
by michaelhw
When a sign pops up at a website and intrudes on you with the following statement: "We respect your privacy, accept our commercial tracking or this website will not work", it tells you something. What might that be? It also tells you that some public regulation is simply for show, and does not really have any other practical function.

That's not GDPR, that's separate and specific cookie registration.

It's not for show - the explanation and prompt lets you opt-in to tracking if you want to, OR just the necessary cookies for the website to function, OR having been explained how the website cookies work, you can choose not to use the website at all. That's the practical function. In the days before cookie legislation, you didn't know how websites were using your data at all.

Reply 14

Original post
by michaelhw
I am not as young as the rest of you in here, and i make audio books. And for this reason I wanted to register as a BBC supplier. Of course, given the competition I have no illusions about getting them to buy anything. But I do have a right to register.
And here is where it became odd. In order to do so I must 1. "have an employee policy" for my one man business, meaning i must write some essay about how i treat myself?
And then 2. I must have a "diversity policy", which is also some essay that must write. I am gay, I see no reason for why people need to have certain views to contribute. The only thing that is required is honesty.
And finally, 3. I needed to register and pay a fee at some government site for some data registration thing, which I think goes to pay the intelligence agencies for monitoring the medias.
In my view, everything should could be reduced to two tick boxes: do you accept these points? But this essay writing thing about equality is madness. It should be "these are the terms, click here to accept". In the end I decided not to make the effort because my chances of getting anything sold were so minute anyway.
This registration and essay writing thing was so weird that even I, a gay left wing man, felt that it was awkward. I also think there are circumstances in which do want that other view. And it is the editors who buy? So the only thing that is required to enter the database should be honesty. Nobody can tell the BBC what to buy? Patronizing and condescending registration processes create a lot distrust in the public.

"In my view, everything should could be reduced to two tick boxes: do you accept these points?"
They are not asking "do you accept and comply with the BBC's employee and diversity policies?". They are asking "as a business, what are your employee and diversity policies?"
If you don't have any, just say so. As you say, "the only thing required is honesty".
The only odd thing about the process seems to be your response to it.

Reply 15

Original post
by 2WheelGod
"In my view, everything should could be reduced to two tick boxes: do you accept these points?"
They are not asking "do you accept and comply with the BBC's employee and diversity policies?". They are asking "as a business, what are your employee and diversity policies?"
If you don't have any, just say so. As you say, "the only thing required is honesty".
The only odd thing about the process seems to be your response to it.

There is nothing like this is any other country. Some of you in here misunderstand me. While i agree with the sentiment, I think it will have the opposite of its intended effect by verifying many things for many people. But it is very important to reach these people. To reach me as a person is another matter. I may not be as important as they are. I think this is strategically wrong from the point of view of a person who agrees with the sentiment.

Reply 16

Original post
by AMac86
That's not GDPR, that's separate and specific cookie registration.
It's not for show - the explanation and prompt lets you opt-in to tracking if you want to, OR just the necessary cookies for the website to function, OR having been explained how the website cookies work, you can choose not to use the website at all. That's the practical function. In the days before cookie legislation, you didn't know how websites were using your data at all.

Nothing has changed in this regards. Try searching for shoes online, and check how long you are stalked by shoes . It is still there, even with all the pop ups and all the fancy talk. It will also get worse. Because AI will create a difference between consumers and these big companies, which puts us at a huge disadvantage. They may apply these new tools in marketing. There will be very few ways for a PC with limited CPU or any ordinary consumer to respond to this. I think AI will push the centralization even further. But this is a slight digression, sorry. Because there are those who can use AI for many bad purposes, the ordinary consumer can never benefit fully from dramatic increases in computing power. Only those that are monitored and regulated will benefit.

Reply 17

Original post
by michaelhw
There is nothing like this is any other country. Some of you in here misunderstand me. While i agree with the sentiment, I think it will have the opposite of its intended effect by verifying many things for many people. But it is very important to reach these people. To reach me as a person is another matter. I may not be as important as they are. I think this is strategically wrong from the point of view of a person who agrees with the sentiment.

What do you mean there is nothing like this is any other country? This sort of stuff is completely standard in supplier onboarding for large corporates across the UK, Europe and US.

if you don't want to see cookie targeted advertising then you can refuse tracking cookies on the websites you visit and delete any existing cookies through your browser.

Reply 18

Original post
by michaelhw
There is nothing like this is any other country. Some of you in here misunderstand me. While i agree with the sentiment, I think it will have the opposite of its intended effect by verifying many things for many people. But it is very important to reach these people. To reach me as a person is another matter. I may not be as important as they are. I think this is strategically wrong from the point of view of a person who agrees with the sentiment.

How long have you spent in France?

Reply 19

Original post
by michaelhw
Nothing has changed in this regards. Try searching for shoes online, and check how long you are stalked by shoes . It is still there, even with all the pop ups and all the fancy talk. It will also get worse. Because AI will create a difference between consumers and these big companies, which puts us at a huge disadvantage. They may apply these new tools in marketing. There will be very few ways for a PC with limited CPU or any ordinary consumer to respond to this. I think AI will push the centralization even further. But this is a slight digression, sorry. Because there are those who can use AI for many bad purposes, the ordinary consumer can never benefit fully from dramatic increases in computing power. Only those that are monitored and regulated will benefit.

Given I've accepted cookies and ad tracking Id be disappointed if I didnt get Jeffery West adverts. That's what I want.

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